How much advantage is there in a red dot

[rupie]

I am at a cross road, I am proficient with iron sights, when I shoot production, do pretty good, but I have 2 open guns a SLC glock 35 that I put iron sights on and a new SLC glock 17 9mm major with a c-more. I am slow with a dot but enjoy shooting it particulatly on the hard shots where a dot is like a video game. My dilima is I have to decide if I want to spend the time to learn the dot. I started last season shooting production and switched to open with a dot then converted the open gun back to irons and did a lot better. I am fairly fast and accurate with irons. Is the dot that big of a advantage to make it worth the effort to learn how to find it.

Also I shoot some IDPA so I don't want to give up on irons completely. Can I justify putting irons on my 9mm major? or do I just give up and start learning the dot?

[blkbrd]

Learn the dot.

It will be quite a bit faster in the long run, and once you get your draw and recoil tracking where the dot is second nature it will speed up your iron shooting also.

[boz1911]

It takes a little while to "always" have the dot. Not having the dot will kill you during a COF. During those times you'll will wish you had the irons back. With a S_I type gun there is not really any reference to aim with other than the dot. Commit to learning perfect presentation and you will always the dot.

[calishootr]

I remember an interview w/ TGO and he was asked basically the same question(this was back when the dots were juuuust coming out) and he said there was not one situation that the dot wasnt 'better' it made the hard shots easier, and the easy shots?? well nuff said

what a lot of people who transition to the dot have problems with, is finding the dot, its draw....fish forthe sight, shoot...they feel they were so much faster w/ iron sights...the problem lies in presentation, whateverthey were doing w/ irons isnt translating well to the dot, rtpically its the sight focus itself, w/ irons your focus is on the front sight(or should be) and with a dot the focus shifts to the target, then just superimpose the dot on the place you want to shoot

I shot open for 12+ yrs and then went back to limited, and had to re-learn how to watch the sights

practice practice presentation, till you can draw and presentthe dot where you want it withoutthe 'fish forthe sights'

[Al Capizzo]

Spending some time with a dot sighted gun WILL make you a better iron sight shooter. Once you get used to the dot there are a lot of nuances of gun handling, shot calling, trigger speed, etc, that you become aware of, and that awareness can transfer to iron sight shooting as well.

[nphd2000]

Where is Bob Vogel when you need him. He should chime in on this one.

I enjoy shooting a "Dot" gun for steel although I do it once or twice a year. I plan to spend alot more time this year to realy learn "dot zen" (to know where it is and where it will be). I do believe it will help with irons in the long run like the previous posters have said. It is all about presentation, if the gun is where it is suppose to be the dot or sights will be there (I hope/think).

[BSeevers]

Do you know any Open M's that don't use a dot? There is your answer. There is one guy I am sure that doesn't but maybe look at the people who win for the answer.

Ill take a dot over a comp and even hi-cap. If I have to just have one Open feature

Edited December 24, 2009 by BSeevers

[ExtremeShot]

+1 on what was said above about practicing to find the dot. Like everything else, it takes practice. Also, what kind of dot are you using? I found that those little tactical red dots are very hard to see and harder to acquire than a standard C-More. Get a standard C-More and put it on a mount, not the slide. This might make the difference for you.

Darren

[CocoBolo]

I'm in the same boat with you. I shoot limited its fun but I like to be higher up the list. I started shooting Open and practiced dry fired with the dot till my arms ached. However in every match I would lose the dot bending around something or down thru a port etc. I also started clipping no shoot heads up close and all the other stuff that goes with the std C-More mounts.

I got a Quinn mount and did no practice and still have not done any and I have dot all the time and I can aim at the point I want to shoot and hit it.

In all combined results you are mixed with the open guns, on a good day with Limited I can hit 50%, on a good day with my open gun I'm hitting 70%. When the shots are tight and long and there is a lot of steel, those little 4" plates on posts the open gun has the advantage. When its up close and wide open where you are point blasting the Limited gun has the advantage. Now some will argue that point but it will take you some time before you can point shoot an open gun with proficency after almost a year I can do it. My best finish in open has be 3rd, best finish in limted 18th, local matches of 40 or more shooters.

I still love my Limited gun, but I'm starting to like the open some, but my favorite it the SS just not very fast with it. If your shooting for the fun of it shoot what is the most fun and don't look back.

[rupie]

Alright dot it is, time to start dry firing!

thanks guys

[JThompson]

Alright dot it is, time to start dry firing!

thanks guys

The deal with the dot is it allows you to only focus on the targets, you don't have to go from target to sight target to sight. It really helps us guys will older eyes that do not refocus quickly. You may want to cover the back of your c-more lens with something opaque. This will help train you to stay target focused. A lot of iron shooters have issues with a dot because they are treating it like and iron in that they pull their vision back to the dot. The other issue is they keep their eyes looking through the reticle and don't snap them to the next target. Covering the back of the cmore will help you overcome both of these issues. Try it.

JT

[G-ManBart]

I haven't read any of the other responses, but the dot is the most important part of an Open gun. I'm absolutely convinced that maybe 75% of Open shooters would score just as well without a comp on their gun....they're not really shooting fast enough to take advantage of the comp. The same can't be said of a dot...without it, they'd be toast. R,

[XD Niner]

I shot iron sights for quite a while before going to Open and a C-More. As JT said, the dot is great for us folks with older eyes or if your eye sight is bad as is mine. I need prescription glasses with the right lens focused at the extended arm sight length and the left focused at infinity. Even then, while the front iron sight is in focus for me the target is very blurry if more than about 10 yards away. I don't even try to see where I hit using my right eye if the target is more than five yards away. Using my left (non-dominant) eye is a poor substitute for longer range binocular vision.

I'm able to use my normal bi-focal prescription when I shoot the dot. This makes it much easier to see the target in focus (as you should with a dot) and to see my hits out to at least 20 yards when scoring the targets. I'm also able to call my shots a lot more accurately. However, as others have said it does take a month or two of practice to feel really comfortable with it.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I have just started shooting open and had a problem seeing the dot with the old mount I had on my STI. I switched to the Quinn II and I can use the slide like my Limited pistol. I can index off of the slide. I can find the dot quicker as well. I am also learning to use both eyes open again. My Glock G17 open/steel gun I have a slide mounted dot and I find it easy to shoot. I really think it does come down to practice like everything else. I believe you will like shooting open like I do once you get used to the dot. I have been told that shooting open will make you a better iron sight shooter from Larry White and friends Thanks, Eric

[RH45]

I think it took me 3-4 years to get to the point that I felt I was shooting my open gun pretty well, and then I thought I could improve it more, and put one of the sideways mounts on one of my open guns. I have more trouble finding/keeping the dot with that than I do with the standard mount. I actually shoot more limited, production, and single stack, than I do open, and thought that bringing the scope lower to the gun would help me.

[Neomet]

At the risk of piling on here I'll say that while the dot is the main advantage, even more than mag capacity or comp to an open gun, it is like every other aspect of the sport that needs to be practiced. When I got my first open gun I thought that would be the magic alpha locator. Not so much. Presentation with draws, around corners from low ports, all these required quite a bit of practice. Also a dot to your mind at least moves a lot more than iron sights. If you wait for it to sit as still as you think your irons are before you pull the trigger you will be losing a lot of time. Your irons are moving a lot more than you think but your mind just doesn't "read" it that way.

That being said there are things that can help your transition. A Quinn or Cheely mount will put the dot much closer to where you are used to sighting. A Limcat glare shield helped me immensely, as did going to a 8MOA dot.

I like shooting irons every once in a while but I think shooting a COF with a dot is just about the most fun I have ever had in this sport.

edited because I somehow managed to misspell both Quinn and Cheely in one sentence. Now that takes some talent..... :-(

Edited December 25, 2009 by Neomet

[CocoBolo]

Here is a dot story that tells it like it is. My youngest daughter came home from A&M College the other day and we wanted to spend some quality time together. What else she has never shot a gun of any kind before.

I put a Browning buck mark in her hands and she shot a few rounds at a target 5 yards down range not a single hit. After some effort and instruction she was finally on paper. A hundred rounds and it was time to shoot the Texas plate rack out at about 12 yards. Well it wasn't pretty but she would leave one or two with a 10 round mag.

I handed her my STI Competitor which has a Quinn on it and an STI 22LR conversion. I told her to put the dot in the middle of the plate she knocked them all down, course not as fast as I do but pretty good for a kid with a hundred rounds under he belt. She made a few runs with it and was very happy that she is now a great shot. Ok she looks on the table and wants to shoot my Briley also Quinn Equipped 38Super Comp, the kid blasts them with 38 Super, go figure. I hand her a 22lr Rifle with a 50 mm 3x9 she hits every time but keeps asking to shoot the STI with the Dot.

She shot up all the 22lr we brought about 1300 rounds all but 100 in the STI conversion.

The dot is a miracle you are instantly a great shot.

Edited December 25, 2009 by CocoBolo

[Team Amish 1]

I am making the switch to C-more currently, I have about one month and only three matches under my belt. My previous endavours were in Rev and Pro.

Since I'm basing my dryfire heavily on Mr. Anderson's drills and am also recording my partimes of the day in excel, I can literally see how times get a lot better and drills get more fluid once you develop a certain index. I am still getting used to the new setup but I can tell it's worth it. I believe dot is the way to go.

[the duck of death]

I use a slide mounted dot for the low index. That's coming along OK but weak hand is giving me fits.