Jake Di Vita

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About Jake Di Vita

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    A lifetime of training for just 10 seconds.
  • Birthday 11/07/1984

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    jjlamm8
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    http://www.jakedivita.com

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    Fenton, Michigan
  • Real Name
    Jake Di Vita

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  1. There is no question that the externally rotated shoulder position is the strongest, most stable, and safest position for that joint to occupy while in flexion. The position of the elbow usually follows the position of the shoulder. That being said, just adopting that position won't make you faster or more accurate. If you want to get faster and more accurate, you have to push yourself.
  2. If only it were that simple. Most people I know who don't sleep very much are sedentary or elderly. With the amount of activity I have if I sleep fewer than 8 hours a night for much longer than a few days I start getting dinged up in training and developing cold like symptoms. The problems almost always promptly go away when I start sleeping more again. Some of us actually need the 8 hours a night to recover and function at 100%. I tell people I train to sleep as much as they can without getting divorced or fired.
  3. Yeah absolutely. I figure for reloading at the beginning of movement to be effective, you need to have the reload completed within .5 or .6 of your last shot in position (this would probably be about .7 or .8 speed if you were to also reaquire the target and fire). You're making the right decision with what you know based on an assessment of your own skills. You may not ever change from the manner that it's best for you do execute now, and that's fine.
  4. Yeah even when moving directly uprange. I think a big part of what makes reloading at the beginning faster for me is the faster target acquisition at the end of the movement since the reload is already out of the way. If I'm executing correctly, I complete the reload on my first step backward, then I can turn and run.
  5. Testing both extensively is the only way you will know what is best for you. I am in the apparent minority being faster reloading at the start of the movement rather than the end of it.
  6. I'd consider tucking your support thumb down on top of your hand. The only reason mine extends outwards is because of the thumb rest I use. The really important stuff about your grip is the stuff that can't be seen in the picture. How much force you're applying and where you're applying that force.
  7. Don't compromise your shoulder position by letting your elbow flare out. Remember that the body is a system of systems. Everything works together. When you put your shoulder into a crappy position (in this case that crappy position is internal rotation in flexion), it also compromises the stability of the joints upstream and downstream. Search for Kelly Starrett videos on youtube about shoulder position and ways we can perform self maintenance when joints start acting pissed off.
  8. Yeah my fingers look abnormally short in that picture lol. I don't like camming my wrist forward, I think that puts more downward force on the gun than forward force. The forward force is coming more from my arms, shoulders, and forward lean. I'm not pushing in necessarily, I'm torquing up and in. All of the inward pressure is coming from the meat around my thumbs as a consequence of torquing in from the wrists. We can trace this back to leverage being about getting most of the pressure as close to the barrel axis as possible (which is another way of looking at being high on the gun).
  9. Yeah there is. I joined USPSA in 2002 when Brian's book was really the bible on practical shooting. I spent many years working on being physically relaxed while shooting and I got pretty decent even making GM. I took some time off and turned my focus towards learning about the body and fundamentals of human movement and over years using what I learned morphed my style into what I use today. Personally I get more out of Brian's relaxed methodology when I look at it exclusively from the perspective of being mentally relaxed rather than any type of physical relaxation. It was Brian talking about how he and Rob threw out the collective dogma of shooting and experimented with everything that spurred me to do the same. I owe a lot to him because of that, but we do have conflicting opinions in some areas of technique...which is fine. Maybe my style wouldn't have worked well for him in the same way being physically relaxed is far from the most efficient method for me.
  10. Here are a couple pictures of my grip. Now that I'm looking at them, they're a bit washed out from the sun. Let me know if you can see what you were looking for, if not I'll get someone else to take pictures of it instead of balancing my phone on my squat rack.
  11. Sure John, I'll get one as soon as I can. Remember that I don't expect your body to mirror mine. You properly using the fundamentals I briefly discussed will probably look at least a little different than me. We all have different body anthropometry and different strengths/weaknesses. The important thing is understanding the fundamentals behind recoil management and applying them in the way that best fits you. That's great stuff from Rob. I'm with him on all his points.
  12. Thanks. Please let me know if you have any questions. No problem, hope it helps. Go into it knowing it's going to take a long time to mold this to fit you. The general rule of thumb that I use for myself is that if I want to make a large scale change in my technique, it's going to take a solid year or more of work for it to really take solid hold.
  13. Hi John, I'd be happy to. First off I want to say that I'm not hung up on anything I do. I don't think I'm superior and I'm willing to change anything I do if I find something that works better, which is how I got to where I am right now. As to your question about leverage, we gain leverage on the gun by being as high as possible and also as forward as possible with our grip pressure. If it was realistic to hold a pistol directly under the end of the barrel, that would give us the most leverage possible on the gun. Since that obviously isn't realistic we have to make some concessions on leverage, but it provides a map as to what we're after. What I do took a long time for me to learn to do well because there is a lot going on when I grip the gun. I wanted my grip to satisfy 3 criteria. The first is to have as much leverage as realistically possible. The second is to minimize movement of the gun. My experience is the less the gun moves in recoil, the faster it will come back to the target and the closer it will be to where it lifted from in recoil. The third is I want to be able to keep the gun on target through less than perfect trigger control. I'll get into more detail on this part in a bit. Stance obviously also plays a large part in this, but this will be long as it is. I'll address stance in another post if you wish. The setup of my hands on the gun are very similar to a lot of other shooters. I want my strong hand to be as high as possible on the beaver tail. I want my weak hand index finger to be wedged in the corner of the trigger guard and my strong hand. One small detail about my weak hand is that I reach my fingers so that my first knuckle on my index finger is on the right side of the trigger guard (left hand is my support hand), then I heavily squeeze my hand and that first knuckle on my index finger acts as a stop against the trigger guard. You should see the freakshow callus that I've developed there. This gives me a good bit of extra friction that helps to ensure my grip doesn't shift while shooting. From that point after I've established the position of both my hands, I torque inward towards the barrel axis from my wrists. The reason why I do it from my wrists and not my shoulders (ala Vogel) is because torquing from the shoulder would put my shoulder into an internally rotated position in flexion, which is an unstable shoulder position compared to external rotation in flexion. In general, the most bio mechanically stable position for the body to occupy is also the strongest and safest position (funny how that works huh?). The marker for this is elbow position. High and outside elbow in shoulder flexion is internally rotated, low and inside elbow in shoulder flexion is externally rotated. The inward pressure near the barrel axis acts as a way to increase leverage on the gun. Now we get to driving the gun forward. What I'm looking for is tightness in the kinetic chain used for shooting. If you do a push up or a bench press then you pause, squeeze the involved musculature, and hold a little past 3/4 extension, this is close to the tension and extension that I want in my arms. So effectively I'm always applying force on the gun away from me and towards the target in the same way you apply force on a barbell away from your body when you bench press. The reason for this is two part. The first part is I want to be able to effectively transfer recoil from the gun through my shoulders through my torso through my legs into the ground. Tight musculature transfers force much better than loose musculature. The second part is I want to put enough energy into pointing the gun where I want that errors in trigger control have a minimal effect on moving the gun. This part is tricky and where people will tend to struggle. Where this came from is the understanding that you will never have perfect trigger control on every shot in a match. So if I'm executing a shot where I don't pull the trigger perfectly, the energy I'm putting into pushing the gun towards the target largely overcomes the unwanted force on the gun from the mistake in pulling the trigger. That doesn't mean that you can just pull the trigger like a monkey for every shot, you should still be trying to pull the trigger straight to the rear of the gun. The benefit is small to medium errors in pulling the trigger no longer cause the same degree of problems that they would if I were just lazily holding the gun in front of my face. The trigger weight on my gun is around 3 pounds, I yank the crap out of the trigger using way more force than necessary for 99% of the shots in matches because I want to pull the trigger quickly and usually shoot around 95% of the points. Couple things to touch on here. You can successfully push the gun down to manage recoil, but if you start that process too early it becomes the dreaded flinch. The way I get around this is what I mentioned earlier. I don't push the gun down, I push the gun towards the target as that is where I want it to return in recoil. Since I've organized my body to always be applying force towards the target the timing of it no longer matters. There is no dip. I never have to initiate recoil compensation because it is a natural component of how I hold the gun. I wrote this kind of quickly while being in a fog from this nasty persistent cold I'm fighting. If I didn't do a good job explaining something please ask and I'd love to elaborate. Hope that helps.
  14. I'd have to see the tool you are using for measurement to give you any decent feedback. What would be the best instrument to test is if you could put pressure sensors around a mock up of a grip so the pressure from every angle could be measured. Obviously there would be a lot of work and probably cost in setting that up.
  15. Ok, let me be more specific. What is your actual name? Or are you for some reason unwilling to attach your name to your comments to me? You're cherry picking and taking my responses to another person who made some rather ridiculous claims out of context. The way this started is someone recommended what Ron teaches. I responded by saying that I don't think letting recoil happen is the most effective way to shoot. In response to saying that a few people came out of the woodwork and said the equivalent of "That's what Ron does, he's great, you don't understand". That is why I posted the excerpts that you quoted. I'll reiterate my stance on Ron. I've never met the man. I think he's a very good shooter, I'm sure he's a very nice guy, and I believe that he's probably a good instructor. The idea of letting recoil happen does not make logical sense to me either theoretically or practically. I've detailed why in depth in many areas of this forum, but if you want me to consolidate my position here for you to read, I would be glad to. If you have something in writing that you think adequately explains your position on grip and recoil management I'm all for reading through it and giving you a comprehensive response and we can restart with what you'll hopefully see as rational discourse. Here are a series of short responses from this thread to the only person that was willing to try to give an explanation. You must have glossed over this, but a response to some of what I said here would be a good start. You aren't trying to argue or make petty objections? I may be willing to buy that if you hadn't just leapt to the conclusion that I can't back anything that I'm saying up. You keep saying I need to prove my statements. I'm asking you what do you need to see to satisfy your criteria for proof? Do you need to see match results? What qualifies as acceptable match results to you? Do you need to see me run certain drills? Which drills and what hit factors are we looking at? The devil is in the details. Don't just give me obscure "standards"....tell me exactly what you need to see and make sure you don't try to give me standards that you don't hold yourself to. You may find that in the 20 years I've been shooting competitively that I've already satisfied your criteria. No I'm not confusing you with a travel agency. I thought we were putting our money where our mouths are after your initial post to me. If you're so confident that I'm full of shit, you have nothing to lose. Since I know I'm not full of shit, I'm upping the stakes. Once again, I just wanted (and still want) to have a conversation. Don't forget, you initiated this challenge about my ability. I was challenging the principles behind what you teach. That's not going to work. I don't even own an iron sighted gun. I compete in the Open division (if you didn't know that, you must literally have not looked into anything about me whatsoever). What other matches are you attending? We can work out a handicap for you for comparison purposes if you aren't going to shoot Open.