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2008 Nationals - side game


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I should not have been surprised but production shooters ended up with FAR less penalties than the other divisions, open was next but with less of a margin over the rest than i assumed.

What? :lol:

My experience in these types of bets tells me the red dot is an advantage (especially in a match with tough shots). But, the Production shooter (minor) has a mental advantage..they gotta shoot Alphas. That makes their misses into Charlies. Major shooters hose a bit more, because 2-Charlie on a target doesn't hurt much. Misses for them are Deltas.

Just a mental note for Open shooters. I watched EG's dvd from the Europe match. He was making up Delta hits.

Watch out for the Revolver shooters. :ph34r:

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Reminds me of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia episode...

Charlie: Alright. So what's the vig?

Frank: What?

Charlie: Yeah, man. What's the vig on this action?

Frank: Do you even know what VIG means?

:cheers:

:roflol:

This game sounds fun..., I'd be in LPR fosho, if someone took it up

and of couse i'd need money to play too... :mellow:

hahah

wait.... <_<

:P

-LK

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Dave:

I like the concept of you pay out of pocket for your mistakes in the concept of a small group but if it is going to be match wide, would we not have more participation and hence a larger purse if we just let everyone pay $10 to enter and maybe award first second third with 50%, 30% and 20% respectfully and have ties broken by who finished with the highest hit factor in their respective division? I am in either way but I can imagine if you get 100 entries you are going to regret doing the math under the individual accounting plan.

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OK I am in even if you D shooters only want it to be 0.50 $ :mellow:

But what about no penalty mikes ? take stage 19 timed event one shooter may get all 8 shots off and cach a D

the next guy only gets off 6 or 7 but no D so he has a lower score and does not add the $1 for the D

not quite rite . or on a fast drop turner

I think no penalty mikes should be included

JF

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I'm in :)

It doesn't make much difference to me what we charge for D hits, but the point about no penatly mikes on Stage 19 is a really good one. I've run that one a few times now and I can tell you that lots of folks are going to drop shots on it and that's worse than slinging a couple of Ds on it. R,

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OK, SmittyFL is in for L10 and I'm in for Open...

I'm not shooting the LPR Nats, but I'll be there filming and trying to do the LIVE video streaming, if possible. I'd be happy to help keep track/score/whatever that needs to be done for LPR. I'm gonna ante up for SmittyFL for Limited too... he'll be busy trying to win the match, so I'll carry his financial burden for this... ;)

I'll read up on what needs to be done... but maybe someone can tell me what I need to do for them for LPR...?

this message approved by SmittyFL

Edited to add:

It doesn't make much difference to me what we charge for D hits, but the point about no penatly mikes on Stage 19 is a really good one. I've run that one a few times now and I can tell you that lots of folks are going to drop shots on it and that's worse than slinging a couple of Ds on it. R,

I don't really care either way... but 2 Alphas on 2 targets is better than 4 Deltas on 4 targets... I don't really think NPMs should count.

Edited by Sharyn
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To clear up a couple of things...

There's no playing for a particular division - everyone is in this together! (see past years...). You LPR shooters - someone needs to volunteer to run the match for you (I'm not sure I've seen that happen, yet?)

Charles, re: $10/head, etc... Yeah, I definitely don't want to deal with 100 participants :D The attraction to this format is that it rewards good performances, with accumulating pain for poor ones - and that sort of reinforcement is a big theme here on the forum.

Stage 19.... If NPMs count as Ms in the side game, we're going to lose participation from those who will be pitching in say $8-10 right off the bat due to NPMs that they're anticipating on stages with disappearing targets. On the flip side, one would think getting a D on a disappearing target should be considered better than having an NPM, correct? I'd like to keep the whole match in play, but maybe the only way around this is to "throw out" stage 19, and then make NPMs count as misses for the rest of the match? I count 8 other disappearing targets - all of which are under the control of the shooter to put in motion...

My opinion would be to just leave the rule as it is, and accept it as quirk of the game, but... I'll offer the option to you guys :D

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Dave:

... I am in either way but I can imagine if you get 100 entries you are going to regret doing the math under the individual accounting plan.

Charles:

Thanks for letting me have a bit of fun with you.

The bold, will rep the rewards. :cheers: I know I'm not afraid of a little risk, and what's a few dollars wagered. Last year this would have cost me seven bucks, plus I like the odds are in my control. All of us could do better here than at the track.

Hope to meet you at the match, I'm on squad 19 if you want to stop by and say hi.

Dave

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OK...if no one else is going to roger up for LPR then I'll take it! But if I am going to run this I will open up a constructive rules debate until Saturday morning. We will need the names of everyone that wants to participate by Saturday night (exact cutoff time TBD). Below are a few of the rules that need to be determined:

-cost of "D" hits

-stage 19 in or out

-bail out option

If you guys can think of anything else let me know...let's get this nugged out and start the trash talk.

I will be the lone Air Force Team member, Squad 13 shooting Production.

Edwin

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-stage 19 in or out

After some consideration, it doesn't seem fair to count stage 19.

We may want to think about NPMs as well. It may be advantagous to let some turners go or something, and it wouldn't make sense to penalize people for that.

Oh, and thanks for stepping up to run this!

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:P

the match has 19 stages, not 18 ...Whar is the Little smiley face that's crying? :P

I bet the SOB Goddess can come up with one

And what about the SS guys that ..Talk the Talk and now want the NPM not to be part of the deal :sight:

I bet CatFish will vote to leave them in ;)

SOB #1

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:P

the match has 19 stages, not 18

+ 1 on that.

BUT...

Counting the NPM's puts a lot more work on Dave because they don't show up in the online scoring. The only place that the NPM shows up is on the actual score sheet. Dave can look at the standings and quickly determine the Delta's, NS and Mikes to get the totals.

This is the key to the online score sheet:

Key to headings

Stage number suffix: P, R, S = Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun

Heading Meaning

A, B, C, D Hit count

M Miss

NS No Shoot

P Procedural

DP Double point value poppers

DM Misses on double point value poppers

LS Late shot (Fixed time only)

XS Extra shot (Virginia Count/Fixed Time only)

XH Extra hit (Virginia Count/Fixed Time only)

AP Additional penalty

Stg Pts Stage Points

Place Place of finish on stage

I vote for .50 cent Deltas and to keep the old system of NOT counting NPM's. That keeps all the targets in play.

David C

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Well, I mean, they have to, even if its just by the absence of a hit? Would you have to count up the hits on a stage w/ disappearing targets, and see that one is missing, and assuming its a disappearing target or something? Probably a good question for Rob...

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