Dillon digital scale

[bkeeler]

When checking my powder charges I drop 4 charges and weigh them for a 4 drop average and it comes to 20.0gr so each charge is 5.0gr. When I weigh just 1 charge it comes out to 4.9gr. When I weigh 2 charges it comes out to 10.0gr.

Can anyone tell me why when I weigh 1 charge it comes out to 4.9gr instead 5.0gr? The way I see it is if I weigh 4 charges and the scale reads 20.0gr 1 charge should weigh 5.0gr not 4.9gr. Also if I weigh 2 charges it comes out to 10.0gr.

I always do the 4 drop average when I start loading and then do a 4 drop average when I finished and it always comes out the same 20.0gr for 4 charges.

I am a little confused with this.

Any Ideas?

Thanks,

BK

Edited September 9, 2009 by bkeeler

[JimmyZip]

If your scale only goes to a 10th of a gr., it is probably rounding up. Try double the amounts, and then triple.

[BMartens]

A [+ or -] .1 of a grain variance is acceptable for just about any standard powder measure, especially in a progressive loader. Electronic scales do round up and down for their tolerance of .1 grain.

I start adjusting using 4 drops and when I get it close I finish with 10 drops. I always average 10 drops and check it after 50 rounds and then every 200-300. I know I have loaded over 6000 rounds of .45 with 4.3 grains of Clays without ever touching the adjustment.

Try this once, drop each charge on the scale, one at a time, adding each new charge to the previous and write each new weight down. Then look at the progression to the final weight. You will almost always see the .1 grain variation. This also give you a good idea of how each powder flows through a powder measure. Some are better than others, much better in some cases.

Power factor is an average too.

[Sarge]

It is rounding off. I always do at least 10 charges. Tonight I was loading 3.9 grain charges. I always looked for the total to change by-.1. i.e. 3.9 then 7.8 then 11.7 and so forth until I get to 39.0. Sometimes it will change + or - with each charge sometimes not but at the end it might read 39.3 or 38.7 or whatever.

If I feel like tweaking it I will try to adjust it but I have found that by trying to make that small of an adjustment the charge sometimes moves the exact opposite of what it should. i.e turn the wheel to increase a tiny bit and the load will drop.05. That is why I weigh several strings of ten and look for an average. Sometimes it is different every time and sometimes not. Also I was told to measure with the dust cover on so I drop a charge, get a reading, then put the dust cover on and the numbers often change by .1. For me it always goes up if anything with the dust cover on.

I guess that might sound confusing but the scale is trying to round off but is only able to show .1 increments.

So if you are confused by my babble just try throwing 3 sets of 10, put the dust cover on and see what your numbers come out to.

I have also learned that some powders (TG and solo 1000) will vary by .1 alot. Probably due to the size of the flakes.

There is nothing wrong with your scale though.

[bkeeler]

A [+ or -] .1 of a grain variance is acceptable for just about any standard powder measure, especially in a progressive loader. Electronic scales do round up and down for their tolerance of .1 grain.

I start adjusting using 4 drops and when I get it close I finish with 10 drops. I always average 10 drops and check it after 50 rounds and then every 200-300. I know I have loaded over 6000 rounds of .45 with 4.3 grains of Clays without ever touching the adjustment.

Try this once, drop each charge on the scale, one at a time, adding each new charge to the previous and write each new weight down. Then look at the progression to the final weight. You will almost always see the .1 grain variation. This also give you a good idea of how each powder flows through a powder measure. Some are better than others, much better in some cases.

Power factor is an average too.

This is what happens:

I drop a charge and through it in the pan on the scale and it reads 4.9gr I add another charge to it and it is at 10.0gr add another and it is at 15.0gr I add another charge it is at 20.0gr.

I can only assume that my charge is at 5.0gr and not 4.9gr correct?

I like to keep records of my load data and chrono I just bumped up my charge and then all this happens so I really don't know what the charge is.

I have done the 4 drop average about twenty times and it always comes out the same.

Thanks,

BK

Edited September 9, 2009 by bkeeler

[Service Desk]

A [+ or -] .1 of a grain variance is acceptable for just about any standard powder measure, especially in a progressive loader. Electronic scales do round up and down for their tolerance of .1 grain.

I start adjusting using 4 drops and when I get it close I finish with 10 drops. I always average 10 drops and check it after 50 rounds and then every 200-300. I know I have loaded over 6000 rounds of .45 with 4.3 grains of Clays without ever touching the adjustment.

Try this once, drop each charge on the scale, one at a time, adding each new charge to the previous and write each new weight down. Then look at the progression to the final weight. You will almost always see the .1 grain variation. This also give you a good idea of how each powder flows through a powder measure. Some are better than others, much better in some cases.

Power factor is an average too.

This is what happens:

I drop a charge and through it in the pan on the scale and it reads 4.9gr I add another charge to hit and it is at 10.0gr add another and it is at 15.0gr I add another charge it is at 20.0gr.

I can only assume that my charge is at 5.0gr and not 4.9gr correct?

I like to keep records of my load data and chrono I just bumped up my charge and then all this happens so I really don't know what the charge is.

I have done the 4 drop average about twenty times and it always comes out the same.

Thanks,

BK

Try a beam type set of scales - they are a lot less frustrating than the electronic units !

[bkeeler]

Never had a problem when I was loading 4.8gr I would throw 4 charges and the average would be 4.850gr. But when I check 1 charge it would be 4.8gr. I understand that. But when an average comes out to be 5.0gr I expected 1 charge alone to be 5.0gr. Maybe I am looking to deep into it.

Just a little baffled that if it comes out to be 20.0gr for a 4 charge average that I thought with checking 1 charge it would be 5.0gr.

I checked the average of 4 drops 4 times and has always come out to 20.0gr. So by weighing 10 charges 8 times and averaging the weight would be the same as doing an average of 4 drops 4 times.(I guess)

So is it 5.0gr or 4.9XXgrs.

I guess I will call it 5.0gr sense the average comes out to 5.0gr.

Thanks,

BK

[zhunter]

I drop 20 times, and then weight and of course divide by 20.

The more drops you make, the more accurate your reading are going to be. 20 is not a big deal in the big scheme of things, as you get it right, set it, and are good to go until you change your load.

[bkeeler]

I drop 20 times, and then weight and of course divide by 20.

The more drops you make, the more accurate your reading are going to be. 20 is not a big deal in the big scheme of things, as you get it right, set it, and are good to go until you change your load.

I get that concept but when you check 1 drop and it does not come out to your 20 drop average what do you do? Just go with your average drop as your load? Don't worry about weighing 1 charge or weigh it and don't worry if it is only .1 off your average? If my 20 drop average comes out to 5.0gr just roll with it?

This all started with me wanting to bump up my load for a little more cushion at the chrono.

Maybe I am trying to be too precise.

Thanks for the advice.

BK

[shred]

The big measuring boys ("metrology") require 10x the accuracy of the ruler to the result-from-the-part-being-measured, in this case the scale and powder charge. Since most scales don't go to 0.01 gr, throw ten and divide, or you can't make any reasonable claims about what the last digit is or isn't.

[Alan550]

You're also looking at tolerance levels. If the scale has a tolerance of +/- .1 gr. and the powder measure info says it's accurate to +/- .1 gr. , there's your difference. The 10X measuring method mentioned above, and even the 20X will give you a good idea what's ending up in your cases, but other than weighing every charge, that's about as close as you can expect to get with any powder measure.......+/- .1 grain.

YMMV

Alan~^~

[BayouSlide]

I always do at least 10 charges.

Same here. I weigh a series of 10 powder drops before making a run of ammo, adjust as necessary, recheck with another series of 10. I look for at least three series of 10 in a row that fall within .1 - .2 of 10X my established charge weight. I'll adjust as necessary if things seem out of whack.

Then I recheck with another 10 charges after the first 100 rounds before I go to the second tube of primers, just to make sure everything has settled in to where I expect it to be. That makes sure everything is settled in and the average powder drop is where I expect it to be. I check again at the end of the run to make sure it stayed within specs.

Curtis

Edited September 9, 2009 by BayouSlide

[bkeeler]

Thanks everyone. I will be doing 10 drop averages and use the average as my charge for each round.

BK

[zhunter]

Shred has it right, you are taking a scale with an accuracy to a tenth of a grain to a scale that is a hundredth scale.

My doing twenty is just appeasing my OCD

The average of the 10 drops is a truer value than only one drop

[larry cazes]

The big measuring boys ("metrology") require 10x the accuracy of the ruler to the result-from-the-part-being-measured, in this case the scale and powder charge. Since most scales don't go to 0.01 gr, throw ten and divide, or you can't make any reasonable claims about what the last digit is or isn't.

Yup. He's got it right. Good lab practice would have you throwing away (ignoring) the least significant digit on the digital readout. By the way, there are many scales selling for $175-$200 that have enough accuracy to allow this for our application. There is only one that I know of that is marketed to reloaders that does and Uniqtek sells it.

Edited September 9, 2009 by larry cazes

[benos]

Thanks everyone. I will be doing 10 drop averages and use the average as my charge for each round.

BK

Yes. I HIGHLY recommend forgetting about individual charge weights when calibrating for a particular load.

be

[bkeeler]

Well came home today and weighed 10 drops and it came out to be 50.0gr so my charge is at 5.0gr where I wanted it. Perfect.

Thanks again everyone.

BK

[BMartens]

There you go, you've got a good load now.

[askomiko]

I use the uniquetek micrometer powder slide thingy. So, I write up the numbers for load testing: "162 gave PF 169, 166 gave PF 172, 170 gave PF 176". After changing calibers, I can go back to whatever load I had by just checking the number, and it's always spot on. I love it!

[larry cazes]

I use the uniquetek micrometer powder slide thingy. So, I write up the numbers for load testing: "162 gave PF 169, 166 gave PF 172, 170 gave PF 176". After changing calibers, I can go back to whatever load I had by just checking the number, and it's always spot on. I love it!

Yup, me too. These things are really nice, huh? Every dillon measure I own has one of these.

[Sarge]

I use the uniquetek micrometer powder slide thingy. So, I write up the numbers for load testing: "162 gave PF 169, 166 gave PF 172, 170 gave PF 176". After changing calibers, I can go back to whatever load I had by just checking the number, and it's always spot on. I love it!

Now that sounds like a good investment. I tried marking the plastic knob that I put on the adjusting nut of my 550. After changing powders a few times and charge weights I found that the markings I made no longer matched what they were previously throwing. I thought it would stay pretty close but nope.

[bkeeler]

Here is a link for theMicrometer Powder Bar Kit

BK

[BMartens]

Just installed one of these on my SDB and I think it is great. They will email you a spreadsheet that use to record what settings drop and it gives you a graph to use to predict what setting will drop and what weight of powder. It has much finer threads than the stock Dillon bolt so you can really dial it in. Record your pet load and return to it by just dialing in the setting.

Doesn't change the +/- .1 tolerance for the overall operation but, it makes it easier set and return to a setting.

If you get one, read the instructions. It involves adult glue so you want to get it right the first time, because that is all you get.