Bianchi Cup Advise

[lrjet]

Currently Jay is finishing up my open cup auto. I have only shot 1 match at Kansas City and am going to give it a go this May and I know I will be WAY out of my league. For those that can remember your first time, what did you come away with "the shoulda coulda advise". If nothing else I am going to really enjoy watching all you top and pro shooters. Thx Dave

[Alan550]

Dave, a whole book could be written on that one! The hardest thing to do is just go in with the attitude that you're going to have a good time, and TRY to not let "match-nerves" get to you. Impossible, I know, but try anyway.

Get to the practice range if possible, just before you shoot in the main match to get warmed up instead of going to the match "cold".

Take plenty of ammo, and DON'T mix practice and match ammo especially if they're different. Saw a guy get DQ'd because he had lead ammo for practice mixed with his jacketed match ammo when he went to check-in at a match. Silly mistake, but it happens to some.

Ask questions whenever you have doubts. The ROs are very helpful and want you to succeed. Take your time on reloads and preparation to shoot, don't get in a hurry thinking you're holding others up and goof in some way. One of the top shooters, who shall remain anonymous here, dropped a used mag with one round still in it into the "full-mag' side of his range bag by mistake. A couple of strings later he put it back in the gun, and was immediately down 40 points!

Bag your gun as soon as the stage is finished. Carrying it around in the holster can get it knocked out in the crowd and you'll be done. Also, hang on to the gun while placing your shooting mats at various stages, so as to not let it fall.

I'm sure you'll hear from others on this topic, as there are a million things to remember, but that's all I have for right now.

Have fun and "shoot 'em in the middle!"

See you there.

Alan~^~

[lrjet]

Thanks: Going with a small group that have shot the cup before so that will help. You made some good points, yeah know there are many, sounds like a good turn out this year b fun.

[colt]

shooting mats

Take plenty of ammo, and DON'T mix practice and match ammo especially if they're different. Saw a guy get DQ'd because he had lead ammo for practice mixed with his jacketed match ammo when he went to check-in at a match. Silly mistake, but it happens to some.

I too am going to this match for the first time. I have never shot Action Pistol. I won a entry at a ICORE match so I am lost too.

Do I need a mat ? Why did that guy get DQ 'd if he didn't shoot any of those rounds ? I shoot lead bullets I cast my self. They won me the entry so I was going to shoot them . Is that a problem ?

I shoot USPSA , ICORE but this will be a different !! I don't want to make any stupid mistakes and get sent home !

How many rounds should I take ?

I appreciate any advice

Thanks Brent

[Jman]

My biggest hang up shooting Bianchi matches is the clock. Par time is a challenge for USPSA shooters. We suffer from HFL (Hit Factor Lust). I can fake it pretty good on the Barricade, Mover and Plates. I normally throw up down the front of myself on the Practical. And it's only because I don't use the time I get and rush. Bye Bye points. Use the time.

Jim

[Alan550]

He was DQd because you have to shoot the same ammo throughout the match, and he had 2 different kinds in his bag. Lead bullets are fine, so long as you don't mix-&-match during the event. All of it has to be the same bullet design, weight and velocity.

Take at least 400 rds for the match and side events. At each stage, they'll take 6 rds from you for the chrono, some from your mags and some from the extra that you have with you. You have to take at least 100 rds to each stage in case of a reshoot due to equipment failure, and you're not allowed to leave the area until you're done shooting, equipment failure or not.

They supply the mats, and you can't use yours in the match, only at the practice range.

So far as total rounds to take, that depends on how much you want to practice that week. Your decision. It's not unusual for some of us to go through 200-300 rounds per day at the practice range. Depending upon your shooting times, you may not get much practice range time in. If you have early morning times, you won't practice as much as you will if you get later match times.

Welcome to the Bianchi shooting world!!

Alan~^~

Edited February 21, 2009 by Alan550

[DougCarden]

here is my take from my first year last year.....bear with me.

Start every practice on the plate rack and end it on the plate rack. Add 5 yds to each distance when you practice. Instead of 7yds start at 12 and work back. Couple weeks before the cup slide up to the regular distances and you will have more confidence.

If you can, go down early and use the practice range, especially for the mover. The experienced guys will help you out and answer questions, they sure were good for me!

Take extra ammo, and make sure it is all the same stuff...( I got a deal on some noslers and loaded them up....) they didnt shoot the same as my match ammo and threw me off when I was practicing and they hit different at longer distances....I didnt want to change my sights....

Bring spare parts kits and extra gear incase you loose something important cleaing the gun or it breaks. Bring your own targets, pasters, and centers for the practice range. It beats trying to scrounge some.

Practice everything in the same way and manner the match runs. Shoot the 50yds stage from close back to far everytime. that way when you do it at the big match it is the same thing you do all the time, no big deal, right????LOL

Have a routine with your mags, etc. so you do the same thing all the time, especially when you are under stress in case you go on autopilot.......

I agree with all of Alan550s advice as well.......

If you have spare time shoot the side events, but take all your stuff with you and prepare to wait in line, it is a lot of fun!

I would not shoot lead bullet ammo for the main match. The thought of spending the money, time, and effort and not being able to see the damn target due to smoke would just piss me off. Dont get me wrong, I shoot a lot of lead ammo for practice, but for the big matches I pony up for the jacketed bullets. If I am staying in a hotel I shoot jacketed!

Hope this helps......

see you there,

DougC

[oldtrooper]

Every thing Doug has said is spot on for preparing for the real thing. In addition I have found that reducing one second in the times when practicing will build confidence. For instance:

Plates: Five Seconds, Six Seconds, Seven Seconds, Eight Seconds at the respective distances or

the same reduced times at the added distances as Doug said. When shooting at the normal

times in the real thing you won't feel as pressured especially if you make a bobble on the

first shot in getting into position you'll know you can make the time.

Apply the same time reduction to the other stages when practicing except of course the MOVER.

[lrjet]

When shooting a stage how do you guys bring your mags to the line. I would think a small range bag and a light portable stand to facilitate loads and reloads. Going to the line with multiple mag pouches or using your pockets would be a hindrance especially going prone. Thanks to all for the great responses.

[Allgoodhits]

When shooting a stage how do you guys bring your mags to the line. I would think a small range bag and a light portable stand to facilitate loads and reloads. Going to the line with multiple mag pouches or using your pockets would be a hindrance especially going prone. Thanks to all for the great responses.

All good advice provided by Doug, Alan and Billy. Regarding the pouch thing, many use two 4 gang pouches avalable from Uncle Mikes or similar vendor. This way you have on your person enough ammo to shoot an entire event. Some after removing the mag from the gun, those mags are dropped into the range bag, so that there is no chance to reload an empty mag intoi the gun, since all mags that go into the gun come from the pouch and they are loaded. Also having the mags on your person, prevent the need to bend over, further risking a gun drop from the holster.

Regarding loading mags. Once the command to load and make ready is given, then the range remains hot until that entire event (48 rounds) is finished, or until given the command to unload by an RSO. Whatever your system is DO NOT CHANGE IT! If you load 6 in the mag, then do that for every mag, if it is 7 then that is the number for every mag. BTW, many will load 7 rds in the mags, that way after all normal strings or combo of strings at each distance, there remain a chamber round in the gun. Your system and comfort should dictate.

Now here is a bit of advice that you likely have not heard. This will boost your confidence and prove to others that you can shoot the scores you claim you do. Most of us tend to shoot better in practice, than we do in matches for a variety of reasons, and this is not the thread to discuss all zillions of those reasons. However, we all use a yardstick to measure our successes and failures. This yardstick is the numerical score! I do not agree, in most cases, with the practice of modifying the time limits or the distances for practice, in an effort to enhance the training, so that the actual event is less difficult. Taking segments of a match and making it a training drill, for an isolated problem is different. We all have our methods of training that works for us. Many are quite individualized. (I think Doug and Bruce practice standing in a hammock or in a canoe!) I do believe in the following:

So as not to alter anything about the COF or the time limits, and to NOT let yourself get discouraged if your match scores are less than your practice scores, then consider doing the following: When scoring your targets in practice, if a bullet hole touches the line of a scoring ring, instead of giving yourself the higher value per scoring rules, access yourself the lower value. You then will work hard at making the shots better over the exact same COF under the exact same time limits. The ONLY difference is the scoring. Then, when you get to a match, your targets will be scored with line touches as the higher value. This may then reveal match scores as high as or maybe higher than practice scores, which is a confidence builder and a redeemer. A redeemer because if you tell your friends that you shoot 1860-1870, then you do it in a match, then you have proved your words, thus not dragging your chin on the ground when the match score drops by 20-50 points. Remember, we get wrapped around the yardstick (score) instead of just shooting each shot as good as we can make within the time limit that we have to do it. IF, we could all just shoot the best groups we can, centered as much as possible on the target, then score all of it when it is all over, we would be better off. One of the difficult aspects of AP, is that we see too much and know too much as we are shooting. The scoring and visible shots become a distraction. Those who excel in AP accumulate the best scores by being prepared and mentally tough. There have been many outstanding shooters at BC whom have not been able to maintain the mental toughness to excel. The scoring variable may serve as having a stablizing effect on your mental attitude when your practice scores are re-enforced with match scores at least numerically. I guess, you could just have someone who doesn't like score all of your practice targets too.

Regarding the scoring. As you get closer to shooting practice scores in matches, then you could modify the scoring by the 50% rule. If the bullet hole is more than 50% on one side of the line than the other, then you get that shot value. As your skills and performances increase then it could be adjusted again, and again. This method, is simply an extreme example of conservative scoring. At matches, we will always encounter the conservative scorer, this may help you prepare for that too.

One has maximized there current potential, when they can perform "at will" under match conditions to the same standard that they do in practice. Lastly, just come to the Cup to learn, shoot and have some fun. If you can keep that as your #1 goals everything else will take care of it self, and surprisingly you probably will shoot good too.

Ready, Standby.......

for ton of fun!

Martin

[BigDave]

If the club you shoot at uses buzzers to single the start of the Barricade and Practical, start teaching yourself to look at the targets, especially on the Practical. I remember in 2006 at the 50 yd like I had this bad habit at my home club to look at a spot on the mat and go to it when I went prone. That doesn't work so well with turning targets. Actually, the turning targets freaked me out a bit the first time I shot them.

Take enough practice ammo and spend your time at the practice range wisely. Learn how to run the mover and offer to run it for a few people and they will return the favor.

Make friends with the Aussies and Kiwi's. They are a riot and some of the damn nicest people I've ever met in the sports.

Some people are pretty fanatic about cleaning. I'm not and wasn't there. The only thing you need to worry about is if you have a "dirty" load, that it will stack up on you a the practice range. If you clean, do it at the practice range and be sure to shoot a mag or two through the gun (the Plates are a good test for this at 20 and 25) before you head back to the Chapman range. I don't think I did a full strip the whole week, but I would take the top end off, wipe down the barrel and run a bore snake, re-lube and get back to it.

ENJOY YOURSELF!!! It is just a match. Watch how Doug, Bruce, Mike, Tony, TGO, Vance and Phil approach the match. Rob will be cracking jokes, Doug won't be talking to a soul and for everyone else it is just another day at the office.

[goldfieldshooter]

Thank you 'Big Dave'

We Kiwis' and Aussies look on the trip to BC as an annual vacation. That is not to say we don't take it seriously but it has to be enjoyed. We travel between Australia and NZ( cross the ditch ) to shoot on a regular basis but to come to BC is a hilight. BUT don't make it more than what it is. It is a graded shoot. You are shooting against shooters in your own grade. If you haven't shot the match before you are' ungraded'. Simple. You are not coming in your first year to beat Doug & Bruce. If you have any questions do not hesitate to mail me or approach us on the range. We are always ready to answer your questions, it might cost you a beer or five, but good info doesn't come cheap.

coatesy

[1911onr]

If it wasn't stated before, always check the function of your safeties after every reassembly. Some people learned the hard way at the S&W Indoor IDPA nationals this year.

[gmantwo]

I've been practicing by loading 12 in my mags(production), is there anything wrong with that? I'm able to shoot an entire position on the practical without having to worry about mag changes. That's my preference, if there's nothing "wrong" with doing it that way. The weight doesn't hurt the recoil either.

Edited April 21, 2009 by gmantwo

[benos]

The first lesson I remember - don't tape your targets in practice. If you do, you will learn to depend on the "tape group" that will accumulate in the middle of the target as an aiming point, which you won't have in the match.

I couldn't afford to buy enough targets to not tape, so I made a template out of thin, stiff cardboard with the 3 scoring rings in it. You can buy brown paper (that's close to the same color as the targets) in big rolls, 24" wide. Then I'd rig up a section on my workbench and I'll razor off the 18" wide "center," then draw the scoring circles on it so you could just barely see them, with a pencil.

Then tape them on the targets at the same time they change targets, in the match. Which is halfway through each stage in the match.

I know that sounds like a lot of work... but definitely come up with a solution other than taping the targets. At the longer distances, it's critical that you teach yourself to find the center of the targets without relying on anything but the shape of the target itself.

be

[Toolguy]

The new targets have a 4" solid black x ring and you can get 4" solid black pasters to go over them. Now you can

just repair the center with one stickie ( and the regular little brown square ones if required).

[Action Pistolero]

gmantwo,

I would atleast run 13 rounds in each mag. That way, if you have a jam you still have an extra round.

See ya in May.

[kimmbeckwith]

My advise from a few years of experiance is use the ground to your advantage. Learn to get on the ground fast, thus giving yourself more target time. Look at only your target and yours only. You are competing against yourself, if you haven't shot clean in practice your chance under pressure are even less. x's are great, but you need the points first. Try to give yourself plenty of time getting from the practice range to THE RANGE. If it's going to happen it will happen at the cup! That is why practice what you shoot and shoot what you practice. Don't change when you get to the cup, if you see somthing you want to change take it home for next year.

Good luck and have FUN!

Kim

Edited April 21, 2009 by Kim M. Beckwith

[gmantwo]

Got a question. Might should go in Reloading though. I've been practicing with 155gr lead bullets. With fixed sights that's the load that I could get to shoot point of aim(128pf) at 20yds. I'm planning to switch to Jacketed bullets for the match, but the only bullets I have in .40 are 165 JHP. I can order heavier(180), or lighter(155) if I need to. If I load the 165's to the same speed(not pf) shouldn't they shoot to the same height? Slower loads shoot higher, faster loads shoot lower, in general, I think that's right. I'm away from home until 6 days before we leave for Columbia, and I'm tied up 2 of those days, so I'm armchair preparing, lol.

[Flexmoney]

You are changing to an unknown load...the week before the match ?

[ciscoip]

Got a question. Might should go in Reloading though. I've been practicing with 155gr lead bullets. With fixed sights that's the load that I could get to shoot point of aim(128pf) at 20yds. I'm planning to switch to Jacketed bullets for the match, but the only bullets I have in .40 are 165 JHP. I can order heavier(180), or lighter(155) if I need to. If I load the 165's to the same speed(not pf) shouldn't they shoot to the same height? Slower loads shoot higher, faster loads shoot lower, in general, I think that's right. I'm away from home until 6 days before we leave for Columbia, and I'm tied up 2 of those days, so I'm armchair preparing, lol.

Assuming you have enough of them, why not just shoot what you practice with?

[gmantwo]

Well, because I noticed something that was mentioned in another post but didn't register until I read it on DougCarden's post. While practicing the practical and going prone at 50yds, I was looking toward the sun and while the smoke from the lube on the lead bullets didn't completely obscure the target, I could see where it could really become a hindrance. Here's his take "I would not shoot lead bullet ammo for the main match. The thought of spending the money, time, and effort and not being able to see the damn target due to smoke would just piss me off. " and it makes much sense to me.

Changing loads doesn't really bother me, I shoot different loads all the time for IPSC, the Masters, Production, Limited, Open, Major, Minor, etc. The main problem is I work away from home and don't get home until Wednesday the 13th. I will only have Thursday, Friday and Sunday to work the load, practice some more and get everything ready to go on Tuesday. NO PROBLEM!! LOL

[gm iprod]

If you have enough 165gr JHP available now go with that. You will need minimum 300 for the match and another 500 for practice the two or three days you should be in MO before the match. Another 300 if you intend to shoot the practice match. If you have more available take as much as you can. The more the better. Just ensure everything is well past 120pf. 130pf is better. Remember some powders react differently with lead than with JHP. But ingeneral the smoke is mostly from the lube.

As ActionPistolero said load at least 13 in each mag, just in case, I used a Para for ages and loaded 15 in every mag.

With the new targets you will not see the blob of buff pasters as badly as with the old ones. The black centre dominates the whole target, so you just don't get as badly distracted by the buff . I use a 4" black centre to patch out and only use the buff pasters for holes outside the X. Put them on first and then the black centre to hide any over runs from the buff pasters. Targets reused this way seem to last longer. The week leading into the cup I prefer to run new targets as much as I can afford. Just to settle the brain.

If there is anything you need help with just yell.

[BigDave]

I load 15 rounds in my SV when I shoot AP, too.

[gmantwo]

Well, I live in MO, so I'll definetely be there 3 days before the match, lol. We're going up to Columbia on Teusday the 19th though. We have the plate rack, barricades, practical and a mover set up to practice on. Living so close to the match, I'm rather amazed that I've never shot it up 'til now. That's the main reason I got into shooting the Masters. If a major match is within 200 miles of your home, you really ought to shoot it.

My shooting buddy hasn't been to the Bianchi in 10 years, and is shooting a revolver in production this time, has won his class before, so he's helping me out a lot.

Thanks gm iprod. I ordered 1k MG 155's in case the 165's don't shoot point of aim. I'll work up a load with them for the match, one that duplicates the lead load, practice with the lead and take the jacketed bullets to the match. Should give me about 900 rounds to take.