Bear1142 Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 I recently put together a new modular AR for 3 gun competition that would let me shoot any division with the same rifle by simply changing the sighting system. One of the many JP parts I used was his adjustable gas block. I liked the idea of fine tuning the gas system to my load and reducing some of the rearward bolt inertia that contributes to the overall recoil. I had visions of a very soft shooting AR with just enough gas to lock the bolt back on an empty chamber. After adjusting the gas flow, I got exactly that, a soft shooting rifle. But it wasn't what I wanted I noticed the rifle shot softer, but it was slower and tracked worse than before. After several rounds I stopped and put up some new targets. While walking down range I started to realize what was happening. By retarding the gas flow, I had slowed down the bolt speed. Since the bolt came to the rear slower, it recoiled softer, but it also caused the recoil to spread out over a longer duration. The result was a rifle that shot softer, but was slower to recover. I went back and opened the gas block back up to normal operating flow and it started reacting normally again. I noticed a little harder recoil, but it was faster and tracked better. For me, it seemed the difference between shooting a 40 and a 45 in terms of recoil and tracking. There was nothing wrong with the JP gas block, it did exactly what it claims to do. I just didn't get the results I thought I would. Anybody else had this experience? Here's a pic of the new rifle. Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 I discovered the exact same thing Erik. I have one on my rifle too. I opened it up all the way and locktighted it in place. What scope is that? What is that funny looking mono-pod looking do-dad attached to the handguard?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear1142 Posted December 9, 2003 Author Share Posted December 9, 2003 Singlestack, The scope is a Weaver 1-3x20. "What is that funny looking mono-pod looking do-dad attached to the handguard??" Ahhh, we mock what we don't understand I'll have it with me at SR this month. Cy wanted to check out the scope. Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mig Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 "What is that funny looking mono-pod looking do-dad attached to the handguard??" - a crutch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 I found the same thing you did. Softer but slower. It is usefull if your ammo is pretty hot though. I think my main AR is wide open on the port right now. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Hi All, The JP adjustable gas block works best with the lighter alloy bolt carrier and shorter recoil spring option they call the JP Low Mass Operating System. I have the full on LMOS and it does work as you hoped it would for the heavier bolt carriers you are trying it with. The heavier steel bolt carriers need more gas to achieve the same speed, and the heavier return spring needed then adds an additional forward amount of impetus to the recoil as the heavy bolt is slammed back and forward. Some things function best as part of an entire system designed around each parts individual contribution to the effort. Heavy bolt and spring combo with less gas = lower bolt speed every time. I recommend the full on LMOS package if you are looking at achieving smoother & faster cycling together. Otherwise tuning hot loadings is all it's gonna do well for ya without the rest of the system. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Is that weird thing some kind of a ar-15 dil-doo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Sims Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Man Erik, I think you better take another picture without the vertical "tactical" thinga majiggy. You are just getting way too much abuse! (just had to use that tac word, since there are so many people fussing about it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glockster96 Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Is that weird thing some kind of a ar-15 dil-doo? LOL!! Looks like some sort of a "growth." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Is that weird thing some kind of a ar-15 dil-doo? I think Benny might be on to something here. It couldn't be a mono-pod, it is too short to clear the mag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERIC Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 From reading Erik's observations, it sounds like a useful device to adjust the rate of a full auto M16. Would you guys agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chp5 Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 What is that funny looking mono-pod looking do-dad attached to the handguard?? It's always fun to pick on the big guys . . . at a safe distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hey QuicksDraw! Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Is that a stalagtight or a stalacmite on that thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear1142 Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 Well, I'm certainly not above being the object of some good humor. Althought, I am reminded of certain historical moments in USPSA and how they are viewed now. 198(?)- The first compensator showed up. People laughed at it. Until a pistol with a comp. won the Nationals. Now you can't find an open gun without a comp. 1981(?) The first year TGO showed up with a 38 super instead of a 45. People laughed, until he won the Nationals. Then everybody had to have one. 19-(?) The year that BE showed up at the Bianchi cup with a dot scope. People laughed, until he won the Cup. Then everybody had to have one. 1990- Todd Jarrett wins the World shoot with a Aimpoint scope on his open gun. Now everbody has them on their open guns. 199(?)- TGO introduces USPSA to the 9x25 cartridge. The next revolution in Open guns. The 9x25 turns up everywhere. Some are still being shot today. 2001- 3-gun championship, It's learned that Bennie Cooley is using a Browning shotgun with some kind of mystical auto-load feature. It's now one of the more popular shotguns around. While my dates may be suspect, the point I'm trying to make is that things that seemed funny at the time are now regarded as commonplace. I'm sure there are just as many instances of failures, but at least they tried to be innovative. I would have thought the people on this board would have realized the importance of keeping an open mind with regard to technical innovations. We do not use or try new things because they are cool or have a high CDI factor, each and every piece of equipment has a specific reason or purpose. Every little bit of advantage gained helps the bottom line, and besides, the dill-doo thing has a bottle opener on the bottom and you know how hard those things are to find nowadays Again, we mock what we don't understand. Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mig Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Whatever you're smokin' . . . stop it. Considering that dil-doo a technical innvovation is a stretch but if you want that crutch then so be it. I think you'll place just fine with it or without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Will it leave a scab if you take it off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear1142 Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 As Mig correctly pointed out, this is not a technical innovation. I guess it would be more appropriate to call it an ergonomic innovation, but apparently ergonomics don't apply to shooting. I guess Mig will be replacing the following items on his firearms because he'd place the same without them, ERGO pistol grips on his AR and AK, The GAPPER plug on his AR, The special contoured and stippled grip for his STI from Jim Shanahan, The home-made foam tubing cheek rest on his AR, The slide stop thumb rest on his Open gun, ...need I go on Mig? Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Where can one find such a big dil-doo thingy? BTW...The new jp upper just arrived and the "Mig" even had a grin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mig Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Dang . . . a snappin' contest . . . OK . . . . You're right about innovations either technical or ergonomics. We all need (not a word you support) these items to fit our unique requirements. Some are good and some are just there because we think we need/want them. If you feel such items make you shoot better than go for it. I was trying to point out (not successfully) that you are a very skilled shooter and you'll do just fine with them or without them. Consider Project Whisper (another story and disagreement) – that would be a technical advance worthy of the history books. But I’m more surprised you were not pushing the sling (another story and disagreement). A side note, your setup is a direct copy of my setup (like you said) with a few exceptions. Copying is the most sincere form of flattery and you’re welcomed. And yes, please continue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Such a dildoo can be found at most of your friendly local adult shoppes. Some even take batteries but that disturbs ones sight picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hey QuicksDraw! Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 With that Dildie thing it looks for a good night of pleasure and pain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacMan Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 JP Adjustable gas block => Dildo thingy.....DRIFT alert!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear1142 Posted December 12, 2003 Author Share Posted December 12, 2003 Mig, Friends, Romans, Countymen, lend me your ears. I copied a setup that Mig came up with for 3 gun rifle, no...it's true. Many years ago, when 3 gun was in its infancy, Mig had many revolutionary ideas about setting up an AR for 3 gun. Many of his views were quite radical for the time and the soon scared the masses. His ideas were considered heresy by the Catholic Church and he was driven out. He took his revolutionary ideas to the Omish and he was shunned. He went to the Muslims, and was accepted as a brother, until they discovered he liked the other white meat, then he was run out. Finally, down on his luck, full of despair, he wandered into our midst. Our happy group of run & gun heretics, our politcally incorrect group that uses words like, tactical, shooting, confederation, upper A/B zones, and he was accepted for who he was. He flourished in the mazes of 40 rd. run & gun rifle stages with no shots over 10 yards and eventually attained God-like status. And I, one of his faithful disciples, spread his word as the gospel. Short barrel, light weight, AR's, with low powered optices are his word. Rolls of foam insulations, cut into pads are his pulpit. I thank the great Mig (or as his friends call him Miglit) every night and pray for the next 3 gun match to arrive. So I can meet new people and continue to spread the gospel according to Mig. In all seriousness, while it may not seem so, Mig and I are great friends and I owe much of what ever little success I have to him. His ideas and guidance in 3 gun have helped me tremendously over the years. Although he in not a top champion, or a recognized household name, he is a great resource for everything about AR's and 3 gun. I'm lucky he puts up with all my stupid questions and ideas. Kellyn- You're missing the point, the vibration is how I simulate my shooting on the move. Wow, talk about a thread drift, where's the moderator when you need him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Wow, talk about a thread drift, where's the moderator when you need him. Your 3-gun moderator (KellyN) is contibuting to the drift. The voo-doo dolls are coming out. What was this thread about, anyways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chp5 Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 What was this thread about, anyways? . . . so anyway . . . I'm in the market for a railed gas block. If the JP is best run full open for most applications - just like a non-adjustable - then I can go with a cheaper non-adjustable gas block. Any recommendations? I noticed that the DPMS model uses set screws instead of pins like a traditional sight base/gas block. Is this the case with most railed gas blocks? Wouldn't a pinned gas block be sturdier and also be easier to make sure it’s on straight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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