Defective primers?

[flycaster]

I've loaded thousands of handgun rounds over the last two years. Now, for the first time, I've had a few FTF's. I started buying Magtech small pistol primers, because they were in stock, and their ammo is pretty good, in my experience. But then I had three FTF's out of the last 250 rounds. All of the primers had solid hits. The firing pin spring in my XD9 is strong, and shoots an unsharpened pencil far across my room. Has anyone else had such a problem with Magtechs, or any other brand? I shoot in competition, and a "click" sure loses points!

Chuck

[Hi-Power Jack]

Since I can't get WW primers I've tried

S&B and Wolf in my 9mm major STI.

The S&B don't go bang about 100 times

in 250 (I'll try them in my Browning HP

when it comes back from the gunsmith)'

The Wolf's don't go bang about 1-2 times

in 250.

So, I'm using the Wolfs:((

Until I can get my hands on some WWs.

I haven't tried Magtechs.

I believe there was a thread or two about

this (Wolf primers, especially) back a month

or two ago.

[Bongo Boy]

Out of 2,000 primers (my total experience), 1/2 were Wolf and 1/2 were WW. No problems with the WW, probably 50 of Wolfs didn't fire the first hit, maybe 3 never fired at all. Some fired after as many as 5 tries.

I stopped bothering with Wolfs because of this problem and because they're damn difficult to seat in my .45 ACP brass. It takes a real reef on the press to get some of them down. Someone somewhere suggested the Wolf's misfire because they're less likely to be properly seated--the anvil isn't resting on or close to the bottom of the primer pocket. This kinda makes sense to me, if indeed primer compound is so dern stable (insensitive) that a firing pin can actually drive the anvil forward without detonating the primer mat'l. I dunno.

I had light strikes on my primers today for the first time, ever. Same gun I always use. I think the gun gods are simply in a pissy mood.

[G-ManBart]

Are you 100% certain that there is no possible way those three weren't seated properly? If you switch to what may be a slightly harder primer and then add in a few that aren't seated perfectly it could lead to an FTF.

If you've shot their ammo with good results it seems like there might be a disconnect somwhere. Were they small pistol primers or small rifle (or spm/srm etc)?

I'd load up another batch, feel every single primer to make sure they're flush or below and see what happens with those. R,

[Rob Boudrie]

This kinda makes sense to me, if indeed primer compound is so dern stable (insensitive) that a firing pin can actually drive the anvil forward without detonating the primer mat'l. I dunno.

It is.

It is not uncommon for less than fully seated primers of the first tier brands to not go off if they are seated high. The failed attempt at firing often seats the primer a bit deeper, and a second hit works.

[shooterbenedetto]

install a positive HEAVY mainspring(Ex:18lbs) for all primer to go bang!

for practice!! USE EXPENSIVE PRIMERS FOR BIG MATCH..

SB

Edited October 18, 2009 by shooterbenedetto

[Chris iliff]

Had a 17# mainspring and several misfires with Wolf small rifle primers, bought a 19# mainspring and it upped my trigger 1/8# and now the Wolf's go BANG everytime. Problem solved.

[coframer]

Are you 100% certain that there is no possible way those three weren't seated properly? If you switch to what may be a slightly harder primer and then add in a few that aren't seated perfectly it could lead to an FTF.

If you've shot their ammo with good results it seems like there might be a disconnect somwhere. Were they small pistol primers or small rifle (or spm/srm etc)?

I'd load up another batch, feel every single primer to make sure they're flush or below and see what happens with those. R,

I've been having that problem both ways. The high primer would not go off, but even the ones that were seated properly would not go off. Happened quite a bit with the Remington primers I had. Only a couple with the Winchester, but could have been a high primer? Haven't had any problems with the Federals.

[flycaster]

If you've shot their ammo with good results it seems like there might be a disconnect somwhere. Were they small pistol primers or small rifle (or spm/srm etc)?

Small pistol.

I'd load up another batch, feel every single primer to make sure they're flush or below and see what happens with those. R,

I've already done that.

Please note- the "failed" primers had deep, obvious impacts from the firing pin. That's why I'm suspicious. But, apparently many folks have had primer issues from time to time. As far as buying top tier primers is concerned... for a long time now, I've bought what I can find!

Please understand- I know all or part of this could be in my lap. It's just that I'm trying to eliminate the variables.

Chuck

[gfmun]

I purchased my first Open gun, a .38 Super and started loading small rifle primers. I started with a few CCI small rifle primers I had for loading .223 and had no problems at all. I bought some Wolf small rifle primers because I could get them and started having failure to fire problems. I blamed it on high primers as they seem to me to seat harder than the CCIs did. I started being very careful sorting out anything that looked like it might be even a little high and putting those in the practice jar. No problems since I started being extra careful in sorting and the ones regulated to the practice jar give me about 30% or more fails to fire. I plan on going back to CCI or Winchester primers if I can get some.

thanks,

George

[Rob Boudrie]

Please note- the "failed" primers had deep, obvious impacts from the firing pin.

It is quite possible for a high primer to be seated by a firing pin hit that leaves a deep obvious impact but does not set the round off. You can't conclude the primer is bad from just the hit unless you are certain the primer was properly seated before the first hit of the firing pin.

Been there, done that

[flycaster]

Please note- the "failed" primers had deep, obvious impacts from the firing pin.

It is quite possible for a high primer to be seated by a firing pin hit that leaves a deep obvious impact but does not set the round off. You can't conclude the primer is bad from just the hit unless you are certain the primer was properly seated before the first hit of the firing pin.

Been there, done that

Thanks, Rob. If that's the case, I'll be more observant.

Chuck

[flycaster]

Please note- the "failed" primers had deep, obvious impacts from the firing pin.

It is quite possible for a high primer to be seated by a firing pin hit that leaves a deep obvious impact but does not set the round off. You can't conclude the primer is bad from just the hit unless you are certain the primer was properly seated before the first hit of the firing pin.

Been there, done that

Thanks, Rob. If that's the case, I'll be more observant.

Chuck

O.K. Back from the range. I "finger tested" all 150 rounds before heading out. The primers were nice and flush with the rear surfaces of the cases. At the range, I had two FTF's. The first fired on second strike, the second one didn't, and I ejected it out of the gun. It had a nice indentation in the primer. I just don't see how my primers could be seated high. Frustrated.

Chuck

[Too_Slow]

flycaster,

The primer must be BELOW flush to be properly seated. You should be able to feel that the primer is inset a couple of thousandths of an inch (yes you can feel and see this amount as well). If they are only flush with the base of the case they are not completely seated.

Brian

[boz1911]

flycaster,

The primer must be BELOW flush to be properly seated. You should be able to feel that the primer is inset a couple of thousandths of an inch (yes you can feel and see this amount as well). If they are only flush with the base of the case they are not completely seated.

Brian

That is correct, a few thousand's below flush. I always box my ammo and inspect every primer. Anything that doesn't look perfect goes in the practice box.

What kind of press are you loading with?

[flycaster]

flycaster,

The primer must be BELOW flush to be properly seated. You should be able to feel that the primer is inset a couple of thousandths of an inch (yes you can feel and see this amount as well). If they are only flush with the base of the case they are not completely seated.

Brian

That is correct, a few thousand's below flush. I always box my ammo and inspect every primer. Anything that doesn't look perfect goes in the practice box.

What kind of press are you loading with?

News to me, but important. I'm loading on a Lee Turret. I push the lever quite firmly to seat the primer. I've never had a problem with .45's, so maybe I need a new "seater"(?).

Chuck

[MTU_327PC]

Had too buy a batch of 5,000 magtechs this summer when i couldn't get my hands on anything else, and every one went bang. Granted these weren't shot through a hopped up race gun like many of you guys have. Just a bone stock H&K USP9. I have tried Wolf and had on average 2-3% never fire or had taken several tries to work. Like stated a couple posts above, I too had a hard time seating these in some brands of 9mm brass. They were all practice range rounds anyways. Gotta save the good primers for matches.

[flycaster]

Had too buy a batch of 5,000 magtechs this summer when i couldn't get my hands on anything else, and every one went bang. Granted these weren't shot through a hopped up race gun like many of you guys have. Just a bone stock H&K USP9. I have tried Wolf and had on average 2-3% never fire or had taken several tries to work. Like stated a couple posts above, I too had a hard time seating these in some brands of 9mm brass. They were all practice range rounds anyways. Gotta save the good primers for matches.

Well, thanks to all of you good folks, I believe I have some direction now. Great group here!

Chuck

[Team Amish 1]

Having the same problems currently. I have been using Wolf primers for my Glock in 9mm for over a year, always bought them by the 1,000, the colour was ALWAYS brass. When I ordered a batch of 10,000 Wolf primers on the net, I received a mix of brass-coloured and silver-coloured primers. Every 20-30, i.e. approx. 4%, there will be a dud. Very unnerving in a match. I fingertip check every primer I "install" so I know it's not the seating. I filed a complaint with the internet-seller who in turn supposedly contacted Wolf. Have not heard back, yet.

[will227457]

I have my special store of federal primers that I use for matchs only

win, wolff, and anything else I can get my hands on are for practice only.....

[DUKE]

The way I was taught feel the primer seat fully then be sure to inspect each round when boxed under a lite.

Has worked realy well for me! {Thanks to the bullitt}

[kildar]

I've been experiencing failures with Wolf primers also. My first several hundred rounds of my reloads the failure to fire rate was about one or two per hundred. After doing searches online regarding these failures I suspected I might not be seating the primers deep enough. My subsequent reloading sessions with Wolf primers included several extra pushes on the reloading press handle to firmly seat each primer. Since following this extra step my failure to fire rate with Wolf primers has actually increased to five or six per hundred. My question for this discussion is could I be seating Wolf primers too deep causing these failures? I've become very disappointed with Wolf primers after blowing several stages at local club matches because of these failures. Failing to find a satisfactory solution using Wolf primers I'll be limiting their use to my practice ammo in the future.

[Team Amish 1]

Kildar, just saw your post.

You can seat them too low, done that before.

Like the gentleman posted above, tad below flush is perfect.

Out of curiosity, which type Wold primer do you use and is the cup silver or brass or copper in colour?

I am currently using Wolf small rifle primers for my Open gun and they work 100% so far. Their colour is copper.

My bad experiences were only with silver coloured small pistol primers, funnily the brass coloured SP worked fine.

Anyone else noticed the same thing or can elaborate on the colour and type of their Wolf duds?

Thanks!

[m_deaner]

I had about a 2% failure rate with the new, silver Wolf SP primers. The copper-colored ones ran without a hitch.

I blamed it on the gun (it has a lightened striker spring) and sold them.

I hope I didn't sell someone defective primers.

I'm using Federal SPM now; bought a bunch from Grafs a couple of months ago.

[Rob Boudrie]

A friend (38 super 1911) and I (40 S&W SVI) have been using the Coper color Wolf Small rifle primers without any failures. I have a box of the primers to a friend and he returned them since he got too many misfires. I have a box of his ammo I will be trying in my gun to see if it's his loading technique or a difference in firing pin energy (he shoots a Sig).

Wolf primers seem to be a love em or hate em sort of product.

rob