Can I sponsor myself?

[badchad]

I own my own small business (physical therapy clinic) which isn’t related to shooting. I compete A LOT locally so if I wore my company shirt or hat it would create some local awareness of my company. However if I made ammunition, parts, and travel to larger matches business expenses it would save me a thousands a year in taxes. I mentioned this to my accountant last year and he said the IRS would likely frown on the idea as self funding a hobby or something like that, so I sidelined the idea.

However this morning I had a couple patients bring up the idea and they said tax wise it shouldn’t be a problem and companies do this sort of thing all the time, though I’m not sure that either knew what they were talking about. Anyone know anything about this?

Edited December 24, 2008 by badchad

[uscbigdawg]

Are you saying treat your shooting as a business expense (i.e. marketing/advertising and the ammo, etc. is the cost for that)?

It's a bit of a stretch, but probably do-able. I'd consult a tax attorney.

Rich

[badchad]

Are you saying treat your shooting as a business expense (i.e. marketing/advertising and the ammo, etc. is the cost for that)?

Yes.

[kgunz11]

Are you saying treat your shooting as a business expense (i.e. marketing/advertising and the ammo, etc. is the cost for that)?

Yes.

Do any of your clients shoot?

Do you take any of your clients shooting?

Do you get any business from your shirt advertising it at matches?

If you can answer "yes" to any of those questions you can write off your shooting and traveling to matches expenses.

[AlamoShooter]

yes yes , yes and yes again no comment

I think the military stance of "Don't Ask Don't Tell"

could this thread be purged by the moderators as political ....please

[ChuckS]

I am not a tax guy or lawyer but I would think that you should probably consider some level of sponsor activity to the larger matches such as a logo in the match book, table in the vendors tent or more. That would probably help it look less like you are writing off a vacation. You still may have an issue if you write off the Florida Open when all your clients are in Phoenix. It's my guess that any audit activity would consume any savings that you are getting on your taxes. Not sure it's worth the risk.

Later,

Chuck

[badchad]

Do any of your clients shoot?

Do you take any of your clients shooting?

Do you get any business from your shirt advertising it at matches?

Yes, yes, and not yet.

If you can answer "yes" to any of those questions you can write off your shooting and traveling to matches expenses.

Do you or anyone have a link to an authorative IRS document that says so? I don't want an audit.

[uscbigdawg]

Tax attorneys are cheap for consultation (compared to an audit).

Rich

[chuckbradley]

Disclaimer- Consult with your CPA.

If you advertise your business anywhere it is a legitimate expense. Nothing says it has to always be a smart choice of advertising dollars or that you have to justify the results of advertising dollars. If you can show any results from that advertising then the better but i would expect that if you had a line item of advertising on your financial's that it wouldn't even raise a question. People do this all the time with their vehicles. Advertise on it and write it off as an expense.

If you take a trip where you shoot 2 days with shirts advertising and you have 2 days with no shooting, just fun days then you cant write the whole trip off.

There may be some new rules since I was in school that I dont know about and thats why you need to consult your CPA.

[kgunz11]

Do any of your clients shoot?

Do you take any of your clients shooting?

Do you get any business from your shirt advertising it at matches?

Yes, yes, and not yet.

If you can answer "yes" to any of those questions you can write off your shooting and traveling to matches expenses.

Do you or anyone have a link to an authorative IRS document that says so? I don't want an audit.

Dude, MOST audits are very random. You don't have to do anything fishy to get audited and it doesn't really cost you anything if you keep your paperwork together. It's not even an inconvenience for me as my CPA gets his rocks off just screwing with the guys.

I used an off shore fishing boat as a tax write off. Every cent of every payment and every cent of gas used just because I took clients/employees fishing. It was a business expense I justified to keep my ppl/clients happy and for them to continue to use me for their needs. The IRS can't do squat about it either. As much as they may or may not like it. Some things have limits, like food and beverages, they only allow you to claim 50% of it. So you throw a big Christmas Party then you can write off 50% of the catering and bar tab. Automobiles and travel expenses are a little different.

If you can tie your therapy into the shooting sports and do some work for people associated with the sport, then it is good business for you to be there. It's an expensive form of advertisement while allowing you to do something you enjoy. Some ppl think because you do it is a hobby it is not business related. The IRS can't tax you because your advertisement allows you to do something you enjoy.

Do I have a link to a document? Do you know what kind of clustersuck the IRS is? Do you think they make things easy to find? Call your CPA and ask them. Google also is your friend.

Claiming business expenses: Entertainment expenses

Entertainment expenses

• If you provide entertainment for staff or clients, some of these business entertainment expenses are tax deductible.
  
• Some examples of fully deductible entertainment expenses are food and drink:
  • while travelling on business
    
  • at promotions open to the public
    
  • at certain conferences.
    

  [*]Some other entertainment expenses are only 50% deductible. See our booklet Entertainment expenses (IR268) for more information.

  [*]To support your claims for business entertainment expenses you should keep invoices and receipts.

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=123026,00.html

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc512.html

[Seth]

There's a LOT to this. More than I can type, but the short answer is a qualified yes. You will need to discuss it with a tax expert to get a grip as to how you can do it, but its possible.

Moreover, you're able to depreciate the cost of the equipment, etc...

I had a vehicle that I used for business advertising and all of the modifications to the vehicle and the depreciation of the vehicle over time was properly and legally deducted from my taxes. Its not even a stretch, especially, like in my case, if you're actually doing business because of your attendance.

[High Lord Gomer]

I asked my tax guy about putting my company name on my motorcycles, jerseys, enclosed trailer, etc so that I could write off some of my expenses as advertising.

He told me that my company could only claim as much for advertising with me as some other company would be willing to pay me to wear their name and advertise for them.

For me, that translated to zero dollars. I even had an offer from the local Honda shop to give me a free Kawasaki as long as I promised NOT to ride a Honda at the local races.

[racerba]

I own my own small business (physical therapy clinic)

Shooting can be very therapudic. It can be a form of PT.

There's also something about a hobby in the tax laws. It might be worth your while to consult with your CPA.

[badchad]

Just to clarify I did talk with my CPA about it last year, and he said I could get away with deducting the price of my t-shirts and/or hats but that was about it. But I have been told other tax accountants would answer differently. I don’t want to change CPAs, but if there is a way to do it, I would really like to tell him about it. If it’s a grey area and more of a “don’t ask don’t tell thing” and I get audited that might not be so bad if they just said I owed some back taxes. However if it is something that is considered tax fraud then for sure I would not want to chance it.

[Neomet]

Chad,

I am sad to say that I am almost certain that you can not sponsor yourself this way. I am very pleased however to be able to offer you the exciting opportunity of sponsoring a local shooter who is in that large group of older Open shooters who need PT just to get our asses out of bed in the morning. You will be reaching a potentially large client base, old out of shape guys trying to run and move like young, virile Limited shooters. These shooter will be pulling hamstrings sprinting to the next shooting box, straining backs picking up brass (well, maybe not those shooting Major 9) and dislocating thumbs from trying to stuff 31 rounds into a mag.

We can work out the financial arrangement at this weekend's match.

In all seriousness I have no idea if you can do this or not.

Edited December 24, 2008 by Neomet

[CSEMARTIN]

I had the same idea:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...&hl=sponsor

I kind of put this on the back burner, but soon I'll be doing my taxes.....

[Joe4d]

I'm not a genius but I have stayed at the Holiday in express,

Let me para phrase a couple statements you made.

My accountant,(the guy you pay to keep you straight and who probably is pretty educated and experienced on just this type of tax law) said dont do it.

Smuckatelly Bob with no aparent creditials, office walk in client no dog in the fight says, "Sure go ahead"

[kgunz11]

Just to clarify I did talk with my CPA about it last year, and he said I could get away with deducting the price of my t-shirts and/or hats but that was about it. But I have been told other tax accountants would answer differently. I don't want to change CPAs, but if there is a way to do it, I would really like to tell him about it. If it's a grey area and more of a "don't ask don't tell thing" and I get audited that might not be so bad if they just said I owed some back taxes. However if it is something that is considered tax fraud then for sure I would not want to chance it.

Tax fraud is lying about it deliberately, intentional deception. You're not lying, you really are spending the money on the things you claim and you have receipts. Fraud would be saying you went to a match you never attended and trying to claim it. All they can do is hit you for the back taxes and a penalty that is a joke. Half of a half of a percent per month per anum.

[kgunz11]

I'm not a genius but I have stayed at the Holiday in express,

My accountant,(the guy you pay to keep you straight and who probably is pretty educated and experienced on just this type of tax law) said dont do it.

Let me add to that. Your accountant, the guy you pay to know these things, might be too lazy to look into it, nor may he have any experience in such things. You might want to consult someone else and get a second opinion.

Joe4d, doctors go to school for a really long time, much longer than any CPA (my idiot cousin decided he needed a PhD in accounting so he is both a Dr. AND an accountant, as well as an exception to the rule). Before you let a doctor cut your nuts out due to a sinus infection, I suggest you consult another doctor for a second opinion. Sometimes professionals don't know everything.

[badchad]

Let me para phrase a couple statements you made.

My accountant,(the guy you pay to keep you straight and who probably is pretty educated and experienced on just this type of tax law) said dont do it.

Smuckatelly Bob with no aparent creditials, office walk in client no dog in the fight says, "Sure go ahead"

That's about it. But I really want Smuckatelly Bob to be right.

[boz1911]

Many years ago, when I was drag racing, the IRS called me in to have a chat. Turns out they considered what I was doing a hobby, not a business. Luckily the payment required was for only that current tax return

[badchad]

I had the same idea:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...&hl=sponsor

I kind of put this on the back burner, but soon I'll be doing my taxes.....

Hmm... and I did a search too, using title terms "sponsor" and "sponsors" but not "sponsorship." Please let me know if you come across anything definative. I'll do likewise.

[wooddog]

I would have to say that if it was possible it would be being done by all of us!

[maineshootah]

As my accountant told me...

There is a fine line between tax avoidance and tax evasion.

:-)

Merry Christmas all!

[SharonAnne9x23]

when you 'sponsor' yourself you are actually being paid to advertise the company that 'sponsors' you. You are nothing more than a mobile bill board with advertising on it. You , the individual, are charging the 'business' for advertising. Forget sponsorship, it is advertising.

Edited December 24, 2008 by SharonAnne9x23