CCF Frames Anyone Really Happy?

[T Thomas]

Robar just completed building my Alloy Extreme in .40. For those that don't know, Alloy Extreme is Robar's proprietary branding of a CCF Raceframe unit. It includes a G-22 size CCF Slide, CCF Barrel and Stainless-Steel CCF frame. I have noted that most of the problematic guns discussed here were built with parts from various manufacturers. However, since this particular gun is built from the ground up with all CCF major components, I think it may just represent as close to an optimal control testbed as can be found. That said, prior to picking it up, the folks at Robar advised me that although the gun can be fired now with no restrictions, I may see fairly rapid wear of the shock-buffer. They also advised me that a new recoil system will be forthcoming in a few days, and that it will be sent to me at their expense. I understand that this "recoil system" consists of an improved guide-rod and recoil spring, so my hope is that this new "system" will turn out to be the silver-bullet for the FTE problems that seem to be prevelent within this and other forums. My initial shooting experience with the gun last night (yes I was dumb enough to take it out to Cactus Match for it's first firing) revealed FTE's on the first through roughly 12th rounds, with a mag-swap somewhere in-between just to eliminate the initial mag as a contributing culpret. Incidentially, I was using only 165 grain, White Box ammo and will continue do do so until I can report acceptable reliability. There was a little improvement on the next stage though as I got two to three rounds between FTE's. Needless to say, I was able to contain my enthusiasm at that point. The 3rd and 4th stages however gave me no FTE's in about 50 consecutive rounds fired, so things are going in the right direction. Later disassembly revealed zero wear on the shock-buffer. At this point, my initial overall assessment is that the gun handles very nicely, so my hope is that the gun may just need a few hundred more rounds put through it to fully break it in. And no my friends, none of my other standard Glocks (G-17, G-19, G-23, G-36 and G21SF) ever required that! But then, they weren't all-steel. Stay tuned... more later.

[badchad]

My initial shooting experience with the gun last night (yes I was dumb enough to take it out to Cactus Match for it's first firing) revealed FTE's on the first through roughly 12th rounds, with a mag-swap somewhere in-between just to eliminate the initial mag as a contributing culpret.

It was funny watching that happen right after I said "those things don't work." Anyway welcome to the forum.

[Jager1147]

The new recoil rod / buffer assemblies were shipped to CCF Wednesday, so Robbie should be getting yours to you shortly.

Keep us posted with your full CCF gun, I'm anxious to see the results posted.

Thanks, jager

[colbyjack]

so what can one do to fix the FTE on the 9mm CCF frames, switched to the old style ejector cause they said so but it has problems with both ejectors.... ? -chris

[desertdog]

Locking block issue- CCF replaced my frame very quickly, they kept bad one so I lost my ICE magwell but Robar swapped my guts into new frame and it is ready to go with new guide rod and buffer. Issue may have been caused by 150+ PF loads, 6" barrel and to light of a recoil spring. They advised 18lb or better springs, use a 20lb one now. Frame ran for lots of rounds before this, had over 30,000 through it easy. Once it's tuned they run good, much heavier, soft recoil with these frames. Quick turn around time was great as Robar and CCF worked it out between them....

[VegasOPM]

I have to say that I was interested in the CCF frames. I just can't see where the break even is. I can buy G17's and G22's for between $400 and $450 all day long here in Vegas. I can't see the need to pay $400+ for a frame when I can buy another gun for the same money. As for durability, I can't fault Glocks. I've owned almost 20 of them and I shoot a lot (2000+ rds per month). None of mine have broken, but I know that it isn't unheard of. Of course Glock has made it right for the folks that have broken ones. My highest round count G17 is a 1st gen (single frame pin) with somewhere north of 100,000 rounds and nothing has broken or worn out except the extractor, springs and the frame pin. The recoil, even on 180PF .40 loads, isn't really that bad for me- so the added weight doesn't excite me.

[chirpy]

Wait until December...there is a stainless replacement frame which can be made to feel more like a 1911. Supposedly overcomes the faults of the CCF.

Richard

[skeeter]

well i most say that with 24 slide on it this gun really works well. no problems at all with 1500 rounds thru it.

[skeeter]

I have to say that I was interested in the CCF frames. I just can't see where the break even is. I can buy G17's and G22's for between $400 and $450 all day long here in Vegas. I can't see the need to pay $400+ for a frame when I can buy another gun for the same money. As for durability, I can't fault Glocks. I've owned almost 20 of them and I shoot a lot (2000+ rds per month). None of mine have broken, but I know that it isn't unheard of. Of course Glock has made it right for the folks that have broken ones. My highest round count G17 is a 1st gen (single frame pin) with somewhere north of 100,000 rounds and nothing has broken or worn out except the extractor, springs and the frame pin. The recoil, even on 180PF .40 loads, isn't really that bad for me- so the added weight doesn't excite me.

it's not about durability it's about added weight for me. with 170 PF loads it's a really soft gun.

[ShaunH]

Wow. I'm really glad I saw this forum.

I wonder how titanium would hold up?

[PINMAN44]

Yeah titanium is coool stuff. But it is no longer a glock to me when u trick it out.

[Chuck Anderson]

Wow. I'm really glad I saw this forum.

I wonder how titanium would hold up?

It would probably hold up pretty well but the price of Titanium is really high right now. I don't think anyone, even Caspian, is making frames out of Ti at the moment.

[Alan Meek]

Talked to Gary at Caspian a week ago and they have a supplier for Titanium frames again. 1911 and Hi-Caps, as Caspian does not make a "Glock" frame.

Still pricey though by looking at their prices on the web site

Alan

[chirpy]

Got bad news this weekend. Saw my contact person and he said that the metal replacement frames for the Glock had too many problems to overcome (sorry to say! I was hoping). I can say now that he is from LW and they decided to bring out a plastic frame with replaceable BS instead. I hope to be able to reporte on it soon.

Sorry,

Richard

[Rob D]

The new polymer frame is on the cover of the LWD mailer I just got. Says they'll be available February '09. Has a rounded trigger guard, round magazine release, extended beavertail, optional integrated laser and two backstrap sizes. Looks pretty cool. Couldn't find anything on their website about it.

[dnuke146]

Recently my department requested two of CCF's frames for T&E with the 1911 grip. This was in response to trying to find a possible solution to the 3rd generation grip frame not fitting everyone's hand the same, and it possibly affecting qualification scores... please dont get me started, I am not a policy maker, just a problem solver(sights, trigger, squeeze, not jerk, duh), and this was not my idea... ANNNNYYYYYWWWAAAYYYY, we received two frames, on in SS and the other Aluminum. We assembed the two frames with our 3rd gen G22's and the only other part we swapped out, other than the frames of course, was, we used CCF's recoil guide/spring assembly. Took the guns to the range and ran 500 rounds through each, the boss said goto the range and shoot the crap out of these, and I said, ummmmm OK!. The SS frame ran flawlessly, no problems of any kind, and this was with zero lubrication on the frame, there may have been some inside the slide we put on it but that was it. This was not intentional but we figured out that we forgot to lube them after we started shooting them and said, lets see how they run. The Aluminum frame ran flawlessly with me the first mag and then handed it off to another shooter who started having failure to go into battery problems, large hands, high thumbs, may have been dragging on slide. Stripped the gun oiled it up and then shot 470 more rounds through it and it ran flawlessly as well. Threw a G35 slide on both frames at different times throughout the 500 rounds each that had a tungsten recoil guide, I think it was a T.H.E., with a non captured spring. Again flawless, both frames. Put my G34 slide on both guns with tungsten guide rod, 11lb non captured spring and 127pf ammo and ran 100 total between both springs, again flawless with the .40 cal ejector in both frames. The 1000 rounds we ran through the two frames was 155gr. Blazer, which chronoed at 192PF out of the G22 barrel.

I like the aluminum frame, the SS is just too heavy, it weighs 2 ounces more empty than my G22 with TLR-1 tactical light and 16 rounds of ammo in it. The additional beavertail area that is on the CCF frames makes the guns more enjoyable to shoot as I cant go 5 rounds without slicing my large hands open with my duty gun.

The other issue the frames solved that I saw was that we have had problems with some members having FTF problems while firing their G22's one handed either unsupported or while using flashlight techniques. We have changed mag springs, recoil springs, at Glocks suggestion and gone to hotter ammunition. Glock says its a ammunition issue and the ammunition company says its a frame flex issue with the glocks and tactical lights. Either way, we did not experience any of the problems we were having with the glocks when we used the CCF frames with tactical lights attached.

Not endorsing anything one way or the other, just sharing my experience with ya.

Doug

Oh, one other thing, the anodizing on the aluminum frame does not hold up well while wearing a tungsten carbide ring on your strong hand, just FYI

[Golden Boy]

Hey- Here is my CCF story. I've had the CCF stainless steel for about two years. I broke the locking block at 4000 rounds. It ran great for those 4000. CCF replaced the block. The new block in the frame produced FTE's. We tried almost everything to fix the issue and CCF finally said, "Just send me that frame, and I'll send you another one." Who does that? Nobody! Except CCF. The new frame runs great! I've got about 2000 rounds thru it on one buffer!!! I'm winning B class at state level competitions with it.

This is the sad truth. Most of us Glock guys like to think we are gunsmiths. We are not. We know how to turn a Dremal on and off and melt plastic. Even if we are certified Glock gunsmiths, we just don't know anything about metal frames. When CCF says to use OEM barrels there is a reason for it. When CCF says not to use a metal guide rod there is a reason for it. When CCF says to use a heavier recoil spring there is a reason for it. OEM barrels are plenty accurate and the weight of the frame far outweighs the weight of the spring or guide rod!!! All day long.

I like mine a lot.

[knobcreekllc]

I've read this forum from the periphery but never felt compelled to post in the past. That being said this is what I have to contribute:

Three of us bought CCF Stainless frames last year, and have had a good experience. Love the control and “soft” is about as accurate of a description of the recoil I can give. Mine was assembled with stock G35 upper (i remember the guy at CCF really emphasizing to stay with stock components, forget all the reasons but they made sense at the time) and i couldn't be happier - it's now past 17 - 18 thou rounds, had some FTEs that cleared when i went to new mags. My one buddy's has similar round count (we hit the range together 3 - 4 times a month), he had some issues early on, but was using an aftermarket slide & barrel. As soon as he went back to stock glock upper, his ran fine. The 3rd frame, built with G17 upper, hasn't had the round count put thru it ours have, but I'd easily guess somewhere around half the use ours have. In 9mm, that gun feels like I'm running a 22LR upper on it.

I've got to wonder how many of the problems others are reporting are from "mixing & matching" various non glock components?

[Golden Boy]

" had some FTEs that cleared when i went to new mags. "

That's funny on the new mags. Out of nowhere I had FTE's one time (3X on two different stages) and noticed one of the mags I dropped while clearing had a live round stovepiped through the feed lips. I took a pair of pliers and squeezed all the feed lips together and...problem solved. I bought 5 new ones that night. No FTE's since. The new ones I have have a stronger feed lip design too. The lip is attached to the corner and not split at the corner like the old ones. Gotta love 5 new mags for $100!!!

[Jim Taylor]

Just a couple of items about the CCF SS Frame. I have run one of these for about 18 months. About 15,000 rounds through it with the only problem being the Failure to Extract mentioned prominently here and in other threads. This problem has to do with mags, not the frame. I replaced the old mags and the gun runs like a hose. As far as I can tell the mag lips open up and let the spring push the cartridge a little higher. Because the frame slide fit is tighter, the interference causes the shot case to stay in the chamber, causing the mother of all jams. New mags solve this problem by holding the cartridge lower until the extraction of the spent case is complete. Probably cutting a coil or so off the mag spring would also solve this problem if you are cheap and like to tinker.

Note that I shoot the frame with a G17 top end in IDPA. Yes, I cut an inch off the dust cover as well as cutting off the extended beavertail. A hand fitted JP Rifles magwell is on the frame as well. Like Flex, I shoot the stock spring setup on every Glock I have.

Also, I put a G24 top end on this frame for my initial foray into Limited. Absolutely no problems here at all with major 40 ammo. The pistol is soft shooting, but the slide needs to be lightened in order to optimize cycling. I have a G22 CCF slide that I am planning to lighten. I have Arrendondo and Taylor Freelance basepads, both of which work well.

In addition, I have the aluminum frame. I put a G31 top end on it and it shoots very well even with the high velocity 357 SIG ammo I have. It doesn't make sense, but this frame feels better with the 357 SIG than the steel one does.

Best regards,

Jim Taylor

Glen Allen VA

[hkinsured1]

Glock Reliability? Solid.

I have shot thousands of rounds through many a Glock and no Glock induced problems. I own at least a dozen.

In Fact, I had one of the E series that was listed for recall. (Yes JKSNIPWE, it was a serial number series) Being the stubborn person I am, I never sent the frame back. I was cleaning the gun (I do that every now and then) one day and noticed the left rear rail was missing. I found the rail piece in the parts washer. I know I had shot at least two local matches with that gun since the last cleaning. The G17 ran fine. I sent the gun back to Glock and they replaced the frame promptly. Great Customer Service.

That my friend is reliable!

Just making an observation here... What you describe above does not define reliability, it defines a "less than perfect" gun that has inherent flaws. You, my friend, were lucky.

I have owned a CCF frame for about a year now and have had no major issues with it. I really like the .40 cal round, but would have never bought a Glock in .40 due to issues I had seen over the years with them. I bought the G35 specifically to marry it to a CCF frame because I loved the weight and feel it had. I put the gun back together with stock parts for about 500rds and then started adding aftermarket parts one at a time and test running the gun to ensure I hadn't introduced a weak link into the equation. So far I have about 5k rounds through it with no major issues and I am happy with it overall. I'll put it to you this way, I'd trust it for a home defense gun without a second thought. Just my .02...

JB

[SharonAnne9x23]

I am confused. Why is anyone trying to make a 'glock' more 1911-like by installing a metal frame. It seems to me if you are going to the trouble to replace the frame with a metal one, and replace the slide with a Caspian 'glock' slide, why not just get a 1911? It most certainly is no longer a Glock. Once you have replace the frame/receiver, you no longer have a Glock. What is 'the gun'? It is the receiver/frame. So when you put a Glock top end on a CCF frame, you have a CCF, with a Glock top end. You do not have a Glock with a CCF lower.

[skeeter]

I am confused. Why is anyone trying to make a 'glock' more 1911-like by installing a metal frame. It seems to me if you are going to the trouble to replace the frame with a metal one, and replace the slide with a Caspian 'glock' slide, why not just get a 1911? It most certainly is no longer a Glock. Once you have replace the frame/receiver, you no longer have a Glock. What is 'the gun'? It is the receiver/frame. So when you put a Glock top end on a CCF frame, you have a CCF, with a Glock top end. You do not have a Glock with a CCF lower.

i'm not trying to make it like a 1911. i like the glock grip angle, trigger ect.. but i most be getting old, i wanted a heavier softer shooting gun.

[Glockcomma]

I own the CCF open gun that was in the Jan./Feb. issue of Front Sight. I had a none frame related component malfunction at about 5,000 rounds up until that time the gun ran great. Very flat (at 49 ounces) very accurate and very reliable I'm still on My first shock buff I run only ISMI recoil springs in Glocks this gun likes a 13# minus a few coils. While it was at the smith I had John Nagel replace the CCF locking block with a stock Glock mine wasn't broken and the installation requires machining, will see how this turns out. I also have an SJC polymer open gun at 34 ounces it is really sweet also but I prefer the steel gun. I bought a nice 5" S_I (why don't we use all the letters when referring to this manufacture) open gun to shoot while My gun was in the shop, it's a great gun but I don't know what gun I'll end up with as My main match gun. The Glock is more comfortable to grip you don't have external safeties to mess with and I like how fast the trigger resets. And just because you use an aftermarket slide or a frame that adds weight, longer rails and has less flex doesn't mean your denying 1911 tendencies any more than if you shoot a linkless Briley you should run out and get a real Glock.

[ghost21]

Recently my department requested two of CCF's frames for T&E with the 1911 grip. This was in response to trying to find a possible solution to the 3rd generation grip frame not fitting everyone's hand the same, and it possibly affecting qualification scores... please dont get me started, I am not a policy maker, just a problem solver(sights, trigger, squeeze, not jerk, duh), and this was not my idea... ANNNNYYYYYWWWAAAYYYY, we received two frames, on in SS and the other Aluminum. We assembed the two frames with our 3rd gen G22's and the only other part we swapped out, other than the frames of course, was, we used CCF's recoil guide/spring assembly. Took the guns to the range and ran 500 rounds through each, the boss said goto the range and shoot the crap out of these, and I said, ummmmm OK!. The SS frame ran flawlessly, no problems of any kind, and this was with zero lubrication on the frame, there may have been some inside the slide we put on it but that was it. This was not intentional but we figured out that we forgot to lube them after we started shooting them and said, lets see how they run. The Aluminum frame ran flawlessly with me the first mag and then handed it off to another shooter who started having failure to go into battery problems, large hands, high thumbs, may have been dragging on slide. Stripped the gun oiled it up and then shot 470 more rounds through it and it ran flawlessly as well. Threw a G35 slide on both frames at different times throughout the 500 rounds each that had a tungsten recoil guide, I think it was a T.H.E., with a non captured spring. Again flawless, both frames. Put my G34 slide on both guns with tungsten guide rod, 11lb non captured spring and 127pf ammo and ran 100 total between both springs, again flawless with the .40 cal ejector in both frames. The 1000 rounds we ran through the two frames was 155gr. Blazer, which chronoed at 192PF out of the G22 barrel.

I like the aluminum frame, the SS is just too heavy, it weighs 2 ounces more empty than my G22 with TLR-1 tactical light and 16 rounds of ammo in it. The additional beavertail area that is on the CCF frames makes the guns more enjoyable to shoot as I cant go 5 rounds without slicing my large hands open with my duty gun.

The other issue the frames solved that I saw was that we have had problems with some members having FTF problems while firing their G22's one handed either unsupported or while using flashlight techniques. We have changed mag springs, recoil springs, at Glocks suggestion and gone to hotter ammunition. Glock says its a ammunition issue and the ammunition company says its a frame flex issue with the glocks and tactical lights. Either way, we did not experience any of the problems we were having with the glocks when we used the CCF frames with tactical lights attached.

Not endorsing anything one way or the other, just sharing my experience with ya.

Doug

Oh, one other thing, the anodizing on the aluminum frame does not hold up well while wearing a tungsten carbide ring on your strong hand, just FYI

Just asking,Are you with a police department? And wouldnt it be a liability issue if you or anyother members carried these pistols built on CCF frames? Sounds like it would be like me using handloaded ammo for self-defense! ( Not a good idea)

Just curious.

Jeff