CCF Frames Anyone Really Happy?

[abn-rgr]

Ok. Ill man up and admit I was over the top in my comments. I didnt realize at the time how my comments could cause damage to CCF. For that I apologize. The main person Im thinking of is Charles P from MO. He sent his frame in twice with broken locking blocks. He was running stock parts except for maybe a connector and striker spring. His frame is now sitting at home with the third block broken and he finally gave up on it. He actually has two frames with broken blocks. I really had hoped to be able to run a CCF with aftermarket stuff and i see this wont happen. I have had a smith working on my CCF for over a year. he is fitting an aftermarket barrel on a caspian slide. Im just frustrated that it seems like it still wont work right. CCF originally said to have a gunsmith fit the parts. Now we are being told only run them with stock stuff. I again apologize for my over the top comments. I hope the bugs are worked out because I think the concept is a great idea.

thanks for your response

i know who you're referring to, and believe he had two locking blocks break on one frame, and one lock block on another frame - we supported him with a couple of the blocks but after that, i felt something in his useage was inducing those failures, possibly a lighter value spring as he is competing

on your frame, as some here on this forum have reported, some of the aftermarket slides have been so far out of spec they were unrepairable and they sent them back. Surprisingly, there are a number of difficult areas of the Glock® slide to machine properly - one is the angle in the firing pin well, and with that well being stepped the way it is, it makes it difficult to pickup, whether at the machinist's station or at the gunsmith's bench - we picked that up fairly quick in modeling the glock slide. There's also a slight angle in the extractor well that is difficult to measure and confirm. And to compound the problem the fabrication (machine shops) shops, if you don't QC the slides tightly, they'll take shortcuts in their machining ops to save time in machining them, which means a savings in costs but the shortcuts also mean a loss in tolerances. If those areas are off, you'll have FTEs. We also noticed in one of the aftermarket slides, the inside front corners differed from the original glock®, and that shortcut is fine on a Glock® but the larger radius'd inside corners impinge on the front ends of the front slide rails And back to what we strongly recommend, ie staying with stock components for use with our frame. This is not to bash anyone's aftermarket components for use on orig Glocks® - it's just that we do not recommend them for use on our frames.

without having the full details of your build, can i ask, have you tried the aftermarket slide on a glock frame and if so, did it run?

vice versa, did you try a glock slide on your frame and did it run?

if you can email me at larryccf@mindspring.com, that's my personal email address, identify yourself in the email and i'll throw you a phone number that hopefully we can have a conversation this weekend and maybe give you some suggestions.

I'd rather your project ran than sitting on a bench at a gunsmith with you unhappy about it.

Thanks for the offer on working with me on my project. When I put my stock 35 upper on, it ran great for the 100 rounds or so I put through it. I only did this test just because I was so excited about it. I had intended all along to have a "race" gun built. The parts have all been at a gunsmiths for a year because I havent been able to get hold of him to find out the progress. Long story, but suffice it to say, I will contact you when it is all done if I have any problems. I know you guys have fixes for some of the aftermarket part problems, and I am thrilled to hear some suggestions. Again, I aplogize for my previous comments and hope these frames become as succesful as they can.

[larryccf]

abn-rgr: "...When I put my stock 35 upper on, it ran great for the 100 rounds or so I put through it. .."

That at least gives some confirmation of what i've been saying about the aftermarket components. Again, this is not to attack them, but it's hard for CCF to accept the blame for failings in another supplier's components to maintain tight tolerances. And there are two areas in the Glock® slide that are extremely difficult to even detect, much less execute tightly; the angle in the firing pin well, and the extractor well itself. We've seen some aftermarket extractor wells that were as much as 17 thouandths too shallow, which meant the extractor would have had it's "reach" to the case's rim shortened by 17 thou. The extractor doesn't get that much bite to begin with, with no allowance for shortening that reach.

We're using a very high end shop to fabricate our slides, and we've had to reject the first 3 batches of G17 slides. Normally they'd do "sample article units" but they thought the same data from the G22 slides would serve. On the last batch, there was a deviation we couldn't measure in house, and had to send them out to a shop with a CMM to pickup that one measurement, so we could pass it back to our supplier to help dial in their fixture and toolhead. We only knew it had to be off, as we test fired 3 of the slides and all exhibited FTEs. Once they get their fixtures and toolheads dialed in, then it's downhill from there.

It will still be helpful to call me - some of the items i was going to go over with you regard the smith - if he's a 1911 smith, it will be difficult for him to diagnose that glock lockup sequence. The gunsmiths i've named here in this thread have spent a considerable amount of time learning the Glock® setup, and most of their education came from "trial and error" in figuring out the glock lockup sequence and what wear points to watch. And they had to be talented to deduct / learn what they have, as there have been a good number that tried and failed.

Again, what's so deceptive about a Glock®, it's set up to loose tolerances for extremely reliable functioning, that users assume it must be an easy setup to tune. That loose setup sets you up for disappointment when you tighten one area and don't make the necessary adjustments in others.

and can i ask you, kindly, to go back and edit that original post to a more accurate statement - leaving the stmt "several friends who have returned theirs 4-5 times" is kind of hard to look at and a lot of folks reading this thread will stop on the first couple of pages

tks in advance

Edited December 26, 2008 by larryccf

[abn-rgr]

Will do. Merry Christmas.....

ETA, I just went back and tried to edit and the edit button isnt showing up on my old posts. Anyone have a fix???

Edited December 25, 2008 by abn-rgr

[warpspeed]

Will do. Merry Christmas.....

ETA, I just went back and tried to edit and the edit button isnt showing up on my old posts. Anyone have a fix???

it can't be edited after a couple of days ( 48 hrs i think ). See if you can get Flex to fix it for you.

[Flexmoney]

Moderator note (also found in the first post on this thread):

I originally edited this thread to add a poll to it...as we seemed to get a lot of "second hand" opinions on the CCF frame from those that didn't have one.

Since that time, the thread has run long. Many pages into the thread, and after closer scrutiny, I've been contacted by a number of members that wish to edit what they originally posted. We really don't do that here. If you post something, you need to stand by it. Accountability.

If you now see things in a different light...good on you. And, thanks for being big enough to step up and say so. But, we won't be going back and editing past content. (we don't really have the time and means to do that type of thing)

So, those reading this thread for info...be sure to read it to the end and get a complete picture.

- Admin.

[chirpy]

Flex...larryCCF asked one of us to edit because some new to the thread might not read past the questionable post and get the wrong idea and leave the thread so some of us thought it might be a good idea to modify and or clarify. I believe we understand and agree with the reasoning behind your post.

Thanks,

Richard

PS: I stand behind my posts but want to do what I can to help.

[ampdog]

I am not a competition shooter or an expert. I have several hand guns and a CCF with a OEM Glock Barrel and Caspian 35 slide.

It's just my 2 cents, but I have really enjoyed mine. It's my favorite shooter even over my Sig. It feels great and shoots great. I haven't had any reliability problems. I like it so much that I am building another one.

Edited December 30, 2008 by ampdog

[Glockcomma]

I also have a CCF aluminum framed carry/nightstand gun. It is smooth, tight and accurate the gun has a Lone Wolf slide and a stock g17 barrel. Although I don't have anywhere near as many rounds through it as I do My CCF open gun it has been 100% reliable since the very first shot.

[Duane Thomas]

Might it be an idea to edit the "I don't have/had one" option out of the poll? Really, what possible value to the percentile results could that possibly provide?

[Flexmoney]

Might it be an idea to edit the "I don't have/had one" option out of the poll? Really, what possible value to the percentile results could that possibly provide?

I purposely put that option there in the poll. As people were talking out their ass about stuff they didn't know about first hand...or even second hand.

Plus, it's good polling to give some sort of "none of the above" option.

[hkinsured1]

Hope not to offend anybody, but I am not surprised, however, to hear of problems with the guns modified for competition or otherwise. CCRF specifically explains on their web site that the frames are designed for stock parts only.

Kind of ironic dont you think, considering they're called RACE frames.

I think that's so that "Joe Idiot" doesn't try and build himself a "race" gun when he doesn't know what he's doing. The reason the "drop-in" barrels don't give people issues on stock glock frames is because they are flexible and forgiving enough to accept out of spec barrels.

JB

[vkosty]

As promised, brief range report on my freshly built all metal G17 with CCR aluminum frame and all stock parts.

After 2 range visits tot he total of 250 rounds slow fire or otherwise, not a single malfunction, not that I expected any.

have shot many different pistols, including a number of guns with polymer frames, and I must say my alloy G17 is by far the best pistol I've ever handled. In fact it is so easy to shoot well that it almost takes all fun of target shooting. I will trust my life to this gun as a primary defence pistol any time and intend to make it my carry gun as well.

The fact that I need to wathch the buffer for ware and tear and perfom regular maitanence on the pisotl does not bother me at all. I do it with any firearm anyway.

So this is to add to my earlier vote of complete satisfaction with and complete trust in Larry's product.

P.S.

Although I have shot many polymer guns in the past, including Glocks in every caliber, I would have never bought one (I actually owned Beretta Px4 and traded it in), for no other reason than a personal idiosincazy to plastic pistols. CCR frames opened the Glock world for me.

[Mad Scientist]

here are a couple of guns that are on CCF frames.

the open gun is great with lots of rounds and no problems

The 24 is new and runs real good.have several hundred rounds thru

John

[ampdog]

I just wanted to chime in on this topic again. Concerned by some of the posts on this thread I considered that maybe I hadn't pushed my CCF G35 hard enough to really know if was reliable or not. So, Friday morning I got up and cleaned my the gun, then went to the range with some cheap reload ammo. I put 350 rounds through it in less than an hours time. Not one problem! Not to mention some very impessive accuracy at 55yrds.

[jsykes]

John, what are the details on those builds. I see one is a Caspian frame, what barrels are you using in them? Also, were they "home assembled" or did a smith build and fit all the parts for you?

[Mad Scientist]

John, what are the details on those builds. I see one is a Caspian frame, what barrels are you using in them? Also, were they "home assembled" or did a smith build and fit all the parts for you?

The guns were assembled at my home away from home asI am a one of the owners of SJC

as for the details

open gun------------------------------------------------------ limited gun

CCF frame w caspian slide-------------------------------- CCF frame w caspian slide

kkm hybrid barrel-------------------------------------------kkm barrel

sjc comp ----------------------------------------------------sjc magwell

sjc mount w c-more --------------------------------------- sjc button

sjc magwell--------------------------------------------------caspian "bomar rear site"

sjc racker ---------------------------------------------------dawson fiber optic front site

sjc button ---------------------------------------------------2 pound short triger

2 pound short triger ----------------------------------------ls stricker

ls stricker----------------------------------------------------ls plunger

ls plunger----------------------------------------------------ls cover plate

ls cover plate

as for the fitment I sugest that this type of build be left to a pro as the tolarances are critical .and all the parts need to be touched as thier are no drop in parts with a ccf short of stock Glock.per the manufacturer.

John

Edited January 4, 2009 by Mad Scientist

[JTew]

John, what are the details on those builds. I see one is a Caspian frame, what barrels are you using in them? Also, were they "home assembled" or did a smith build and fit all the parts for you?

Mad Scientist is the J in S&J Customs. See link below. Great guys to work with. I have had them work on 4 of my guns and they are sweet.

http://www.glockjockey.com/index.html

Edited January 4, 2009 by JTew

[g22sharpie]

Here is my input on the CCF frame:

I am new to the forum and this thread caught my eye since I have a CCF frame for a G22. I have had the frame for about 2 years now, with about 1,500 rounds through it, and have ran two different G22 uppers on it, one from a Gen 2 and one from a Gen 3 Glock, and have had not one problem that I can relate to the frame.

I have the stainless frame and like the extra weight as it helps me specifically with controlling the recoil and staying on target.

I am currently building a complete "CCF22" 0.40 SW gun with their CCF upper and CCF barrel; Larry at CCF is a great guy to work with and he stands behind his product. I have never had an issue communicating with Larry and will continue to do business with him since he has shown that he is a man of integrity.

Thanks.

[WES GRANT]

WHILE I HAVE ALWAYS RESPECTED GLOCKS (AND GLOCK SHOOTERS), THE PISTOLS HAVE NEVER DONE MUCH FOR ME, PERSONALLY, AS I AM A LONG-TIME 1911 FAN.

A GLOCK WOULD NOT BE IN MY SAFE IF IT WERE NOT FOR THE IMPROVED GRIP ANGLE OFFERED BY THE CCF RACEFRAME. I NOW HAVE TWO (G17 & G34) WITH CCF RACEFRAMES (STAINLESS AND ALUMINUM, RESPECTIVELY) AND I PLAN TO BUY A THIRD ALUMINUM FRAME. I USE STOCK UPPERS ON BOTH WITH EXCELLENT RESULTS.

GOOD SHOOTING,

WES GRANT

HTTP://MSTN.BIZ

Edited January 20, 2009 by WES GRANT

[Duane Thomas]

Whoa, dude! Turn down the volume!

[Tom S.]

WHILE I HAVE ALWAYS RESPECTED GLOCKS (AND GLOCK SHOOTERS), THE PISTOLS HAVE NEVER DONE MUCH FOR ME, PERSONALLY, AS I AM A LONG-TIME 1911 FAN.

A GLOCK WOULD NOT BE IN MY SAFE IF IT WERE NOT FOR THE IMPROVED GRIP ANGLE OFFERED BY THE CCF RACEFRAME. I NOW HAVE TWO (G17 & G34) WITH CCF RACEFRAMES (STAINLESS AND ALUMINUM, RESPECTIVELY) AND I PLAN TO BUY A THIRD ALUMINUM FRAME. I USE STOCK UPPERS ON BOTH WITH EXCELLENT RESULTS.

GOOD SHOOTING,

WES GRANT

HTTP://MSTN.BIZ

Turn off the Caps Lock and fix your link: http://www.mstn.biz/

Edited January 20, 2009 by Tom S.

[badchad]

Is it just me or is there an inordinate amount of brand new posters signing on, whose only thing they have to say is how they love the CCF frame?

Any GMs use one?

[racerba]

Just a question...

If you are using a CCF Frame (which is considerably different than a Glock frame) with Caspian slide and a KKM barrel and basically all aftermarket parts, why is it still considered a Glock?!?!

Edited January 20, 2009 by racerba

[Duane Thomas]

I think "Glock", with the multiplicity of parts available out there, is beginning to become a generic term, like "1911".

[larryccf]

Is it just me or is there an inordinate amount of brand new posters signing on, whose only thing they have to say is how they love the CCF frame?

Any GMs use one?

yes, but mainly because after seeing this thread, i asked customers that were running our frame if they wouldn't mind posting - the negative posts at the beginning of this thread give a distorted view of the product - folks that have problems, whether operator fault or mfgr fault, are going to be the first to post - folks that are happy with their purchase generally just run them and aren't involved in web chat forums

hopefully, you'll understand that we'd want those folks to report their results so viewers got a balanced perspective