WHERE IS ALL THE POWDER

[Brooke]

I'm getting totally discussed with this. Heck, this is America. Once you make up your mind that your going to do something, like I did about 6 months ago with reloading, you do it. This issue of powder is ridiculous.

I bought 1 pound of Accurate 5 when I first got my re loader back in November. It was a lot of fun to reload and shoot, but I haven't seen anymore. I did by some IMR PB a few times, and have enough to last for a couple of months. It feeds great and seems to work well, but if you use the published loads in 9mm it won't even cycle my XDM 5.25. I've worked up to about 3.7gr, which is way over max, and it still wont quite make minimum power factor. I love the powder, but that max load thing has me a little worried.

I've placed back orders for Accurate No 5 and Solo 1000, but I have no idea if these will ever come in. When I placed the order they said they had back orders that had been on the books for almost a year.

I would really appreciate any insight on how to get the stuff. I assume someone is getting it, and I'm just not doing it right. If not, then I guess there are a lot of guys out there that ordered big back when when it was available, and they're going to be disappointed when they start shopping around.

I have read some explanations about supply chain, and how some shortages far up the chain can hold things up. I work in manufacturing, and understand how companies wouldn't want to spend a bunch of cash to set up production that will last a while and then fade away when everything settles down. I get all that, but I would still like some independent verification on what's going on, because nobody ive read seems to have any facts. I can tell you when my company doesn't supply our customers with good quality product on time, the customers will be crawling all over our facility demanding to know what's going on, and exactly what we are going to do to fix it. And let me tell you, changes are made real fast.

Who's getting the powder? Why don't I ever see pistol powder for sale on line? How long does this have to go on until the manufacturers do something about it. Perhaps the management of USPSA could look into this. I would assume they carry some weight, and could get answers. USPSA is an association, and association represent their members. I work in an ISO rated manufacturing facility, and there are lot's of consultants you can hire that will figure out exactly where the problem is. Just take them to the manufacturers and ask them what's going on? What's their plan to fix the problem? And whether or not they are dedicated to providing supplies to our sport? If they start dancing around the questions, let the consultants push them a little. At some point there should be enough information to write an in depth report on the subject.

I don't think its some big conspiracy. It's just that there is a demand, and the customers should know what the manufacturers are doing to meet the demand. Yes it may be a few nuts out there buying everything up, but they're building awesome ranges where I live, and more and more people are taking classes and shooting in matches in large numbers. I would think that the sport is growing.. And we need supplies.

If a vendor would commit themselves to meeting the needs of competitive shooters they would have many loyal customers.

Sorry for the rant. I've been wanting to get that one off my chest for a long time. Tell me where I'm wrong. I usually am.

This components thing is nuts. It's hard enough to work all day, have time with the family, reload and practice enough to have fun and improve. Then throw in having to scrounge for powder. It's pretty frustrating.

There must be a way to have a steady supply, but I just haven't found it. I really don't hear that much about it in these forums. I would appreciate any help. Thanks.

Myself I found a local gunbuilder that sells reloading supplies. He's got a good relationship with his distributors. At first it was you couldn't get primers, but now primers are available everywhere.

Now the problem is powder. My guy told me he was talking to his distributor the other day. He's been in the business for over 40yrs and has never seen it so bad. He says it looks like it's going to get worse.

Just4FunLP - do you ever make it down to the Tampa Bay area? I can ask what he's got. I don't think he has any Titegroup any more cuz last time I saw him about 3 weeks ago a buddy and me bought his last 2 8lb jugs of TG. I do have a couple of 1lb jars of TG. To help a fellow floridian, I can let you have one of them if you ever are in the area.

I think I found out why. I was told by a family friend who works in"northern Va", that the UN ban on imports may be a huge part of the problem. Many of the powders we use come from Europe, VV, a lot of ramshot, ( I like silhouette) and many others marketed by American companies are actually made in other countries. The ban drastically cut the amount allowed into the U.S. I'm not sure this is true, but I wouldn't put it past the people running this country.

Yeah, it must be the politicians fault. Horse manure. It's people's fault for stocking up on years worth of components. I've never seen a community as paranoid as the gun owning community. Everybody is out to get you! Poor, poor group.

Look in the freakin' mirror. You are the problem. Vow to go two months without a single purchase and they will be begging you to buy something.

[JLeeCZ]

We are part of the problem, me included. Buying powders that we don't need out of fear that it will be our only chance to secure some. I just got into handloading first of the year. I have 2 lbs Power Pistol, 5 lbs of AA7, 2 lbs of Unigue, a buttload of 700X, and backorders that I recently started canceling once I saw how much I had ordered. What I have will last quite a while. I have enough 700X powder to load around 25,000 .45 and the other powders for maybe 12,000 9mm. I don't need more. I need to load and shoot. No more impulsive powder buys. Well, maybe a pound or 2 of PP, IF I see it on the shelf.

Edited April 1, 2014 by JLeeCZ

[Laughingdog]

IMR PB is good stuff. I have an old load data PDF from IMR and the loads are 4.9 for 124 Rem MC- it is a compressed load. The new data has it very low. No one seems to be able to get their guns to cycle at the current load data posted on the site. If you have a chrono it is worth working up to PF loads with this powder. I have bunch of load recipes for PB but I am out of town and won't get back home tip late in the week.

.

FWIW I use 147gr Bayous at 3.2 of PB with 1.140 OAL. 132 PF. My #1 pet load.

3.2g with 147g Berry's RN with 1.155" OAL gives me about 130PF. Great load...unless you're shooting an indoor match with flashlight stages.

I also run 4.1g with 125g Bayous at the same OAL, and get 133PF.

I bought a bunch of PB because it was what was available. Ended up liking it a lot. That and HS-6 are the powders I use for match loads now.

[Just4FunLP]

I'm getting totally discussed with this. Heck, this is America. Once you make up your mind that your going to do something, like I did about 6 months ago with reloading, you do it. This issue of powder is ridiculous.

I bought 1 pound of Accurate 5 when I first got my re loader back in November. It was a lot of fun to reload and shoot, but I haven't seen anymore. I did buy some IMR PB a few times, and have enough to last for a couple of months. It feeds great and seems to work well, but if you use the published loads in 9mm it won't even cycle my XDM 5.25. I've worked up to about 3.7gr, which is way over max, and it still wont quite make minimum power factor. I love the powder, but that max load thing has me a little worried.

I've placed back orders for Accurate No 5 and Solo 1000, but I have no idea if these will ever come in. When I placed the order they said they had back orders that had been on the books for almost a year.

I would really appreciate any insight on how to get the stuff. I assume someone is getting it, and I'm just not doing it right. If not, then I guess there are a lot of guys out there that ordered big back when when it was available, and they're going to be disappointed when they start shopping around.

I have read some explanations about supply chain, and how some shortages far up the chain can hold things up. I work in manufacturing, and understand how companies wouldn't want to spend a bunch of cash to set up production that will last a while and then fade away when everything settles down. I get all that, but I would still like some independent verification on what's going on, because nobody i've read seems to have any facts. I can tell you when my company doesn't supply our customers with good quality product on time, the customers will be crawling all over our facility demanding to know what's going on, and exactly what we are going to do to fix it. And let me tell you, changes are made real fast.

Who's getting the powder? Why don't I ever see pistol powder for sale on line? How long does this have to go on until the manufacturers do something about it. Perhaps the management of USPSA could look into this. I would assume they carry some weight, and could get answers. USPSA is an association, and associations represent their members. I work in an ISO rated manufacturing facility, and there are lot's of consultants you can hire that will figure out exactly where the problem is. Just take them to the manufacturers and ask them what's going on? What's their plan to fix the problem? And whether or not they are dedicated to providing supplies to our sport? If they start dancing around the questions, let the consultants push them a little. At some point there should be enough information to write an in depth report on the subject.

I don't think its a big conspiracy. It's just that there is a demand, and the customers should know what the manufacturers are doing to meet the demand. Yes it may be a few guys out there buying everything up, but they're building awesome ranges where I live, and more and more people are taking classes and shooting in matches in large numbers. I would think that the sport is growing.. And we need supplies.

If a vendor would commit themselves to meeting the needs of competitive shooters they would have many loyal customers.

Sorry for the rant. I've been wanting to get that one off my chest for a long time. Tell me where I'm wrong. I usually am.

This components thing is nuts. It's hard enough to work all day, have time with the family, reload and practice enough to have fun and improve. Then throw in having to scrounge for powder. It's pretty frustrating.

There must be a way to have a steady supply, but I just haven't found it. I really don't hear that much about it in these forums. I would appreciate any help. Thanks.

About this post....

I wrote this post late in the evening as I was dozing off to sleep. The next morning I thought about some of the things I wrote, and now wish I would have worded it a little differently.

First. I suggested that the management of USPSA could do more to look into this issue, and that this is what associations do. I really don't know anything about the roles and responsibilities of the USPSA. I don't know how they are structured, or anything about their resources. I do know that they manage my favorite sport, and I appreciate it.

Second. I suggested that somehow we could pressure these companies to increase production. Probably a stupid idea. Actually, I'm a free market kind of guy, so maybe I should start my own powder company... Anyone want to go in with me....??

Overall it was kind of a long stupid rant. I promise not to do it again until I run completely out. Hopefully it won't come to this.

Thanks for the feedback. I read every word.

[DWFAN]

snip...., so maybe I should start my own powder company... Anyone want to go in with me....??

I thought the same thing.. but it's not that easy. "Rumor" is, that the company who makes HP-38 and Win 231 hasnt even received the base ingredient to manufacture these powders (and probably others) in over 6 months. Im sure most are running at 100% capacity, but if this really is true, increasing procudtion of powder doesnt seem to be feasible.

So who knows how far up the chain this supply issue goes.

[ummm]

snip...., so maybe I should start my own powder company... Anyone want to go in with me....??

I thought the same thing.. but it's not that easy. "Rumor" is, that the company who makes HP-38 and Win 231 hasnt even received the base ingredient to manufacture these powders (and probably others) in over 6 months. Im sure most are running at 100% capacity, but if this really is true, increasing procudtion of powder doesnt seem to be feasible.

So who knows how far up the chain this supply issue goes.

And also, what happens to the millions of dollars you commit if the whole process starts working again, and suddenly powder is plentiful? By the time your company is alive and kicking, shooters have stopped hoarding because they're used to a plentiful supply again, so you're just a new company with no reputation against all the traditional powerhouses.

[MrVvrroomm]

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=404233857

$505 plus $48 shipping for 8lbs of Winchester 231.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=404539950

Titegroup ending tomorrow.

[redmist10]

I have been able to buy pretty much every type of powder I have wanted in the past six months (load 9mm, .223/5.56 and 300BLK) either on-line or at local gun shops.

Lol, but he won't tell you where he's at!

[redmist10]

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=404233857

$505 plus $48 shipping for 8lbs of Winchester 231.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=404539950

Titegroup ending tomorrow.

Now that's disgusting....and is why this crap continues. $500 for 8lbs?!!!...everyone in that sale should be ashamed.

[ghost21]

I have been able to buy pretty much every type of powder I have wanted in the past six months (load 9mm, .223/5.56 and 300BLK) either on-line or at local gun shops. I have purchased these:

• Vihtavuori N320
• Hodgon Titegroup
• Alliant E3
• Hodgon Clays
• Accurate Arms #2 (although haven't seen any recently)
• Accurate Arms #5 (although haven't seen any recently)
• Accurate Arms #7 (although haven't seen any recently)
• Winchester 231
• Reloader 15
• Accurate 2230 (although haven't seen any recently)
• IMR XBR8208
• Vihtavuori N133
• Vihtavuori N135
• Accurate TAC (although haven't seen any recently)
• Accurate 1680 (although haven't seen any recently)
• Hodgon 110

I regularly see these locally (even in the past week) although I don't use them:

• WST
• WSF
• IMR PB
• Winchester 296
• Winchester 748
• All sorts of Alliant (1 and 8 pounders) showed up recently.
• All sorts of IMR powders (mostly 1 pounders)

And a whole bunch I am forgetting.

Sorry to say I'm not one of those people that can sit in front of the pc every free minute I have. Other things to do(family, friends, work, yard work, garden) the list goes on! By the time I do get to sit at the PC, which btw Is most of the time around 8PM ,Everything has already been bought up!

[3djedi]

Well, now that some lunatic has gone on a shooting spree the antigun agenda will be front and center. Good luck getting powder now!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[Red Ryder]

damn, where do you live?

NE Ohio

when can we meet up? I'll be coming from Pittsburgh!

[Red Ryder]

damn, where do you live?

NE Ohio

w

damn, where do you live?

NE Ohio

[Red Ryder]

So excited I studdered!

[Red Ryder]

I have been able to buy pretty much every type of powder I have wanted in the past six months (load 9mm, .223/5.56 and 300BLK) either on-line or at local gun shops. I have purchased these:

• Vihtavuori N320
• Hodgon Titegroup
• Alliant E3
• Hodgon Clays
• Accurate Arms #2 (although haven't seen any recently)
• Accurate Arms #5 (although haven't seen any recently)
• Accurate Arms #7 (although haven't seen any recently)
• Winchester 231
• Reloader 15
• Accurate 2230 (although haven't seen any recently)
• IMR XBR8208
• Vihtavuori N133
• Vihtavuori N135
• Accurate TAC (although haven't seen any recently)
• Accurate 1680 (although haven't seen any recently)
• Hodgon 110

I regularly see these locally (even in the past week) although I don't use them:

• WST
• WSF
• IMR PB
• Winchester 296
• Winchester 748
• All sorts of Alliant (1 and 8 pounders) showed up recently.
• All sorts of IMR powders (mostly 1 pounders)

And a whole bunch I am forgetting.

WAIT! I have been looking on the net 6 to 8 times a day for the last year and what little pistol powder that does show available sells out in minutes. I call BS!

[RDA]

I have been able to buy pretty much every type of powder I have wanted in the past six months (load 9mm, .223/5.56 and 300BLK) either on-line or at local gun shops.

Lol, but he won't tell you where he's at!

Post #24

damn, where do you live?

NE Ohio

when can we meet up? I'll be coming from Pittsburgh!

I sold some 1680 to a guy from Pittsburgh late last year. What are you looking for exactly?

I have been able to buy pretty much every type of powder I have wanted in the past six months (load 9mm, .223/5.56 and 300BLK) either on-line or at local gun shops. I have purchased these:

• Vihtavuori N320
• Hodgon Titegroup
• Alliant E3
• Hodgon Clays
• Accurate Arms #2 (although haven't seen any recently)
• Accurate Arms #5 (although haven't seen any recently)
• Accurate Arms #7 (although haven't seen any recently)
• Winchester 231
• Reloader 15
• Accurate 2230 (although haven't seen any recently)
• IMR XBR8208
• Vihtavuori N133
• Vihtavuori N135
• Accurate TAC (although haven't seen any recently)
• Accurate 1680 (although haven't seen any recently)
• Hodgon 110

I regularly see these locally (even in the past week) although I don't use them:

• WST
• WSF
• IMR PB
• Winchester 296
• Winchester 748
• All sorts of Alliant (1 and 8 pounders) showed up recently.
• All sorts of IMR powders (mostly 1 pounders)

And a whole bunch I am forgetting.

WAIT! I have been looking on the net 6 to 8 times a day for the last year and what little pistol powder that does show available sells out in minutes. I call BS!

Well, I was willing to help until you called me a liar. What do you want to see receipts for? I have all of them.

[Red Ryder]

RDA. It's all in jest. I ment no offense. I will always buy available N320. I do agree with you somewhat. There is powder out there. You just have to know where to look and get lucky. You have to have a list of "go to" powders and buy what is available. And again, I will always buy N320 when I come across it. I wish they sold it in 20lb kegs!

Edited April 3, 2014 by Red Ryder

[RDA]

RDA. It's all in jest. I ment no offense. I will always buy available N320. I do agree with you somewhat. There is powder out there. You just have to know where to look and get lucky. You have to have a list of "go to" powders and buy what is available. And again, I will always buy N320 when I come across it. I wish they sold it in 20lb kegs!

I bought 16 lbs of N320 in October 2013. I had a back order for it at another vendor for 16 lbs that I cancelled shortly thereafter as I couldn't afford another 16 lbs at that time. I am sure another customer of theirs appreciated that.

[3djedi]

I guess if the politicians would quit with trying to ban guns there wouldn't be such a run on guns and supplies.....People who never owned a gun in their lives went out and bought AR's last year because the government was trying so hard to ban assault weapons.

[ChrisW]

I called Hodgdon today and they are still making Win 231 as fast as they can and shipping it out. They said that a lot of the dealers took back orders and they think they are being filled before the rest of us can get it. Hopefully that means it will be a short time and available to the rest of us.

[Pinka]

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=404233857

$505 plus $48 shipping for 8lbs of Winchester 231.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=404539950

Titegroup ending tomorrow.

Now that's disgusting....and is why this crap continues. $500 for 8lbs?!!!...everyone in that sale should be ashamed.

Why would you buy powder for $65 a pound, you can buy self defense ammo for that cost!

[Red Ryder]

I called Hodgdon today and they are still making Win 231 as fast as they can and shipping it out. They said that a lot of the dealers took back orders and they think they are being filled before the rest of us can get it. Hopefully that means it will be a short time and available to the rest of us.

Of course they would not tell you, "We're filling our lucrative business and government contracts first before you peeons get any!"

[deerassassin22]

^^^ Well I Can see GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS we wouldn't be an effective military or police force if we had no bullets just sayin"

[UFO]

I am just about out of Clays for my .38 Short Colt load. But, today I scored an 8lb container of Clay Dot.................

[Outbreak]

Of course they would not tell you, "We're filling our lucrative business and government contracts first before you peeons get any!"

Well, contracts are contracts. If you had billions to spend on ammo, you'd probably insist you get preference on delivery, too.