Flexmoney Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 I should not have been surprised but production shooters ended up with FAR less penalties than the other divisions, open was next but with less of a margin over the rest than i assumed. What? My experience in these types of bets tells me the red dot is an advantage (especially in a match with tough shots). But, the Production shooter (minor) has a mental advantage..they gotta shoot Alphas. That makes their misses into Charlies. Major shooters hose a bit more, because 2-Charlie on a target doesn't hurt much. Misses for them are Deltas. Just a mental note for Open shooters. I watched EG's dvd from the Europe match. He was making up Delta hits. Watch out for the Revolver shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little_kahuna Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Reminds me of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia episode...Charlie: Alright. So what's the vig? Frank: What? Charlie: Yeah, man. What's the vig on this action? Frank: Do you even know what VIG means? This game sounds fun..., I'd be in LPR fosho, if someone took it up and of couse i'd need money to play too... hahah wait.... -LK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 Dave: I like the concept of you pay out of pocket for your mistakes in the concept of a small group but if it is going to be match wide, would we not have more participation and hence a larger purse if we just let everyone pay $10 to enter and maybe award first second third with 50%, 30% and 20% respectfully and have ties broken by who finished with the highest hit factor in their respective division? I am in either way but I can imagine if you get 100 entries you are going to regret doing the math under the individual accounting plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 OK I am in even if you D shooters only want it to be 0.50 $ But what about no penalty mikes ? take stage 19 timed event one shooter may get all 8 shots off and cach a D the next guy only gets off 6 or 7 but no D so he has a lower score and does not add the $1 for the D not quite rite . or on a fast drop turner I think no penalty mikes should be included JF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwana Six-Gun Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 If you can get someone to play for Revolver and keep track of everything, I'm in. PAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 I'm in It doesn't make much difference to me what we charge for D hits, but the point about no penatly mikes on Stage 19 is a really good one. I've run that one a few times now and I can tell you that lots of folks are going to drop shots on it and that's worse than slinging a couple of Ds on it. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 IIRC we also had a 'bail-out' option at one time-- you could pay your total up-til-then and get out, but no re-entering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 (edited) Hell... for that kind of money I'd walk the stages and take as much time as I need and turn in a card with all As Not really, but.... Edited September 4, 2008 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharyn Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 (edited) OK, SmittyFL is in for L10 and I'm in for Open... I'm not shooting the LPR Nats, but I'll be there filming and trying to do the LIVE video streaming, if possible. I'd be happy to help keep track/score/whatever that needs to be done for LPR. I'm gonna ante up for SmittyFL for Limited too... he'll be busy trying to win the match, so I'll carry his financial burden for this... I'll read up on what needs to be done... but maybe someone can tell me what I need to do for them for LPR...? this message approved by SmittyFL Edited to add: It doesn't make much difference to me what we charge for D hits, but the point about no penatly mikes on Stage 19 is a really good one. I've run that one a few times now and I can tell you that lots of folks are going to drop shots on it and that's worse than slinging a couple of Ds on it. R, I don't really care either way... but 2 Alphas on 2 targets is better than 4 Deltas on 4 targets... I don't really think NPMs should count. Edited September 4, 2008 by Sharyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 i remember when ong45 proposed this...sounded quite fun. but u know, we really ought to try this at the MG nationals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingchange Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 Count me in for LPR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjbush12 Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 In for open!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted September 4, 2008 Author Share Posted September 4, 2008 To clear up a couple of things... There's no playing for a particular division - everyone is in this together! (see past years...). You LPR shooters - someone needs to volunteer to run the match for you (I'm not sure I've seen that happen, yet?) Charles, re: $10/head, etc... Yeah, I definitely don't want to deal with 100 participants The attraction to this format is that it rewards good performances, with accumulating pain for poor ones - and that sort of reinforcement is a big theme here on the forum. Stage 19.... If NPMs count as Ms in the side game, we're going to lose participation from those who will be pitching in say $8-10 right off the bat due to NPMs that they're anticipating on stages with disappearing targets. On the flip side, one would think getting a D on a disappearing target should be considered better than having an NPM, correct? I'd like to keep the whole match in play, but maybe the only way around this is to "throw out" stage 19, and then make NPMs count as misses for the rest of the match? I count 8 other disappearing targets - all of which are under the control of the shooter to put in motion... My opinion would be to just leave the rule as it is, and accept it as quirk of the game, but... I'll offer the option to you guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecutts Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 Dave:... I am in either way but I can imagine if you get 100 entries you are going to regret doing the math under the individual accounting plan. Charles: Thanks for letting me have a bit of fun with you. The bold, will rep the rewards. I know I'm not afraid of a little risk, and what's a few dollars wagered. Last year this would have cost me seven bucks, plus I like the odds are in my control. All of us could do better here than at the track. Hope to meet you at the match, I'm on squad 19 if you want to stop by and say hi. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted September 4, 2008 Author Share Posted September 4, 2008 I guess I should point out, too - worst case has never been more than $20-25, and that constitutes a terrible match And that was with $1/D, too, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer-lock Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 Just a mental note for Open shooters. I watched EG's dvd from the Europe match. He was making up Delta hits. When I make up Deltas the RO usually lets me choose which one I want to count. David C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unleashed Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 OK...if no one else is going to roger up for LPR then I'll take it! But if I am going to run this I will open up a constructive rules debate until Saturday morning. We will need the names of everyone that wants to participate by Saturday night (exact cutoff time TBD). Below are a few of the rules that need to be determined: -cost of "D" hits -stage 19 in or out -bail out option If you guys can think of anything else let me know...let's get this nugged out and start the trash talk. I will be the lone Air Force Team member, Squad 13 shooting Production. Edwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Stoeger Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 -stage 19 in or out After some consideration, it doesn't seem fair to count stage 19. We may want to think about NPMs as well. It may be advantagous to let some turners go or something, and it wouldn't make sense to penalize people for that. Oh, and thanks for stepping up to run this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unleashed Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 I agree on no-penalty mikes....you could have a malfunction just prior to exposure and some of those targets can be too fast for newer shooters. I also agree that stage 19 should be out completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 the match has 19 stages, not 18 ...Whar is the Little smiley face that's crying? I bet the SOB Goddess can come up with one And what about the SS guys that ..Talk the Talk and now want the NPM not to be part of the deal I bet CatFish will vote to leave them in SOB #1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer-lock Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 the match has 19 stages, not 18 + 1 on that. BUT... Counting the NPM's puts a lot more work on Dave because they don't show up in the online scoring. The only place that the NPM shows up is on the actual score sheet. Dave can look at the standings and quickly determine the Delta's, NS and Mikes to get the totals. This is the key to the online score sheet: Key to headings Stage number suffix: P, R, S = Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Heading Meaning A, B, C, D Hit count M Miss NS No Shoot P Procedural DP Double point value poppers DM Misses on double point value poppers LS Late shot (Fixed time only) XS Extra shot (Virginia Count/Fixed Time only) XH Extra hit (Virginia Count/Fixed Time only) AP Additional penalty Stg Pts Stage Points Place Place of finish on stage I vote for .50 cent Deltas and to keep the old system of NOT counting NPM's. That keeps all the targets in play. David C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted September 4, 2008 Author Share Posted September 4, 2008 How do NPMs show up on the online scoring stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer-lock Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 How do NPMs show up on the online scoring stuff? They don't. That was my point. David C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted September 4, 2008 Author Share Posted September 4, 2008 Well, I mean, they have to, even if its just by the absence of a hit? Would you have to count up the hits on a stage w/ disappearing targets, and see that one is missing, and assuming its a disappearing target or something? Probably a good question for Rob... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 Area 3 Stage 10 had 3 Disappearing Targets and the results show some with 32 hits, and some with less. Never even noticed that 'til now. They used the Palm Pilot scoring also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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