What do you think about adding a new class for Saiga?

[DMAC]

I've been following discussions regarding this with the open mind of a novice 3 gunner and I have made some observations.

1. The interest in the Saiga is growing

2. Other manufacturers will likely be making magazine fed shotguns in the near future

3. The number of people modifying the Saiga seems to be growing

4. Several people would like to shoot the Saiga, but don't want to go into "Open" (don't want to shoot open pistol and rifle)

5. There are varying opinions about competing with a Saiga in tactical-most seem against

6. There some stages in which an open magazine fed shotgun (or even a tactical shotgun) will be faster than a Saiga due to course design/shotshell requirements

Let me throw this out there. What about an "Tactical/Open Class"? If someone wants to compete with a "tactical handgun and rifle" but would like to shoot an "open" shotgun, then there will be no inequity in the pure "open" or "tactical" classes.

As more people become interested in shooting the Saiga and not wanting to shoot open, I could see this option becoming an increasingly popular class. In fact, I will go as far to say that I imagine in 2-5 years that the number of people competing in this new class would suprass the purely "open" class.

Those who have perfected the skill of reloading their magazing fed shotgun (or haven't and fumble and drop shells like me) can still compete in a class where an additional skill set will serve you well and likely outpeform the best of the Saiga shooters on many stages.

I think this will allow for some people like me (no time to practice reloading a shotgun with weak hand or strong hand) who only shoot a few 3 gun matches a year, to just go out and have fun and shoot their Saiga withoug getting blasted by the experts in open class or struggle to get shells in the shotgun without a yard sale. Having said this, I realize that there will some shotgun stages that will require slugs that will make that novice Saiga shooter wish they had competed with a magazing fed shotgun, but so be it.

I really think this depends on what people competing in 3 gun like to shoot and have fun with. This is a growing sport and I think it is important to foster that growth and continue to bring in new shooters. The best way to do this is to keep it fun for the less experience shooters and still keep it interesting and competitive for the top level shooters.

Anyway, I look forward to your feedback and it will be great to see where 3 gun is in 3-5 years

[GentlemanJim]

A new class would be kinda goofy and hard to sell

Just let them in tac class with an 8 round limit.

And in open ...let it all hang out

Jim

[Sean Gaines]

why dont we get a universal rule book for 3gun first. thats my2cents

[Brian Payne]

Hold on ----- let me get my popcorn ready.

[DMAC]

A new class would be kinda goofy and hard to sell

Just let them in tac class with an 8 round limit.

And in open ...let it all hang out

Jim

I agree that "currently" it would be goofy and hard to sell.

[DMAC]

why dont we get a universal rule book for 3gun first. thats my2cents

This sure would make it easier. I think that it would be difficult to get all of the major 3 gun competitions to agree on the "exact" same rules. However, they seem to be pretty close.

Perhaps someone with some time on their hands could build an excel spreadsheet with the top rules for the top 15 matches outlining the differences, hold a national meeting with represenatives from these competitions and organizations, hold a roundtable discusstion to propose a "national standard" of rules (with much deliberation) and then vote on those rules. Competitions could then be sanctioned under this organinzation of new rules.

I'm not sure how likely this is to happen and I'm glad the NRA hasn't taken this approach. It will be interesting to see how this evolves over the next few years.

[el pres]

Tac class with a "4" round limit !!

[D.Hayden]

4. Several people would like to shoot the Saiga, but don't want to go into "Open" (don't want to shoot open pistol and rifle)

I'm sure there are people with Open rifles or Open Pistols that feel the same way... why not have divisions for all 3? And one for Pump shotguns but everything else is TacScope... we could probably get about 15 new divisions..

If you want to shoot it, you're in Open...

The R&R match does have a seperate divsion for this.. so there's some hope for you. As the shotgun popularity grows... who knows.. it could happen.. yuo need to convince the match organizers.

[J-Ho]

Hold on ----- let me get my popcorn ready.

Another 3 gun rule thread. Woohoo!

I think we need a unified set of rules on how to bitch about 3 gun rules.

[norbs007]

I agree with Jim, let the Tactical/Limited be and all out for Open. Let's face it, swapping a magazine is a lot faster than hand loading each round.

[DMAC]

4. Several people would like to shoot the Saiga, but don't want to go into "Open" (don't want to shoot open pistol and rifle)

I'm sure there are people with Open rifles or Open Pistols that feel the same way... why not have divisions for all 3? And one for Pump shotguns but everything else is TacScope... we could probably get about 15 new divisions..

If you want to shoot it, you're in Open...

The R&R match does have a seperate divsion for this.. so there's some hope for you. As the shotgun popularity grows... who knows.. it could happen.. yuo need to convince the match organizers.

You bring up an interesting point. Perhaps you could have a seperate division in which ANY ONE of your guns can be and open gun. You choose (rifle, pistol, or shotugn).

[DMAC]

Hold on ----- let me get my popcorn ready.

Another 3 gun rule thread. Woohoo!

I think we need a unified set of rules on how to bitch about 3 gun rules.

I'm sorry if this thread struck a nerve. That was not my intent. I know there have been other posts regarding this. It is not in any way meant to complain about current classes. I'm just making an observation and sharing some ideas. Since it appears that the interest in competing with a Saiga is growing, I thought there would be some other more experienced competitors with some constructive thoughts as well.

Best Regards,

Damien

Edited June 16, 2009 by DMAC

[el pres]

Hold on ----- let me get my popcorn ready.

Another 3 gun rule thread. Woohoo!

I think we need a unified set of rules on how to bitch about 3 gun rules.

Alright, you can start with 9 in the gun but can only use 4 round mags !!

[smokshwn]

I think we should just get a class/division for everybody....to include equally sized trophies and prizes.....that way we could all be special...just like everyone else

[SinistralRifleman]

I think a Tactical-Mag Fed Shotgun class with 9 round magazine limit and iron sights only allowed would see increasing popularity. Most people getting these don't like shooting in open division. Tactical Scope has the most shooters at any competition. Usually 2-4 times the amount of other divisions. What's wrong with breaking this up a little bit?

[DMAC]

I think a Tactical-Mag Fed Shotgun class with 9 round magazine limit and iron sights only allowed would see increasing popularity. Most people getting these don't like shooting in open division. Tactical Scope has the most shooters at any competition. Usually 2-4 times the amount of other divisions. What's wrong with breaking this up a little bit?

I think at Blue Ridge there were about 5 times as many shooters in tactical compared to other divisions. I really don't care about prizes or awards, but I'm sure that would be a major consideration for others. Unfortunately, I know of no sponsorship from Saiga for 3 Gun competitions.

I've heard an internet rumor that CMMG is working on a mag fed shotgun. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

[el pres]

I just find it hard to see that "anybody" out there is saying they will not shoot 3gun at all just because they cant

use their Saiga ? You just cant possibly make everybody happy when rules are involed but we have to have them.

I dont see anybody pushing for just optics or just comps in USPSA Limted. Thats because the rules are well established.

Universal 3gun rules anyone ??

[bigbrowndog]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Matches already allow them in Tactical!!!!!!!!!!!

you stand a better chance of getting the budget balanced than getting a UNIFIED set of 3 gun/ Multigun rules.

So what you are trying to accomplish is either already done or it's not going to happen,

Trapr

[CocoBolo]

This reminds me of NASCAR every time they tried to cut the cost of racing it just about broke every team.

The Saiga has an unfair advantage over the conventional shot gun, not in shooting but in reloading, if I get beat on a shotgun stage it is the reloading. To level the playing field let them use them however they may only start with one loaded mag, all other reloading must be done from no more than 4 shotgun cartridges in the weak hand into the mag once loaded the mag may be inserted. They just need to velcro the empty mags to their thigh to load one handed.

It cost a lot of money to get equipped for 3-Gun, don't make everyone go to a Saiga just to compete.

I'm working on a belt fed Rem 1100, belts will only have 11 rounds so they should be legal, right?

[J-Ho]

Hold on ----- let me get my popcorn ready.

Another 3 gun rule thread. Woohoo!

I think we need a unified set of rules on how to bitch about 3 gun rules.

I'm sorry if this thread struck a nerve. That was not my intent. I know there have been other posts regarding this. It is not in any way meant to complain about current classes. I'm just making an observation and sharing some ideas. Since it appears that the interest in competing with a Saiga is growing, I thought there would be some other more experienced competitors with some constructive thoughts as well.

Best Regards,

Damien

Your OP was not the problem. BUT every time something even close to this gets brought up it usually devolves pretty quickly. Specially when someone mentions unified rules.

Edited June 16, 2009 by J-Ho

[el pres]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Matches already allow them in Tactical!!!!!!!!!!!

you stand a better chance of getting the budget balanced than getting a UNIFIED set of 3 gun/ Multigun rules.

So what you are trying to accomplish is either already done or it's not going to happen,

Trapr

Trapr, are you saying we should do a pole [dance] ??

POLL -- http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...mp;hl=3gun+poll

Edited June 16, 2009 by P.Pres

[RiggerJJ]

to answer the OP:

NOT ONLY NO, BUT........... NO!

jj

ps; OK I got a little lippy, sorry...

Work your equipment within the parameters of the classes we now have. RM3G has 5 classes, choose one and go for it! Just about any of our classes will work for everyone. We need MORE non-Tactical Scope shooters!!!

and by the way, Open class isn't so bad, you get to do just about anything you want with your kit!

Edited June 16, 2009 by RiggerJJ

[bigbrowndog]

oh, please could we!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

come on JJ how do you really feel???????????

Trapr

Edited June 16, 2009 by bigbrowndog

[the gman 763]

Anyone who wants to shoot a Saiga (& I will shortly be one of them) should be shooting in Open. If you want to do it on a budget, you can. No-one is saying that you have to go out & blow $3 to 5K on an Open pistol, there are options well below that. Similarly with your rifle, you don't need a JP to be competitive at any level of the sport.

I just got back from the MGM Ironman & was shooting on the same squad as Matt Burkett (the winner, again.... ) & there were 3 others in that squad shooting Saigas. Robert Johnson was shooting a nice R&R Racing prepped Saiga as was Dustin Lohof. Despite both Dustin & RJ being very experienced Open shooters, Matt, shooting his trusty Benelli & using sticks, won the day. Skill, not equipment is paramount in 3 gun. Having a good plan, shooting that plan & being on top of your game is what counts.

I think we will see new shooters rising to the top in Open & the Saiga will help for sure. I shot Open & hand stuffed my reliable as hell Beretta Extrema because I just didn't want to invest in all the crap that goes along with sticks but I do love shooting my Open pistol. My rifle this year was my coyote gun with a Leupold VX-III 3.5 -10 on it. I just can't miss with this thing but it also isn't a usual Open rifle.

My point is that you don't necessarily have to copy the top open guys with equipment to win or place highly. Spending more time on the range will raise your game more than anything else, whether you shoot a Saiga or anything else. Get out & shoot!!!

[EkuJustice]

I will say keep the different divisions the way they are and be done with it. I might want to shoot a single stack 1911, but a 223 scoped rifle. Does that mean we should have a special class for that since Its not competative in tactical where people are shooting the 20+ round mags? They key difference between the open shotgun and the limited shotgun is the reload plain and simple. With the saiga the reloading skill would be gone especially with the bolt hold open, mag well where you dont need to rock the mag in etc. People wouldnt shoot the saiga because they have such a love for the saiga platform,they would do it because they want every advantage they can get, it would be shot because it is what would be required to win on the shotgun stages. Allow it in anything but open and you force the tactical people to have to upgrade to a new shotgun to stay competative. Whats easier cranking in 8 shells by hand or slapping in a 10 round mag downloaded to 8 that would load like the ar if you have the magwell on the gun. Take 2 like talent shooters and the saiga will be much faster. If the other shooters in tactical have to load their mag one at a time with no speed loaders then if they want a saiga in tactical they should have 1 mag and load that 1 at a time just like the other shooters in the division do.