lugnut Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I know this is probably a touchy subject but I'd like to get some thoughts on this. I've talked with some Master level shooters that say shooting Open will help make you a better Limited/Production shooter. I've heard Revo guys say shooting a wheel gun helps you become a better shooter because you can't waste any shots. You get the general ideas. Maybe there is no difference, maybe it doesn't matter. Of course there a big differences between divisions and you should shoot what you like I guess. My idea/goal is to get as proficient as I can with iron sight guns and then make a transition to Open some day. Part of the reasoning is that as my close vision is getting worse- I think my days shooting iron sights may get to the point where it gets too frustrating- I hope this is many years from now but who knows. I also realize that decent Open guns and equipment aren't cheap. I don't notice many Open gun shooters going to other divisions... at least locally. What are your thoughts? I've got some 09 plans in the works... but still working on the 5 year plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolduckboy Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 If you are starting out, I Like Limited and Open division for a new person. the reason for the is, you get so much trigger time between reloads. I think it allows a person to concentrate on shooting then reloads and when going through a course of fire. I think my move from production to limited has benefited me with my confidence in my shots and stage breakdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Pick one, and practice. There is nothing wrong with switching, but it won't make you better. What you get out of it, depends on what you put into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasOPM Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I think that you will get a lot of answers- and every one may be correct. The are a lot of paths to enlightenment as it were. The reason that I doubt you see many shooters going from Open to anywhere else might be the appeal of final standings or just the amount of cost involved in setting up an Open gun. My story is that I shot my way to "B" Limited several years ago, with no solid understanding as to why. I took 6 years off and I started back in Production, since I knew that I wasn't really a "B" shooter anymore. I made it to "B" in Production and switched back to Limited so that I can focus on shooting a stage in the fastest way- rather than designing my stage around reloads. I think that Production helped a lot in that I was forced to concentrate on "A's". I had an interesting discussion with another shooter today about a related issue. Production seems to be a good place to start (or restart in my case) since the equipment is pretty reasonable. It also seems like a place where some very good shooters go to in order to give themselves a new challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 One other thing. I'm shooting Production-B and SSP/ESP Expert in IDPA for a point of reference. Only shot these types of guns. No Revolver shooting. Some Single Stack. I've tried some very nice Brazos Limited/Open guns- I can see shooting these some day for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Well, you guys all know my opinion on this subject! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Production. Minor makes you concentrate on shooting A's and 10 round limit makes you plan just about every stage. Higher capacity mags and major scoring leads to too much "spray and pray" which, I'll admit, is a lot of fun but it isn't going to help you improve as a shooter. Switching divisions can do a lot of things that will augment your shooting and thus will make you a better shooter. Changing divisions can help keep your excitement level up (or bring it back from the dead) and it generally forces you to go back to the core fundamentals of your shooting which inevitably helps you improve. But this is for after you have gone down the path for awhile. But, and this is a big BUT, while you are building those fundamentals pick a division and practice for that division. Period. Oh yeah...and do as I say, not as I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Gaines Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 matt burkett says shooting open will help your game more. I will let you know, I have been shooting open for about 1yr now, and fixing to switch back to limited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 matt burkett says shooting open will help your game more. I will let you know, I have been shooting open for about 1yr now, and fixing to switch back to limited I shot Open all of 2008 also and am considering shooting L-10 or Limted for a few months since I have about 7-8k rounds of ammo. We'll see I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Well, you guys all know my opinion on this subject! A Dremel tool, Mike??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 You don't see many Open shooters switching, at least around our way. I think that the high mag capacity has a lot to do with it, they don't want to practice reloads. If your vision is declining, and you still want to shoot irons, a 6" limited gun is a very viable option. Also, a special prescription works for some people. I've been using glasses like that for several years. The best advice is pick one, and shoot the heck out of it. If you want to try a couple different limited guns, I have both a 5" and 6". Weight difference between the 2 is virtually nonexistent. P.M. me if you want to sample them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 You can hide out or white wash your shooting/skills in just about any division. Expose your weakness. Turn them into strengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 It depends on what you want to work on. I started in Limited, before there was a Production Division to start in. After starting with a Glock I switched to a real gun and the 2011. Didn't actually improve my shooting but did look cool. I wanted to work on my speed a bit so I shot Open for a year and fought the gun the whole time. Switched back to Limited for a year. I shot Nationals and realized that while my speed was there, the accuracy wasn't. I was shooting close time wise to the top dogs but throwing a lot of C, D's and even the occasional misses. I switched to Production the next year and haven't looked back. It's definitely improved my game. If I had to lay out what each Division will add to your game: Open: Speed, ability to call shot L-10: Tactics (how to read a stage and plan reloads etc.) Production: Tactics, Accuracy, Knowledge of stage/hit factors Revolver: Tactics, Accuracy Limited: Blends most of the divisions together. I don't think there is anything you really work on in Limited but that might be because I started there and it's my baseline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Open is probably the fast track to classification improvement IMO. It is pure shooting and the shooting is a lot easier, so you can work on shot calling, transitions, movement. These are the things that are the most important skills. They also translate across all the other guns. Shooting a season in Open vastly improved my game. Revolver would be my choice for not necessarily improving the classification but becoming a better shooter, the shooting is a lot more difficult than any other gun. You really need to shoot A's and the gun is hard to shoot, so you will become much more skilled at stroking the trigger without disturbing the sights and this will go a long way with other guns. Stage planning is a nightmare with only 6 rounds, it will teach you to look at a ton of different ways to shoot stages, and that will help with the other guns. The downside is with only 6 rounds, low hit factors and 2 second reloads it takes a lot of pressure off your movement skills and to some extent transitions. This year I hope to get out and shoot some that is not in a match. I haven't been shooting anything other than matches for a couple years, and I just want to blast with a revolver. Shoot groups, shoot a plate rack, shoot dirt clumps on the berm and just shoot for fun. I have always been a revolver guy at heart, when I shoot for fun odds are very high it will be a 22 of some kind and a couple revolvers in the bag, and I think the revolver shooting in my past has done a lot for my overall shooting. For USPSA this year I finally put together a full revolver set, I will at least shoot a classifier match with it and probably a couple local matches. I also have a nice production set up that I will bring out a couple times. I am going to build a single stack and get a classification with it this year too. This year I just want to have fun. I'll probably skip one match a month and play some golf too if my back will take it, I love the game and the distraction will put some balance back in my recreation. Balance should increase the desire level for me across the board. I ran out of "give-a-shit's" in April or so last season and shot the year on cruise control just going through the motions, and that isn't all that much fun. Consequently I didn't improve last year, I actually went backwards and that took the rest of the fun out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I'm gonna say Production. It teaches you to shoot A's and that anything less is unacceptable. It helps in stage breakdown since you're dealing with 10 rounds in your mags. It teaches you how to hit a reload fast without a magwell. It also takes out the mechanical failure part if you shoot a Glock because they just never stop working. So then your mind is clear and your gun confidence is high. Just shoot the gun and keep the gun at or under the spped limit as posted by the sign on the end of the barrel and your GTG. 9mm ammo is also much cheaper and allows for more live fire practice to complement your dry fire routines. I started shooting USPSA in Limited in the middle of 2006. I had fun....I shot really fast and didn't hit half of what I was aiming at but had fun. Then switched to production after shooting Limited for six months and stuck with it. Went from a B shooter in the first part of 07(Jan) to a GM in the last part of 08(Dec) One of the biggest aides in me getting to GM was shooting with other GM's and watching and analyzing what they did. There is a reason why they do what they do so I started paying real close attention. Every weekend I would squad with the GMs and Ms and quickly my game started to improve. I used to watch and pay attention to everything Bill Munier did. He was one of our early local GM's in Production other than Dave Sevigney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Bill used to be a pretty active Open shooter at first if my memory serves correctly. Pick one and practice. Open will reveal problems more quickly and easily. Most of us started and got better in some other division. I put a dot on five minutes after Jerry won Nationals with one cause I knew it was better. Now you got a choice and frankly anybody good in any division is a good shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermoto Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I know this is probably a touchy subject but I'd like to get some thoughts on this. I've talked with some Master level shooters that say shooting Open will help make you a better Limited/Production shooter. I've heard Revo guys say shooting a wheel gun helps you become a better shooter because you can't waste any shots. You get the general ideas. Maybe there is no difference, maybe it doesn't matter.Of course there a big differences between divisions and you should shoot what you like I guess. My idea/goal is to get as proficient as I can with iron sight guns and then make a transition to Open some day. Part of the reasoning is that as my close vision is getting worse- I think my days shooting iron sights may get to the point where it gets too frustrating- I hope this is many years from now but who knows. I also realize that decent Open guns and equipment aren't cheap. I don't notice many Open gun shooters going to other divisions... at least locally. What are your thoughts? I've got some 09 plans in the works... but still working on the 5 year plan. In New England, Open class will help you progress the quickest Its filled with a bunch of shooters that are focused and hungry for the win. Right now it is the class that is making the biggest strides in improvement. It also is the most unforgiving class, you make one mistake, you are out of the race. Get the open gun now. In 5 years, another class might be the one to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffWard Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 If you are starting out, I Like Limited and Open division for a new person. the reason for the is, you get so much trigger time between reloads. I think it allows a person to concentrate on shooting then reloads and when going through a course of fire. I think my move from production to limited has benefited me with my confidence in my shots and stage breakdown. I assumed starting in Production would be the way to go.... You think starting in Limited would be better??? I chose Production, simply because I didn't want to invest $2000 just to even begin in Open. What would you say is the easiest, to hardest divisions to start, and eventuallty compete in, and WHY? JeffWard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I would say SSTK, less rounds and small magwell. One mistake or bad shot and you have a big time penalty. Not to mention you really need some creative stage planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ong45 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I don't notice many Open gun shooters going to other divisions... at least locally. Speaking for myself, open is just so much more fun Getting your hits is universal.You might learn this better shooting production but there's nothing keeping you from shooting A's in any other division. I think it actually takes MORE discipline to shoot A's in open and limited division. No one becomes competitive without learning this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Speaking for myself, open is just so much more fun. Well it looks like you can speak for me too. I like open because my vision is in decline, and even if I had the eyes of an eagle, open is still the speed junkie's division. In theory, open is supposed to allow the shooter to spend less time focusing on the sights (visually and mentally), allowing them to redirect their attention more easily to the non-trigger time tasks. As far as open being easier or open being a fast track to an ego trip or higher classification...no way, because the hit factors are just nutzoid high for everyone. Which division will make you a better shooter? I would say all of them. The goal, regardless of division, is to shoot A's as quickly as possible and to perform the non-shooting tasks as efficiently as possible. At the higher levels of competition there is no room for sloppy shooting regardless of division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I can't imagine only shooting one style or division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Man that's a tough question. I guess, to be true to my roots it'd be Limited 10. Preps you well for Limited because of major scoring and racier(sp) gear. And, Production due to the capacity restrictions and stage break down. I could be goofy but, yeah, Ill stick with L10. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 I don't notice many Open gun shooters going to other divisions... at least locally. Speaking for myself, open is just so much more fun Getting your hits is universal.You might learn this better shooting production but there's nothing keeping you from shooting A's in any other division. I think it actually takes MORE discipline to shoot A's in open and limited division. No one becomes competitive without learning this. I actually was thinking opposite of this. That's why when I've heard folks mention Open will make you a better shooter I was puzzled. I seem to find it much more challenging to call shots and get a good sight picture with iron sight than an Open gun. I have only shot an Open gun a few times but I must say I thought it was easier- at least technically speaking- put the dot over the target, pull the trigger- wait till you get the dot on the target and again and pull the trigger. No worry about the front sight being centered just right in the rear notch while seeing the A zone of the target as as a blur.... hmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermoto Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I actually was thinking opposite of this. That's why when I've heard folks mention Open will make you a better shooter I was puzzled.I seem to find it much more challenging to call shots and get a good sight picture with iron sight than an Open gun. I have only shot an Open gun a few times but I must say I thought it was easier- at least technically speaking- put the dot over the target, pull the trigger- wait till you get the dot on the target and again and pull the trigger. No worry about the front sight being centered just right in the rear notch while seeing the A zone of the target as as a blur.... hmmm. Its because this game has very little to do with actual shooting. Alot people think shooting Open is easy after they take a few shots with an Open gun... "hell you barely have to aim". The thing is an Open gun is easy to shoot, but it magnifies all the other deficiencies. This is were it will make you a better shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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