Wolf Primers...they changed!

[shepheard]

i emaled them the other day and was told the spp and lpp are harder than before.

[usp45ss]

Well, I just cracked into the supply I bought awhile back from Wideners. Sure enough, they are the silver ones. My lot is 8-09. Guess we'll see how it goes.

[Jman]

Well, I just cracked into the supply I bought awhile back from Wideners. Sure enough, they are the silver ones. My lot is 8-09. Guess we'll see how it goes.

You "should" be fine. UNLESS of course, as mentioned, your using lightened springs in your trigger group.

Jim

[Dodge DeBoulet]

Well, I just cracked into the supply I bought awhile back from Wideners. Sure enough, they are the silver ones. My lot is 8-09. Guess we'll see how it goes.

You "should" be fine. UNLESS of course, as mentioned, your using lightened springs in your trigger group.

Jim

I hope he is (fine, that is). But both the standard striker spring and a Speed Shooter Specialties "Extra Power" striker spring didn't help with mine.

It's important to note that Wolf has acknowledged that there are problems with the new manufacturing method. And those problems seem to have started when the primer color changed from bronze/brass to silver. They are working on getting it resolved, though.

Edited February 13, 2010 by Dodge DeBoulet

[Team Amish 1]

Dangit!

I was hoping they would let me keep them so I got on the phone and asked. The person told me to ship. I could have had practice primers for months...

[Dodge DeBoulet]

Dangit!

I was hoping they would let me keep them so I got on the phone and asked. The person told me to ship. I could have had practice primers for months...

Interesting. Maybe they were getting too many claims that seemed suspicious . . . people looking for "free" primers. I actually begged them to just ship me some primers that worked and told them that the refund was far less important. Alas, they refunded my money, but let me keep the primers. I certainly can't complain, but all I wanted was working primers.

[Rob Boudrie]

Dangit!

I was hoping they would let me keep them so I got on the phone and asked. The person told me to ship. I could have had practice primers for months...

How fortunate for Wolf that you are a UPS certified hazmat trained shipper, and have the "acceptance of unlimited liability for hazmat incident cleanup" contract already on file with UPS - the only way in which you may use them to ship primers.

[Team Amish 1]

Dangit!

I was hoping they would let me keep them so I got on the phone and asked. The person told me to ship. I could have had practice primers for months...

How fortunate for Wolf that you are a UPS certified hazmat trained shipper, and have the "acceptance of unlimited liability for hazmat incident cleanup" contract already on file with UPS - the only way in which you may use them to ship primers.

Yes, how fortunate for Wolf. Plus, I would not have minded "disposing" of their primers during my practice sessions.

[ks-shooter]

It's important to note that Wolf has acknowledged that there are problems with the new manufacturing method. And those problems seem to have started when the primer color changed from bronze/brass to silver. They are working on getting it resolved, though.

Glad you mentioned that. I was wondering if they were investigating solving the problem. I hope they get it done soon.

[MoNsTeR]

If they can make them as sensitive as Winchesters, I'll buy 10 more cases.

[ilvwhtgrls]

I received my shipping tag and refund in less than a week! Great customer service, I'll make sure to keep buying em!

[Dodge DeBoulet]

I received my shipping tag and refund in less than a week! Great customer service, I'll make sure to keep buying em!

I don't know that they'll honor another refund if you run into problems, though. I was told explicitly that I would not be eligible for another refund if I purchased more, at least until they were assured by the manufacturing facilities that the problem has been resolved.

[ilvwhtgrls]

I received my shipping tag and refund in less than a week! Great customer service, I'll make sure to keep buying em!

I don't know that they'll honor another refund if you run into problems, though. I was told explicitly that I would not be eligible for another refund if I purchased more, at least until they were assured by the manufacturing facilities that the problem has been resolved.

Indeed, I wasn't under the impression that they would issue another refund, I just appreciate good customer service.

[Bill Nesbitt]

I tested some more of the Wolf silver small pistol primers today to help out the folks who have some. I put 100 rounds through a Glock 17 with a new factory striker spring. I had 1 failure to fire that didn't fire on the second strike either. The other 99 went off OK. I fired 100 rounds through a 9mm 1911. I don't know what weight hammer spring it has but it is heavier than on another 1911 that doesn't set off the primers well. All 100 went off OK.

These primers were seated very deeply in a 1050 and were crushed like Revolver shooters do.

It looks like these primers are hard but not impossible to set off. Light springs won't work.

I hope this will help.

[GRW]

Hey Bill, thanks, i tried your suggestion and started seating my primers a little deeper on my 1050 and notice an immediate improvement. I was having problem with lot #18-09 in my M&P Pro (this has a polished and slightly lower and squared sear, but stock springs) seating the primers deeper has work great in the past 300rounds through the gun.

Greg

[twodownzero]

I actually had a "partial" ignition in my M&P, where the powder didn't all light. It seemed like a squib, but the bullet cleared the barrel. The slide didn't cycle and the brass that ejected was black and sooty, like a squib charge. I was not the shooter, as I had loaned my gun/ammo to a friend during an indoor match.

I'm pulling every round I had loaded with these primers and disposing of them. Once I realized that there was a problem, I started expending ammo that used them and didn't load any more. At this point, I'm convinced that continuing to use these primers is sufficiently unsafe that it's not worth the potential problems.

I ordered more (because it was all I could get at the time). As far as I'm concerned, Wolf primers have left a sour taste in my mouth. I'm going back to name brand primers from now on (Win, Fed, or CCI). I've never had any of those fail to go bang in all these years, and the few $$$ per thousand rounds is just not worth it.

FWIW, Wolf refunded the money I paid for the primers, but not the hazmat fee or shipping. So, basically, I got an extreme "discount" on them, rather than getting "free" primers.

I hope the 5k or so from the new batch will be reliable. If not, I'm going to have to get my hands on some decent SPP pretty soon.

The strange thing about this whole thing is that I went through a lot of these primers in the past. I'm pretty sure the primers I'm using now came from last August or so. I bought 3k of them at the time for me, and another 5k for a friend on the same order. And it appears that from the first box of them, they all went bang. The second box, I've had a lot of problems with. And I'm pretty sure I'm going to throw the third box out.

[JimmyZip]

I just loaded the last of these primers. After the 1K that I got the loose anvils in, the rest seem to have been fine. I only have about 350 rounds of loaded ammo with these, and I feel confident that they will go bang. The one box did have some loose anvils though, so I was careful loading tubes with the rest after that.

[twodownzero]

Update:

My 2nd batch of primers turned out to be just as bad as the old ones. Wolf claims that they do not have a problem, other than in "match guns." The switch from gold cups to silver ones made their primers harder, and they don't seem to have any plans of going back to the more sensitive gold cups.

I talked them into giving me a second refund. They don't seem to realize that some of us are having problems with completely STOCK guns. My S&W M&P Pro is EXACTLY how it came out of the box, has had zero modification whatsoever, and still won't run with these primers.

My recommendation is to avoid them at all costs. These primers are not reliable. I have had fewer problems in my STI than my M&P. I assume that this is because the mainspring in a 2011 has more power than the striker spring in the M&P. Either way, though, the light strikes have all had some pretty seriously strong dents in the primer. I had 3 malfunctions out of about 200 rounds at the Indiana Sectional match. I recovered two of the struck (but still live) rounds from the ground and I think I'll be sending them back with my receipt this time because they need to realize that they have a serious problem on their hands.

I backordered 5k of Federal from somewhere else and we'll see what shows up. Until then, I have no reliable small pistol primers to shoot any matches at all.

[MoNsTeR]

FWIW my Glocks that have failures with Wolfs set off Magtechs just fine. Cabela's has 'em in stock (at a so-so price).

[twodownzero]

I just got a hold of Chris @ Wideners, the customer service person there.

He is contacting Wolf and we will have some kind of answer here. I know I'm not the only one with problems, and I am happy to say that Chris has been very helpful in getting to the bottom of this.

[twodownzero]

It's important to note that Wolf has acknowledged that there are problems with the new manufacturing method. And those problems seem to have started when the primer color changed from bronze/brass to silver. They are working on getting it resolved, though.

If you're aware of who at Wolf has acknowledged this, I'd like to know. According to James @ Wolf, there is "no problem" other than with "match guns." I politely informed him that my bone stock S&W M&P chokes on these primers even more often than my STI.

I know I had 5,000 primers that all went off of the old style, and I have since had 14,000 that are complete and utter garbage.

I am working on figuring out how to return the second batch for my second refund. I had no idea that they have corrected nothing--the newest batch of primers are just as hard as the ones I had problems with from last year.

Chris @ Wideners continues to be helpful. We WILL get this sorted out and I will definitely get my refund. I hope I can figure out a legal way to return the primers as well, so that they can fix what they screwed up.

Edited April 14, 2010 by twodownzero

[Dodge DeBoulet]

It's important to note that Wolf has acknowledged that there are problems with the new manufacturing method. And those problems seem to have started when the primer color changed from bronze/brass to silver. They are working on getting it resolved, though.

If you're aware of who at Wolf has acknowledged this, I'd like to know. According to James @ Wolf, there is "no problem" other than with "match guns." I politely informed him that my bone stock S&W M&P chokes on these primers even more often than my STI.

I know I had 5,000 primers that all went off of the old style, and I have since had 14,000 that are complete and utter garbage.

I am working on figuring out how to return the second batch for my second refund. I had no idea that they have corrected nothing--the newest batch of primers are just as hard as the ones I had problems with from last year.

Chris @ Wideners continues to be helpful. We WILL get this sorted out and I will definitely get my refund. I hope I can figure out a legal way to return the primers as well, so that they can fix what they screwed up.

I have an email thread from them. The key portion of the exchange that triggered that post you quoted:

To Wolf Customer Service:

"Hello,

I'm following up to an issue I had with Wolf Small Pistol Primers. You graciously refunded the unused portion of the 10,000 primers I purchased, and for that I thank you. It's a sincere pleasure to deal with a company that believes so strongly in their products.

I'm writing because I need to purchase more primers, and was wondering if you had identified a specific lot number (or group of lot numbers) that were responsible for the large percentage of misfires I was experiencing.

If the answer is yes, and the problem has been corrected, I will be placing another order shortly and will happily purchase Wolf.

Thank you,

Dodge DeBoulet"

Wolf Customer Support responded:

"Dear Dodge,

No the problem has not been corrected, please do not repurchase any of our primers at this time, the problem has not been resolved, please note that we will not process another return for you at this time, since you are aware of the issues.

Sincerely,

WOLF Ammunition

Customer Service Department"

To which I replied:

"Thank you for the update, I do appreciate it. Believe me, I'm not looking for another refund . . . I just want some small pistol primers.

Is there any way I can get notification of when it's "safe" to buy your primers again? And is the problem limited only to small pistol primers? I will also be reloading for .44 magnum soon, which uses large pistol magnum primers.

Again, thanks!"

And Wolf's response:

"Dear Dodge,

The problem seems to be with the small pistol primers, they are harder then other brands of primers, many people I've spoke too however have been switching out their old firing pins with stronger or harder hitting ones with stronger springs and this seems to be eliminating the issues of misfires and failures to ignite. We do not know if and when our factory will be changing the primers, hopefully sooner then later.

Sincerely,

WOLF Ammunition

Customer Service Department"

Per Wolf's recommendation, I purchased a higher-powered striker spring for my M&P .40 with no improvement in reliability.

Edited April 15, 2010 by Dodge DeBoulet

[MoNsTeR]

Can we substantiate his claim that their Large Pistol primers work consistently? And would that also imply that Small Rifle are OK?

[twodownzero]

Can we substantiate his claim that their Large Pistol primers work consistently? And would that also imply that Small Rifle are OK?

I've not had any problems with any primers besides the small pistol primers. I've used Small Rifle Magnum, Large Rifle, Large Rifle Magnum, and Large Pistol.

[tydephan]

My father is having this exact issue with two of his stock pistols. A Glock 17 and a Glock 22. The .40cal rounds are the ones that are the most dysfunctional. My M&P40 will fire the reloads with wolf silver small pistol primers just fine. But not until I got a new striker assembly earlier this year from Smith. Dad's Glock 22 has a failure every 7 rounds, on average.

We've taken extra care to "crush" in the primers so they are seated properly. To no avail.

It also seems Wolf has changed their policy since this thread was originally created, as this was their reply to my inquiry today:

Unfortunately we do not offer a performance guarantee on our primers only our ammunition, we have found that there are too many variables that could effect the overall performance of a reloaded round not firing properly. We also are not permitted to have the primers sent back to us do to hazerdous material and warehouse safety issues and therefore have no way of accepting them back.

Sincerely,

WOLF Ammunition

Customer Service Department

For what it is worth, my lot number was 9-09, and we ordered ours from Wideners in mid July of last year. Wideners has also deferred all questions to

Wolf.

So, it looks like no more Wolf primers for us. I'm more than a little disappointed.