tightloop Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Man, I can't tell you how upset I am at the results of my chrony work with VV N320. Loading 5.4gr under 200gr H&G 68, Fed 150 primers, COL 1.250, crimp .470. This is 3 strings of 15 rounds each. Once fired WW brass. All rounds weighed on a RCBS digital scale and checked on a Redding beam scale. Low of 812 High of 878 Es of 66 Avg 844 SD 26 Primers are a little flat, recoil is a bit snappy, but ok. Tried 5.3 grains with the same data as above. Low 805 High 823 ES of 18 Avg is 816 SD 9 Primers look like you had spread them on the face of the case with a butter knife, one punctured primer. Why can the numbers be so great for 5.3 and get such terrible pressure signs; while at .1 gr more, numbers go to hell and no pressure to speak of. Same three strings of 15 ea with 5.3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 TL, are we talking .45? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted November 21, 2003 Author Share Posted November 21, 2003 Sorry, yes, .45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjob Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Try 310..........thats what I use for 45.......I use 320 for my 40........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted November 21, 2003 Author Share Posted November 21, 2003 According to the burn chart, 310 is FASTER than 320 and I think 320 is too fast already... thinking about 340 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlocknSchpiel Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Hey TightLoop, You'll love N-340. Use the data from VV and you'll be in the ballpark. I use 340 in 9mm, 38sp, 357, & 45ACP. Keep it a LITTLE on the warm side and there's virtually no flash, very clean, and the recoil impulse, although a little heavier, is slower and much more controllable. Bert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 I get an avg of 850fps out of 5g of 320 under a 200g LSWC and WLP's @ 1.245 oal. I've shot this load for years out of a bunch of different 45's. I like it enough that I quit looking for anything better. No primer flow at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 I've had .45 loads with Federal primers show pressure signs when the identical load with Winchester primers shows NO pressure signs. Bill Nesbitt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 That's because you can only compare pressure if you are comparing loads with the same primer. The cup on Winchester primers is noticeably harder than it is on Federal primers, so Federal primers will show more pressure than an identical load with Winchester primers. Even though the actual pressure may be similar between the two loads. You cannot read pressure by looking at primers. tl, You might try duplicating your test (exactly as above) on three different days and see if you get the same results. Maybe even add a 5.5 gr load to the test. Over the years, I've seen soooo many results (like yours) that don't make sense, eventually I stopped trying to figure it all out. It's voodoo. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted November 22, 2003 Author Share Posted November 22, 2003 Well, just tell me if you think I am chasing my tail. I believe that if I could find a powder 20 yrs ago that was clean, consistent, soft shooting, accurate and metered well, damn it, there should be one today too. I could be wrong, and if you think so, just tell me, cause I don't have the time or patience for voodoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Lotsa praise for titegroup these days...tried that? SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted November 22, 2003 Author Share Posted November 22, 2003 Steve Yes, I've tried Titegroup, and may again, if I don't find anything else I like. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Mr Loop, My last HG68 lead bullet data is below: Powder Load OAL H/L AVG ES SD PF N320 5.1 1.242 925/900 903 25 7 180.6 N320 4.8 1.242 893/852 866 41 12 173.2 N320 4.7 1.242 844/807 827 37 15 165.4 These were done with WIN 1x brass and WIN Large Pistol primers. The barrel was a 5" Kart. Not sure what this means compared to your data. Consider the weights +/- 0.1 grain accuracy. These loads shot great and were very accurate. I just got sick of the smoke. Usually not a problem outside (except for the gagging RO ) until you get into a confined area like under a table. Phew. Went back to a plated SWC which with 5 gr I get ~ 171 or so. Take Care, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Suber Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 I use 5.0 grns of N320 with a Lightning Bullets 200 LSWC at 1.240 - 1.245" with great results. I am getting a consistent 840 -845 fps in both a Para and a Colt Series 70. I am using Winchester LP primers and various brass (my 45's will eat anything). The load feels good with not much muzzle flip. Perhaps it is your primers? Just a thought. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodneyLtd Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Anything you can share about the pistol? Is it new? A new barrel? Could there be a tight chamber problem? A tight chamber can give you fits when working up load data. I had similar problem about four years ago after a pistol was rebarreled and traced it back to a very tight chamber. Once it was reamed to spec the pressure problem went away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted November 26, 2003 Author Share Posted November 26, 2003 It is not a pistol problem, in fact we are using two different pistols to test to try to eliminate that very thing. I think it is the Fed primers we are using. Went out today and tested some WST. 4.4 gr WST 785 hi 758 lo 771 avg 27 es 9 sd 4.5 gr WST 803 hi 771 lo 782 avg 32 es 11 sd 4.6 gr WST 811 hi 773 lo 796 avg 38 es 15 sd Need another tenth or two to make it to major, but look at this. 5.7 gr WW 231 858 hi 838 lo 848 avg 20 es 8 sd I know it is dirty and has some smoke, but this is the best consistency I have found yet and the primers look good. Maybe us old shooters should stick to old powder...on top of that, it isn't hard to get and is cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GvU Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 thightloop, Maybe your COL is to much. If the front guiding band is to close to the rifling you get inconsistencies because there is some variation in the bullet-front. Try seating 0.04"less. I've been using 185, 200 and 230 with lead, plated and jackets, without any problem. My last load was a RN plated bullet at 228gn with 4.9gn N320 for a PF of about 174. The COL was 1.25" John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 "Maybe us old shooters should stick to old powder." Tightloop, I'm still using Bullseye. Bill Nesbitt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Have you tried Clays? Works great for 230gr fmj. bkeeler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted November 26, 2003 Author Share Posted November 26, 2003 GvU My first post shows COL of 1.250, same as yours. Bkeeler My first post shows trying Clays, and not liking it, as I thought it was too fast for the recoil impulse I was seeking. Going out again next Tuesday with some 4.7WST, 4.8 WST, and some 5.6 WW 231. I will let you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree Rat Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Titeloop........ I think you found the powder your looking for in WST. WST shoots softer than anything in major for both 40 and 180's and 45 and 200's, although Clays and 230's is still the sweet major load....all IMHO of course. Cheaper and widlely more available than N320, meters great, acceptably clean, low flash. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GvU Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Tightloop I know the COL is the same but there is a difference between SWC and RN. Mine (SLM) has plenty of "freebore" (something like 0.08"). Sorry about the confusion. I was confronted with the erratic velocities when I loaded short (180 gn) hardcast SWC's as far out as I thought possible, that was close to touching the rifling (powder then was "Unique"). Backing off the rifling considerably produced much improvement in velocity-spread (and lower velocities). As far as I could determine the variations in the (almost no) jump to the rifling contributed to large variations in pressure with this much slower powder. The much faster N320 will show this behavior sooner. 5.6 W231 will probably do the job as well with the 200gn SWC, the PF may be a bit higher than needed. Bullseye also works well. My experience with N340 in 45acp is not as good as with N320, to much velocity spread. N340 needs higher pressures that I like in a 45acp (produces a too high PF as well). John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted November 26, 2003 Author Share Posted November 26, 2003 GvU I don't think you are talking about COL, cartridge overall length, you are talking about the ogive, or shape of the projectile when the sides stop being parallel. Be that as it may, thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 tl, Strangely enough, like you I was recently experimenting with N320 and 200-gr. LSWCs. I had the same experience: high ES and SD, very dirty. I discussed this with Bruce Gray and he said that in his experience N320 is not a good powder for cast bullets, especially in a low pressure cartridge like .45 ACP. In higher pressure cartridges with jacketed bullets, according to Bruce, it's very, very good, with much more consistency and cleaner burning. Going out to the range later today to chrono some 230-gr. LRN with Clays. I have high hopes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Tightloop, I've been loading .45acp with WST and 200 grain bullets for about 6 months and I love it. As you've found it is relatively clean, very consistent, temp. stable, soft shooting, and meters well out of a dillon measure. I am loading 200gr RN westcoast plated with mixed brass, winchester SP primers, and 5.0 grains of WST. OAL of 1.260 and this load makes 168pf no problem. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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