RangerTrace Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) I realize this is a competition shooting forum, but there are a lot of us who are full time LEO, along with a bunch of CHL holders. I would like to know what you think would be the best combination of parts, features and finish to build the perfect pistol for both carry and competition. When I say competition, I mean USPSA Limited Division. For me, I'm thinking: 40 S&W S_I frame/slide Short dust cover Lightened slide Bushing barrel Flat top serrated slide Ed Brown Safeties Steel FLGR Top Shelf trigger job and components Bomar style rear sight, F/O front sight dehorned for carry Stippled, reduced, double undercut grip (sanded just enough so it doesn't wear through shirts) Carry style mag well Black IonBond finish Tuned carry length mags What else? I really like the feal of the new SV signature grip, but the weight of the grip worries me for 8+ hours per day of carry. I know the aluminum is an option, but what about the durability of it? Edited November 11, 2009 by rangertrace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) Sounds like the gun Virgil built me...... Did you talk with him about doing something?? Edited November 11, 2009 by Seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Novak fixed sights, no holes in the slide just internal lightening, 3.5lb trigger, maybe the light rail frame. Other than that your list looks pretty good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 STI Tactical 4.15". Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I say use a lightened sight tracker barrel and the STI aluminum grip. Then you don't have any holes in the slide. Then it is exactly the gun I have from Matt. It weighs 36 oz empty with an SV magwell. The trigger is probably too light for a carry gun, but that can be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share Posted November 11, 2009 Is there any true advantage to an aluminum grip over polymer? I'm told they both weigh 3 ounces. Are there any weight/reliability advantages or disadvantages to a sight tracker barrel system vs. a bushing barrel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I would not want a sight tracker on a carry pistol. Lots more to snag and bind up the slide if shot close to garments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 You can't get aluminum from SV anymore from what Brandon told me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I'd ditch the adjustable sights, go with a tritium insert front, get the frame with a light rail, swap SV safeties for the Browns, stick with a 3.5lb+ trigger and make sure the slide is only lightened internally. Now, in reality, I don't think a duty gun is likely to make an ideal match gun. If the gun is set up to run our typical .40 Major the springs are likely to be all wrong for full pop duty ammo and you're going to have a different POI so you'll be messing with the sights all the time (assuming you stick with the adjustables). So, you wind up spending a bunch of money that would ordinarily give you a gun perfectly set up (for you) for either duty or competition, but you don't really get either. Just a thought.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) I'd ditch the adjustable sights, go with a tritium insert front, get the frame with a light rail, swap SV safeties for the Browns, stick with a 3.5lb+ trigger and make sure the slide is only lightened internally.Now, in reality, I don't think a duty gun is likely to make an ideal match gun. If the gun is set up to run our typical .40 Major the springs are likely to be all wrong for full pop duty ammo and you're going to have a different POI so you'll be messing with the sights all the time (assuming you stick with the adjustables). So, you wind up spending a bunch of money that would ordinarily give you a gun perfectly set up (for you) for either duty or competition, but you don't really get either. Just a thought.... I picked the adjustable sights because my Tactical shot 4" low from the factory. I'm not a big fan of tritium inserts because they are not very visible during the daylight (compared to FO and I work days about 97% of the time) and I subscribe to the theory of identifying my target at night. If I have enough light to do that, I shouldn't need the tritium. FWIW, I qualified this week with my issued sig, my STI Tactical and my Wilson Pro. The STI dominated the others. The sights (both tritium) on the Sig and the Wilson absolutely sucked when compared to the Champion adjustable rear sight and Dawson FO front sight on the Tactical. I realize that the best comp gun might not be the best carry gun. That is why I would like everyone's opinion on the ideal combination/blend of qualities from each. That is also why I specified a S_I widebody design. Otherwise, I would probably get a lot of suggestions for a Glock. Trust me, there will be a few invited visitors to see what the pros from the Enoverse have to say on this topic. I like your thoughts........please keep them coming Edited November 11, 2009 by rangertrace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwin garcia Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Is there any true advantage to an aluminum grip over polymer? I'm told they both weigh 3 ounces. The aluminum/metal grip will most likely not shrink as much as the polymer grips at sub-zero temp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will_M Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 So does anyone see a disadvantage to the polymer grip? Even with the alleged "shrinkage"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Hello: I would use the STI grip safety(fits frame better). No magwell for carry and as many titanium parts you can find. The Novak adjustable sight is nice and I use one on my Kimber. I would tri top the slide to make it lighter. If you want to use the same pistol for Limited I would have a bull barrel fitted as well. Hope this helps. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I picked the adjustable sights because my Tactical shot 4" low from the factory. That should be nothing more than a quick front sight swap, and if you're having the gun built, give the smith some of your duty ammo and have him set it up to the POI you provide. I gather you haven't had an adjustable rear sight turn into flying parts yet huh? I have...it's pretty common. The bad part is if it happens the way mine did you can't even really point shoot because the entire sight is standing up straight (like a crucifix, no symbolic reference needed!) from the front pin. It happens pretty frequently. If you're going to go with an adjustable, and want to stick with the Bo-Mar style, I think the Wilson might be one of the best around. I'm not a big fan of tritium inserts because they are not very visible during the daylight (compared to FO and I work days about 97% of the time) and I subscribe to the theory of identifying my target at night. If I have enough light to do that, I shouldn't need the tritium. I sorta thought that at one point, but I've had it completely and utterly proven to me to be false. Without delving too far into the tactical world, think how often we might have to go into a basement, big warehouse, etc....maybe chasing a guy who you know to be a threat/target and never lose sight of, but now it's pretty dark. Tritium wins there every time. Pitch black...yeah, we need a light, but a large percentage of the time we live in shades of dusk....especially if it might get carried off duty where even the parking lot of a mall movie theatre is more than dark enough that tritium helps a ton. I'd go one step farther and say I won't ever put FO on a carry gun. I have FO on all my match guns and I love it for whacking black and white steel or brown paper, but not on a varied background that can be any color (inlcuding red/yellow/green)...not a great idea to be in the bad coincidence of having a front sight and a target be the exact same color as it might make you pause. There is an alternative, even though I still say FO/color is a bad idea on a carry gun. I think it's AmeriGlo that makes sight inserts that are both FO and tritium rolled into one, so you get both...color/glow in the day and tritium glow and night. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) Is there any true advantage to an aluminum grip over polymer? I'm told they both weigh 3 ounces. The aluminum/metal grip will most likely not shrink as much as the polymer grips at sub-zero temp. I don't think they get too much sub-zero weather in Trace's neck of the woods Edited November 11, 2009 by G-ManBart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I gather you haven't had an adjustable rear sight turn into flying parts yet huh? I have...it's pretty common. I wouldn’t want adjustables on a military service sidearm which must survive in an extremely abusive environment, or on a police duty gun where the weapon is worn openly in a holster that holds it away from the body, thus the gun – and rear sight – is getting constantly banged off hard objects like doorways. However for an urban concealed carry gun that will (1) be carried tucked in tight to the body, (2) with a layer of cloth covering and protecting the rear sight the vast majority of the time, that gets a bit more debatable. I have carried 1911s fitted with adjustable rear sights for years, and never had a problem with it. I will admit that, as I approached 30k with my Wilson .45, I did finally have the Wilson rear sight leaf break and the rear blade go flying. The Bo-Mar was notorious for this. Bruce Gray told me he thinks the reason is that the springs used in fully adjustable sights, that press upward on the underside of the rear leaf (the portion of the sight actually attaching the rear blade to the sight body) are not particularly strong so they’re easy to compress when adjusting the rear blade down. These springs are so weak you can literally take your index finger and move the rear blade up and down with light pressure. Thus when you fire the gun the rear sight blade actually bounces up and down, battering the leaf which eventually breaks. At Bruce’s suggestion I cut a small piece of rubber, sandwiched it between the leaf and the rear sight body, reinstalled the elevation screw, then tightened everything down, on all my Bo-Mar/Wilson adjustable rear sighted 1911s. Now when I try to push down on the rear sights on my Bo-Mar or Wilson adjustable equipped 1911s, I can’t do it. Literally they feel like a solid rear sight instead of an adjustable. Since I’ve taken Bruce’s advice in this matter I have experienced no more breakage in my adjustable 1911 rear sights. Of course, also admittedly, these days I fire mostly Glocks fitted with fixed sights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Trace have some good idea's from police duty guns I have built, call me to go over them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwx40x40 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 STI Tactical 4.15". Done. +1 This makes it easy. Aluminum frame, tactical rail, sights of your choice, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 STI Tactical 4.15". Done. Agreed. If I had to carry it every day, I would like it much better with an alloy frame, a bushing barrel and stirrup cuts on the slide. LIGHTER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 STI aluminum rail frame STI 4.15" slide Nowlin ramped bushing barrel in 9mm STI hammer, titanium strut Extreme sear/disconnector Ed Brown tactical ambi safeties Aftec Stainless guide rod with Glock flat spring Ed Brown slide stop STI grip safety STI trigger Novak tritium front sight, pinned MMC adjustable rear, tritium bar I'll post pictures once it gets back from being refinished. Benny does nice work! Why 9mm over .40? More rounds in the 126mm mags, and decent 9mm hollowpoints perform just fine in their intended target medium. I don't expect a fight with cardboard, and I tend to shoot minor even in Open these days Besides, I have the all-steel version of this gun in .45 if I want to shoot a gun that starts with "4" Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I just weighed my factory STI eagle in 9mm with a bushing barrel, tri-topped, polymer grip, and SV magwell. It weighs 1 oz more than my sight tracker. I am no more worried about the slot cut in the barrel than any other gun I have to carry. I don't buy the carry ammo/comp ammo difference either. I use the 165 grain Gold Dot JHP s a baseline for testing ammo. It makes a 168-170 PF in all of my 5 inch guns and shoots to the same POA as my 180 JHP/ N320 load. That same gold dot ammo is carried by several LEO agencies. I was given a tip to use some silicone caulk as a shock absorber to help prevent breakage in a Bomar style adjustable sight. I have not had one break since. Just like anything else what is perfect for you might not be perfect for anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic_jon Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 There is an alternative, even though I still say FO/color is a bad idea on a carry gun. I think it's AmeriGlo that makes sight inserts that are both FO and tritium rolled into one, so you get both...color/glow in the day and tritium glow and night. R, The ones that I have seen with both Fiber Optic and Tritium are the TFO Tru-Glo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I don't buy the carry ammo/comp ammo difference either. I use the 165 grain Gold Dot JHP s a baseline for testing ammo. It makes a 168-170 PF in all of my 5 inch guns and shoots to the same POA as my 180 JHP/ N320 load. That really depends on what the duty ammo is. In the past Trace mentioned he had some of the Gold Dot 165gr stuff that runs about 1200fps out of most duty guns. That load chrono'd at almost exactly 1200fps out of my G22. A match load with a 180gr running 950fps isn't gonna hit in the same place at most distances. It may not be 6" off, but one or the other isn't going to be the way you want it without an adjustment. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 There is an alternative, even though I still say FO/color is a bad idea on a carry gun. I think it's AmeriGlo that makes sight inserts that are both FO and tritium rolled into one, so you get both...color/glow in the day and tritium glow and night. R, The ones that I have seen with both Fiber Optic and Tritium are the TFO Tru-Glo. I checked and Ameriglo does offer them...actually has a bit more selection that TruGlo when it comes to dovetail cuts from what I can tell. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I would avoid the Wilson adjustable rear sights - they over-harden them and the rear of the body breaks. They don't break at the front like some Bo-Mar designs do... I've had great luck with Caspian rear sights if you want adjustables. Be aware they have a bit wider notch (about .125). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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