speed Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Anybody hear anything about bullet prices comming down. Metals are way down lately. Prices should reflect new metals costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atbarr Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Anybody hear anything about bullet prices comming down. Metals are way down lately. Prices should reflect new metals costs. Your right, they should. A.T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhotoRecon Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I'm seeing shot come down to the low 20's per bag. I haven't seen any change at all on lead handgun bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 previously stated: until the demand goes down the prices will stay the same as they are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZ Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 So your theory then is that the shotgunner's don't use as much lead shot and therefore the prices for shot have dropped....but the prices for bullets hasn't....or is it that manufactures are just out to make a buck easier off those who shoot pistols/rifles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 So your theory then is that the shotgunner's don't use as much lead shot and therefore the prices for shot have dropped....but the prices for bullets hasn't....or is it that manufactures are just out to make a buck easier off those who shoot pistols/rifles? This is probably accurate as the cost of reloading shotgun isn't as much the saver as it once was. But with all the people buying components in bigger quantities as of late, it will be a while for bullet pricing to reflect metals because of higher demand. Gas is coming back up too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 PhotoRecon wrote: I'm seeing shot come down to the low 20's per bag. I haven't seen any change at all on lead handgun bullets. Shhh! Don't say that! Now that I have my birdshot maker up and running. It makes me feel good to know I can make my own when people in other parts of the country are still paying $45 on up to about to $60 for a 25 lb bag of shot. putting the bug in your ear mode on... For about $133 you can get all set up to cast your own bullets: Lee 20 lb dripomatic pot ...... $66 Lee Aluminum 6 boolit mould for .40 cal ..... $38.49 Lee Handles for the 6 banger moulds .... $13 Lee Push Through Sizer for .40 cal.... $15.49 (I am ASSuming that most of the people here already have a single stage press collecting dust somewhere in their reloading rooms, in order to use the Lee push through sizer.) Head down to your local Mom and Pop tire shop and if you're lucky you can talk them out of their wheelweights for free. Worst is they will say "No." The middle ground is they will charge you a dime to 20 cents a pound for them. According to my math, 1,000 count 180 grain .40 cal projectiles will tip the scales at 25.7 pounds. You will NOT be able to lift a full 5 gallon bucket of wheelweights, about 130 pounds plus, into your vehicle or onto the back of your truck. So ASSuming that you could get 100 pounds of useable lead out of the wheelweights ( the clips are steel and don't melt), that would be just about 4K bullets. If you had to pay 20 cents a pound for the total weight, your bullets would have cost you just $26. I will leave it to all you accountants out there to amortize the cost of casting equipment for the rest of the figuring. If you're an open shooter, and you need those uber expensive copper plated bullets, well, I guess casting ain't for you then. It costs to go that fast. My only other solution for you guys is, well, airsoft, or buy a .22 LR conversion kit. I suspect that lead prices will jump up again later this year as China brings their el cheapo electric car on line and to America. All that lead is needed for the batteries, dontchya know? And then next year or the year after that, Chevy is supposed to unleash their Volt onto the market too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 If you looked at these two charts, it appears that both lead and copper are almost a third of what they were going for this time last year. Yeah, I know, there's a little more to bullet making than just purchasing the raw materials, so you can't really ASSume that bullet prices should be a third of what they were last year.... but still..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzygä Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Guys that thing looks like dollar. When it goes up for euro everything cost more (prices go up) for us here Europe but when dollar go down prices stay the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speed Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 (edited) Guys that thing looks like dollar. When it goes up for euro everything cost more (prices go up) for us here Europe but when dollar go down prices stay the same. To me I feel that they are capitalizing on shooters. Metals are down- way down. Dont you think manufacturers are putting in large orders as we speek to lock in at current lower price? come on now! Lets see if they reflect the new pricing on bullets anytime soon. We know they are paying a lot less for materials. Are we supposed to be pro gun- to get more people shooting, or not? How are people gonna get or be able to afford to get into this sport when manufacturers are keeping prices of components so high? Of course if materials are up were going to pay a premium, but when they are way down we should pay less..rite? I'm not that bad in math! I've been shooting all the matches for 10 years now and it has really gotten out of control.... really ridiculous. I usally buy about 18k bullets a year. I have a receipt in front of me showing price in early 2005 for example 125gr jhp's were $41/k. Doubled now! I won't mention manufacturer but We all know anyway. I know it was 4 years ago but hey lets look at prices of materials back then to now. Bet not much difference. Bottom line I feel that many shooters are not shooting as much and to me thats not a good thing. To manufacturers: lets keep the prices of components as low as you can, lets support this sport that we enjoy so much. Look down the long road... you'll still make your money and at same time keep this sport thriving. More people will shoot. Lets not shy people away with unafordable pricing!. We have enough to deal with in our sport to keep it alive. Edited January 25, 2009 by speed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingchef Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Simple: Supply and demand. Producers are producing and selling everything they make at current prices. Why change? It is a slippery slope to expect producers to change their pricing due to "feelings" and "whats right". If you don't like the prices don't buy it. The market will adjust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I have 35,000 .45 brass, but only about 3000 bullets to fill the brass. You figure out why! the bullet prices are out of line! Supply and demand, fine, I get it, but price gouging is price gouging, and that is what is going on. Tuesday, when I get home, I am purchasing an Airsoft gun and the corresponding "steel" targets to go with it. Enough is enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speed Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 Simple: Supply and demand. Producers are producing and selling everything they make at current prices. Why change? It is a slippery slope to expect producers to change their pricing due to "feelings" and "whats right". If you don't like the prices don't buy it. The market will adjust. Ok so if nobody cares about how shooters feel/think then what if shooters bought nothing. How will market adjust then???? who will be buying then?? This goes right down the line. Shooters are still buying because this is a transition period from lower prices to high prices. They have been shooting for a long time. They are not gonna stop on a dime. Many have a lot of money invested. Give it time and they will slow down drastically if not maybe worse move on to other hobbys.... Not a good thing! Think about it, somebody buys a gun goes to shop to buy ammo buys one or two boxes then realizes how much it just cost to shoot for 15 minutes. Gun goes back in safe. This is a really good thing..no? Bottom line, respect the sport stop the gouging! I'm finished venting now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 OK, i posted this previously, but I will do it again now. I can tell you/us how to make a stand and MAKE bullet prices drop!!! So listen up folks! IF everyone here on this forum gets together and does NOT buy from a certain bullet maker (take your pick as long as it is one of the MAJOR USPSA suppliers ) for 2 months, that bullet company ( bullet company "A" from now on) would drip their prices in an attempt to regain their market share. At that point, everyone would then buy from from bullet company "A" and the other bullet companies would be forced to lower their respective prices to match bullet company "A's" prices to regain their share. YES, it is called collusion, and it works. It takes a bit of time, but IF you hit them in their pockets, the SAME way they have done to us, WE will begin to determine the prices, NOT the suppliers. Take note, it would work, and most likely NOT take two months, but that is a very safe estimate on guaranteeing my plan working. So, stop your B!TCHING and get together and make it work. It would not matter which company you choose, but everyone needs to be on the same page. Action works, talk is cheap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I just recieved 12k bullets Friday. Personally, I don't think the manufacturers are out of line. Costs go up and I've been paying the same price for over a year. I would rather see a company, especially my favorite bullet manufacturer, make some money, therefore securing it's existance in the future. We have lost several good companies in the past because it got to a point they couldn't make a profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viggen Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 To paraphrase, if it's too much don't buy. And that's what I'm doing , not buying. Like ZHunter I have a few few pieces of brass around but not that much in the way of bullets. And if prices stay up I'm not going to buy much. And really, it's moved into the range where it's beginning to make sense to cast you own, just like we did when we were all much younger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALRAY Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I'm with Viggen and zhunter. Don't buy! We usually put in big group orders and buy enough to cover at least the next 12 months of shooting. I won't buy anymore until prices come down. If I run out of 40's, I'll start loading 9mm and shoot production for a while. If I run out of that, I'll switch to rimfire steel, etc. I have to much work twice as hard to make the same amount of money now so I don't have time shoot as much as I want anyway. If everyone changes their purchasing habits, prices will come down. Why buy today if you know prices have to come down? And if they don't, I will only buy the absolute minimum required. No way do I want to be sitting on heads that cost $110/k six months from now when they will be going for $60/k. I refuse to get gouged! Just like I refuse to pay $200+ for an AR lower. DON"T BUY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underlug Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 So your theory then is that the shotgunner's don't use as much lead shot and therefore the prices for shot have dropped....but the prices for bullets hasn't....or is it that manufactures are just out to make a buck easier off those who shoot pistols/rifles? Here is my Sunday morning theory: 1. Manufacturers want to make more money than less and will charge what they will to maximize their profits. 2. Manufacturers, especially the larger ones, locked themselves into long term supply contracts or amassed high cost materials to insure production in the future. Those costs are fixed into those bullets. Because future prices and supply are questionable, it would be problematic to "average" the higher cost material with the current lower prices. In accounting terms, they are thinking "FIFO" (first in, first out) and the prices they are (trying) to charge reflect the cost of the bullet sold. 3. Prices are sticky downward. Look at gasoline. Look at the price of oil. While I doubt the bullet manufacturers are intentionally restricting bullet supply as the oil companies are restricting the refinement of gasoline, they will still produce where their marginal cost comes closest to their marginal revenue and price at the point people will pay. People are cheerfully paying for gas now at today's prices despite the lower cost of oil (check gas prices the last time oil was @33) and we will be grateful for any relief from the prices of today. Preceeding was worth what you paid for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nashvillebill Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I'm not sold on casting yet. From what I've been told, melting, casting, sizing and lubing 1K bullets is an all day affair. Not even considering the acquiring, storing, the mess and health concerns. I can get 2K 230 grain delivered for for about $150, buying still looks like a bargain to me. I believe this type of thinking has more to do with pricing than materials cost. Identifying the balance between "what's worth doing" and "what's worth paying for" and hitting that mark is what keeps business and personal finances in good shape. If materials prices were guaranteed to stay at todays prices and impending politics were favorable to our sport, I think we would see a stream of new bullet manufacturers starting up and undercutting each other untill we were all grinning. It would be great if bullets were cheaper, it would not be great if we lose companys that are willing to risk making a product that's subject to a volatile market, political scorn and the possibillity of materials being commandeered for zero emmision vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I like the idea of everyone on the forum to stop buying bullets then maybe there won't be the 8 week backorder for my bullets. I do not have the budget to get the over 10,000 piece price break not the room to store it. I have placed one manufacturer on the do not buy from list because of their pricing practice that has now been rescinded. Yes it would be nice if bullet prices came down but I don't hear the same complaints about primers which have continued to go up for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzShooter Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I started casting for black powder shooting many years ago but last year the price of bullets just went TOO high for me. One of my casters use to charge $28 per thousand for 158 grain RNL. He went to $43 and then the price of lead put him out of business for a while so I switched to Billy Bullets. Great bullets and I like the Moly coating for no smoke but prices soon skyrocketed to $70 per thousand. Well, I had my pot, I ordered a 6 banger LEE mould and started casting my own 158 grainers from Pure Lead at $.50 per pound. I can make 44 bullets from a lb of lead. Using the 6 banger mould I can cast 300 bullets in 20 minutes. I now use two moulds to go faster but once the 20 lb pot is empty I stop for the day. I can either shoot the bullets as cast with Lee Liquid Alox lube or size them. These bullets drop at .358 so I don't size them. My other .358s and my 180 grainers I have to size and lube. Now that's a lot of bullets for the price and it's very reasonable to cast. About $11 per thousand to cast + the electricity for my pot. No charge for labor because it's a hobby. I now use wheel weights which cost very little from many shops to at most $1 per pound from Evil Bay. They produce a harder bullet but even though the price is a little more I'm still getting 44 bullets for every dollar I spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzygä Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I have been shooting over 10 year and only once the prices for bullets have gone down. Maybe it will happend second time now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaG Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 IF everyone here on this forum gets together I'm all for it but how could be accomplished? Would there need to be a rep. from each state of Enoverse? Would the orders recieved be shipped to one central location in each state or to each individual? It would work but the logistics of shipping and payment could be a hassle. DaG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 IF everyone here on this forum gets together I'm all for it but how could be accomplished? Would there need to be a rep. from each state of Enoverse? Would the orders recieved be shipped to one central location in each state or to each individual? It would work but the logistics of shipping and payment could be a hassle. DaG DaG You are making this more complicated than it is. It is NOT about group buying, it is about group boycotting of one brand until their prices come down to an acceptable level. It is about market share, and when a company looses market share, they will lower prices to regain that share. It would take patience and unity, but WE can drive prices down, but you have to be unified Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike4045 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I haven't ordered any bullets. I refuse to pay the current prices on jacketed. I have switched to lead from a nearby maker. I don't shoot open anymore. I am setup to shoot any iron sight division. I have enough Zero's to change out for big matches. All practice and local shoots are now with lead and the last of my moly bullets. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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