sperman Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 From time to time at the "Make ready" command I will leave the gun holstered, pull the hammer back and put the safety on. From there I will take the unloaded sight picture and proceed to make ready. I've seen this done by many shooters and I've seen it done at Area matches, but I've never heard anyone have a problem with it. At nationals last week I had one of the top NROI guys warn me (after I completed the stage) that a person could be DQ'ed for this. I just wanted to pass along the warning to other shooters. I know I won't be doing this anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 not true. anytime says something like that, as which rule he is refering to. after the load and make ready comand, maybe you should pull the gun out of the holster and show the chamber, then put the safety on and then holster. lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 It is illegal to holster a "loaded" weapon with the safety off. The rulebook give definitions of what is loaded and what is not. Your situation does not fall into the category of "loaded". In fact, if you walk up to the line, prior to the Make Ready command and the hammer is back, as long as the gun is unloaded per the rulebook, the only action taken is to walk you to an appropriate area and have you lower the hammer. I would be interested in hearing the logic for what you were told. Additionally, if you "could" be DQ'd for doing what you did, why weren't you? Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I would be interested in hearing the logic for what you were told. Additionally, if you "could" be DQ'd for doing what you did, why weren't you?Gary +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Jones Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 What I said to the shooter is that I have been told of cases of competitors being threatened with DQ for this. The reported "rationale" for it (as told to me by shooters who were faced with it) was that the handgun is considered loaded after the MR command and since it is momentarily cocked without the safety applied while holstered and violating 10.5.11.1. Now that we have a better definitions in the Glossary, it should not be a problem, but..... It was just a bit of advice. I stopped using this technique years ago to avoid this kind of distraction during a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 (edited) A person who post a picture of a helicopter pulling vertical is worried about distraction:) Edit: After looking closer it appears it is going almost straight down. Regardless the comment is still valid:) Edited September 21, 2009 by Gary Stevens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I guess you should take the gun out of the holster, cock the hammer, apply the safety, and reholster if you want to take a dry fire draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 (edited) IMHO manipulating the gun in any way while holstered is simply less than stellar gun handling. Unholster then manipulate. edit deleted Edited September 21, 2009 by Steve J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingchef Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I 've seen several top shooters, at the make ready command, turn on the dot and cock the hammer, practice their draw and proceed to finish loading. Nothing illegal with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenTX Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I 've seen several top shooters, at the make ready command, turn on the dot and cock the hammer, practice their draw and proceed to finish loading. Nothing illegal with that. Nothing illegal about it, but like taking a sight picture with a loaded gun, it makes some ROs nervous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouSlide Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I 've seen several top shooters, at the make ready command, turn on the dot and cock the hammer, practice their draw and proceed to finish loading. Nothing illegal with that. Nothing illegal about it, but like taking a sight picture with a loaded gun, it makes some ROs nervous. As long as it is pointed downrange, it doesn't make me nervous...but if it goes bang during the procedure, the resulting DQ will make the competitor very unhappy. Curtis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I would be interested in hearing the logic for what you were told. Additionally, if you "could" be DQ'd for doing what you did, why weren't you?Gary +1 Just a comment on the latter part of Gary's post. I hate the DQ threat as in "I could have DQ'd you but I didn't" . It serves no purpose, either I committed a DQable (is that a word) offense and should be DQ'd or I didn't. But please don't insinuate that as an RO you are doing anyone a favor by not DQ'ing someone who has committed the infraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM262 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Just a comment on the latter part of Gary's post. I hate the DQ threat as in "I could have DQ'd you but I didn't" . It serves no purpose, either I committed a DQable (is that a word) offense and should be DQ'd or I didn't. But please don't insinuate that as an RO you are doing anyone a favor by not DQ'ing someone who has committed the infraction. Amen! Who needs it? Either a rule was broken or it wasn't. If a rule was broken, then site the rule, if no rule was broken, then say nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted September 21, 2009 Author Share Posted September 21, 2009 I appreciated George's warning and I won't do it again. I can't find a rule that would support a DQ, but why even give anyone the option of starting that discussion. It only takes an extra second to draw the gun before pulling the hammer and applying the safety. Also thanks to George for giving his side of this encounter. I didn't want to volunteer his name without his permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Sounds like a good thing to cover in future RO classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM262 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I try my best to be crisp and precise in my make ready routine. I try to do everything the same way everytime without hesitation. I don't want the RO to have time to think about or wonder what I am doing. I should probably take a little more time and actually take a sight picture, but I like to get the shooting once I get to the line. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1973 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I try my best to be crisp and precise in my make ready routine. I try to do everything the same way everytime without hesitation. I don't want the RO to have time to think about or wonder what I am doing. I should probably take a little more time and actually take a sight picture, but I like to get the shooting once I get to the line. :-) I do not have a problem with someone advising me on potential rule infractions, however, I have a very fragile ego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I try my best to be crisp and precise in my make ready routine. I try to do everything the same way everytime without hesitation. I don't want the RO to have time to think about or wonder what I am doing. I should probably take a little more time and actually take a sight picture, but I like to get the shooting once I get to the line. :-) If you ever RO Tony, you best be on your toes. After "Make Ready" he will be before you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Note: merged threads. - Admin. I've begun to see a lot of people cock there hammer in the holster at make ready. They cock it and then draw and dry fire the gun on the targets...... Maybe I've just become more observant that I used to be, but I see this from at least a few shooters each match. Thoughts? JT Edited February 9, 2011 by Flexmoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaGunner Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I guess it's faster then racking the slide and reholstering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouSlide Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I seem to vaguely recall an extended discussion on this at some point. Relying on memory here (a bad thing) and after a fresh perusal of the rules I couldn't think of a reason to prohibit it but I personally don't feel it's the greatest idea...I would always want the safety check of racking and visual confirmation to make triple sure it was unloaded. Curtis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingchef Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 perfectly legal, don't see the purpose. if you don't know what your trigger feels like, should dry fire at home more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark R Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 perfectly legal, don't see the purpose. if you don't know what your trigger feels like, should dry fire at home more often. +1 ...and taking a sight picture is just that...taking a sight picture. Trigger testing should be done in the safe area or while dry firing at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=92610 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=106793 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 (edited) I wanted to get your guys opinion before I had my say. If it were up to me I would not allow it. I think it's a breach in safety protocol. Looking at the rules, I don't see any way for me to prevent it, but that doesn't man I have to agree with it. JT Edited February 14, 2011 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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