CCF Frames Anyone Really Happy?

[FJR]

Moderator note:

I originally edited this thread to add a poll to it...as we seemed to get a lot of "second hand" opinions on the CCF frame from those that didn't have one.

Since that time, the thread has run long. Many pages into the thread, and after closer scrutiny, I've been contacted by a number of members that wish to edit what they originally posted. We really don't do that here. If you post something, you need to stand by it. Accountability.

If you now see things in a different light...good on you. And, thanks for being big enough to step up and say so. But, we won't be going back and editing past content. (we don't really have the time and means to do that type of thing)

So, those reading this thread for info...be sure to read it to the end and get a complete picture.

- Admin.

--------------------------------------

I kept tabs on most of the posts here about CCF Raceframes for the last year +. When I first heard of them from the 2007 SHOT, I had really high hopes for them just to tinker around with, and to eventually make a slick competition gun. Then, all sorts of problems started cropping up. At the 2008 SHOT I actually got to see and hold them and I was really hoping that all the bugs had been worked out. I liked the idea of a stainelss (heavy) G17. As soon as I heard that shock buffs were needed to help prevent damage, I was really turned off and the chances of having a defensive gun made with a CCF frame plumeted. Why would I want to make a gun that was more like a 1911?

Has anyone been able to have their CCF frame modified to the point where it is as reliable as a regular Glock polymer frame? If so, who does the best work? Were shock buffs still needed to make it run? Was a different guide rod needed? It seems the customer base has been generally unhappy with the product and I am not going to touch one until I see/hear some consistent reports of good results. If anyone with first hand experience could chime in, I would appreciate any feedback.

Thanks in advance,

FJR

[chirpy]

I have no experience with the CCF but I have heard they might not be around long $$$ worries and also there might be an alternative towards the end of the year. Heard both from a Glock gunsmith at a gun show so I don't know if they are true or not. I was hoping for good reports and etc...I would like to have a 19 size built.

FWIW

Richard

[mjbine]

I would like to hear something about CCF also.

[cmzneb]

One guy at our range has one. He has had nothing but problems with it, and it locked up or something on him the other day just before the Area 3 match.

[abn-rgr]

I have 3 friends that have them as well as myself. I finally put it back in the gunsafe as did the others because they arent reliable. If they ever work the bugs out, it will be a great product.

[mjbine]

I have 3 friends that have them as well as myself. I finally put it back in the gunsafe as did the others because they arent reliable. If they ever work the bugs out, it will be a great product.

That sucks!

[cdrissel]

Not happy with mine (stainless G17). I bought it to build an Open Glock. It might not be just the CCF frame that gave me problems. Tricking out a perfectly functioning Glock is an exercise in futility. I would not buy another one.

[Flexmoney]

I added a poll to the thread. - admin

[STI2011]

I had mine for a few months (SS 9mm with a G34 upper) put together by a reputable gunsmith and still had FTE issues that kept reoccuring. When I first got the thing, I would get an FTE once per mag for the first 2 or three mags of the day and then the gun would be fine. Replaced the extractor spring, replaced the SLB with a larger one and gun ran fine for a few range visits then started happening again with the first round fired per stage at a match and then ran fine. I no longer have the CCF frame and am shooting the G34 until my new STI Limited gun is ready. I think the reported issues that I have heard about the CCF are:

1. In .40 cal, the buffers get chewed up way too easily and fall apart causing the gun to stop functioning not to mention the $8 buffer replacement cost (every few hundred rounds in some cases I've heard)

2. In 9mm, FTEs.

There may be other issues but, these are the main ones I've heard.

[JKSNIPER]

Has anyone been able to have their CCF frame modified to the point where it is as reliable as a regular Glock polymer frame?

Thanks in advance,

FJR

FJR,

Not sure the Glock is all that reliable.

I've seen frames with cracks in them in both 9mm and .40

Seen rails break off in both 9mm and .40.

Not too keen on them myself and only reason I use it is because the department says we have to.

JK

[John2A]

I am guessing that it is a one in a million but one of the guys I shoot with has a 17 open with the CCF frame and it runs just fine. He has not had to many issues once it was tuned and slicked up he has not had a hick-up in 1200 rounds.

I am not sure who he got to tune it but could find out if there is interest.

[Jman]

FJR,

Not sure the Glock is all that reliable.

I've seen frames with cracks in them in both 9mm and .40

Seen rails break off in both 9mm and .40.

Not too keen on them myself and only reason I use it is because the department says we have to.

JK

JK,

It takes one hell of a man to %*!@ one up!

Jim

Edited August 8, 2008 by JimmyM

[JKSNIPER]

Dude,

I WISH I could say I'm that much man.

E-mail me for particulars but in short a local P.D. here in the northeast was looking for a new caliber and pistol and went witht he Glock .40s

They had multiple frame failures.

A bad thing when you're at the range...a REALLY bad thing when you're on the street.

Glock said it was an anomaly....then it was limited to just the weapons that broke.....then it was limited to certain serial # weapons....then it was we'll replace al the frames in a certain letter and # combination....then it was we'll replace ALL your frames because theres a defect.

NOT BASHING Glock here....just reporting the facts.

IMHO buy a STEEL weapon. You can drop it or smash a mutt across the chops with it and not wonder if its going to go "bang" when you pull the trigger.

Edited August 8, 2008 by JKSNIPER

[rhett45acp]

Glock Reliability? Solid.

I have shot thousands of rounds through many a Glock and no Glock induced problems. I own at least a dozen.

In Fact, I had one of the E series that was listed for recall. (Yes JKSNIPWE, it was a serial number series) Being the stubborn person I am, I never sent the frame back. I was cleaning the gun (I do that every now and then) one day and noticed the left rear rail was missing. I found the rail piece in the parts washer. I know I had shot at least two local matches with that gun since the last cleaning. The G17 ran fine. I sent the gun back to Glock and they replaced the frame promptly. Great Customer Service.

That my friend is reliable!

So I have to ask, with the CCF frame, not knocking innovation, why would you want to mess with what a Glock really is? It's a polymer based gun. Given physics are what they are, the Glock frame is designed for a certain amount of "flexibility". With a ridged frame, this is not the case. Unless you redesign the entire pistol, things are not going to be the same.

I have also seen on BE comments that Browning HP where fragile. Nonsense, I have one that has of 100K rounds through it. I got my C card with that gun. Still running. But, If you shoot Open with a reamed out BHP, like they did in the 80's, it might just break.

The CCF frame issue is very simple, you take something that was designed to be A and make it B, the results will be different. If not, we would not be around! Basic laws of physics.

[Hany]

My brother who is a recreational, but not competative shooter, has long disliked Glocks. He had always felt that the balance point was "off" for him and disliked shooting any of mine. A year ago I put together a stainless CCF frame with a 35 slide and barrel, it was easy and came together with no problems other than the trigger would not reset, I called and they suggested trying a different connector, and that solved it. I ran approx 300 rounds through it, I found that it shot very well, but I disliked carrying it due to the weight. When my brother shot it, he fell in love with it, and now shoots it as well as he can run a 1911. I think he has another 300 or so through it, so its too early to tell regarding durability, but reliability has been good so far.

For him its a range gun, and he loves it, for me all the extra weight did not make a difference other than making my pants sag...So we will see in the years to come how it holds up.

[Harmon]

i dont know what causes the glock original frame rails to fail, but when they do, they give you a new frame.

Harmon

[Jager1147]

Hey all,

I'm manufacturing the CCF Guide rods w/integral buffer, and the design is nailed down, ordered and are finally in production. The guide rods are polymer, with a buffer on the guide rod. CCF will still recommend using the frame buffer for 40 cal., but I don't think they're neccessary for the 9mm. The short life of the frame buffer will no longer be an issue. Expect to see them available from CCF in two weeks.

I hope that people are still willing to build on these frames, I think they're a great idea providing they run. I'll be building an open gun with their barrel and slide, my comp and I'll get it to run. I'll approach it more like a custom build rather than drop in parts, it's not a Glock anymore. I'll Keep you posted, it will be a while I'm out for the season (shoulder surg.).

jager

[abn-rgr]

Hey all,

I'm manufacturing the CCF Guide rods w/integral buffer, and the design is nailed down, ordered and are finally in production. The guide rods are polymer, with a buffer on the guide rod. CCF will still recommend using the frame buffer for 40 cal., but I don't think they're neccessary for the 9mm. The short life of the frame buffer will no longer be an issue. Expect to see them available from CCF in two weeks.

I hope that people are still willing to build on these frames, I think they're a great idea providing they run. I'll be building an open gun with their barrel and slide, my comp and I'll get it to run. I'll approach it more like a custom build rather than drop in parts, it's not a Glock anymore. I'll Keep you posted, it will be a while I'm out for the season (shoulder surg.).

jager

I think more people would respond better to the CCF frame if the owners would try and cater more to the competition crowd. I have had several shooting buddies who had to send their frame back 4 or 5 times. This was on a stock G34 upper with mouse fart loads. They keep saying you have to use stock glock parts. The problem with using stock glock parts is, its nothing more than a stock glock pistol. Nothing wrong with this, becasue they are reliable as hell. People are buying these because they love glocks reliability, but want to build a race gun and it just isnt working. Hopefully they will eventually fix all the problems. I had one of the first frames (under 200) and it hasnt worked worth a dam. This is even after a reputable gunsmith hand fit everything together. Now it is just another $1000 mistake sitting in the gun safe.

[desertdog]

CCF fun continued! I have a few posts in regards to mine, G34 upper, dawson ICE magwell, only gun I use in comp L and L10 2500+ rounds per month. In regards the 'why' is important IMHO, do you like glocks? If so why do you want the CCF? If you're a glock hater not really an option. I purchased it initially to gain the frame weight due to bad hands, it is much heavier than stock frame. Does it need tweaking? Of course, see the other posts in regards to FTE's, can you put a much better trigger on them? Oh yeah! Are magwells fun to put on and look good? yes. Frame is picky on OAL and Power Factor in 9mm, use max 1.120 OAL and run 145+ PF. Have gone through 3 NLCI extractors this year! bottom half cracks in half Had Robar look at it also and they couldn't find any issue Glocks are very reliable and my buddy shoots his 10mm Glock over 3000 rounds a month at +230 PF ! No issues... Mine shoots great until the extractor breaks always at Rio to... ? Solid heavy gun that runs good once you fix the FTE's, have used same shock buff for over 15000 rounds. It does cost $ though for internal parts, trigger work, magwell fun, etc. so it's not cheap but if you get one expect this expense and tweaking. Would I do this over again, doubt it but the frame can tame hot .40's much better than glock frame if I drop a 22\35 slide on it.

[skeeter]

i got mine this spring. at first i tried it in my 24 with a lonewolf 9mm conversion barrel. this barrel worke good in the glock frame, but when i put it on the CCF it was crap. after fighting with it for a couple of months ( maybe 1200 rounds) i put it up. i had FTE every 50 to 100 rounds, sometimes 5 in 50 then it would be good for a couple of hundred. went back to the .40 and so far (300 rounds) it's been perfect.

i like this frame the trigger is better than ever, and accuracy seems better. and it's very soft shooting.

[desertdog]

Ok practicing last night and trigger pin sheared in half and locking block broke. Same Pin was worn very badly 3 months ago and replaced, they have no clue why this is happening, so now gun is in hospital waiting on locking block fun w\CCF, we shall see if they warranty it...

[BR]

desertdog-

fyi, I have a buddy whose locking block cracked and he returned it to CCF in February. Over six months later and they still say they "are working on it." He is now very concerned and disappointed and angry, and is considering having his attorney [me] write CCF demanding that they, at a minimum, return the gun to him even if they do not fix it. I am anticipating some fun times with CCF in the near future! Cheers.

-br

Edited August 26, 2008 by joker22

[desertdog]

That's crazy! Robar has it and is taking it to CCF gunsmith here in Phoenix today, I'm hoping for a hell of a lot faster turn around via Robar then your buddy got! Call them and tell them you're his attorney and want to know why it hasn't been fixed and sent back to him with an apology! That sucks... I can't even use my G34 upper as they wanted that to...

[larry weeks]

Joe at realguns.com did a build up on a stock Glock then added the CCF frame and experienced the problems people mention. He kept tinkering until he got it figured out. That was back in 07 so you might have to search the archives, I think he called it Glockenstein.

[matt2ace]

Many of my shooting friends called this one FrankenGlock. I shot over 10K rounds of 40 major through it before the slide cracked through the recoil rod hole. The CCF frame had a broken locking block attributed to a poorly fit barrel. I believe that most of the problems did result from my inexperience working with all-metal Glocks. The gun operated perfectly in this configuration until it broke after 2+ years of use (this was a very early CCF SS frame). After a lot of experience with this gun, I feel lucky it lasted as long as it did.

IMHO once you are working with an all-metal gun, fitting becomes a very important element of the gun build. Glock shooters are very acustom to the ease of fitting for most internal parts, barrels, comps, etc. but with the plastic frame flexing and absorbing/transferring recoil shock in a completely different manner than an all-metal Glock. We just cannot assume that all of the current parts on the market will fit and work with a CCF frame without some profressional fitting. I am not sure if the CCF frame will ever catch on, but in my experience when a CCF gun runs, it's fast, soft, and very fun to shoot.

Edited August 28, 2008 by matt2ace