Growing the Sport!

[Topmaul]

So what do you folks think how do we grow the sport?

I just wanted to see what others thought one thing I think is critical is getting young shooters involved. That means bring your kids and teach them to shoot in competition. We need to borrow a page from the SASS play book and involve the family, my daughter came to an IDPA match with me one day she got a little board and volunteered to be a score keeper now I have to buy her a pistol so she can start shooting IDPA with me. She has already laid claim to my new AR build by naming the gun George. I think I have the makings of a next genoration shooter here.

We need to get the kids out there shooting granted it might not be politicaly correct.

Joe4d, agreed kids don't have the money but if Dad is shooting already why not bring junior when he or she is old enough the junior will grow up and continue shooting maybe bring a few friends along.

Edited July 5, 2008 by Topmaul

[Modoc]

I am very new to 3Gun coming from CAS (that's Cowboy Action Shooting)and yet to shoot a 3 Gun match . But we are getting a small group of interested shooters at our local USPSA club, our only issiue is that the nearest matches are 3+ hours away at the moment . Hopefully we will get enough interest to at least car-pool and maybe do some practice matches.

[M ammo]

So what do you folks think how do we grow the sport?

I’m working on growing 3 Gun. Right now.

I should have a Book done soon.

How to.

Guns, gear, how to start a club, make up stages. And run a match.

Jim M ammo

[M ammo]

And if anyone has any 3 Gun input that they just have to put out.

Or you have something to say.

Let me know, I’ll try to work it in.

Jim M ammo

[Flexmoney]

If you are going to plug your book, please share something with the forum.

[bigbrowndog]

I know that Jim,has asked for information on 3gunning and shooting from me for his book. i am happy to help anyone with information and guidance, although sometimes I can be hard to take seriously.

several forum members routinely solicit information from me on gear, technique, and other things. If you want to grow the sport you need to give back, its easy to give back to folks that want to learn and help and are willing to listen and exchange ideas with.

it doesn't take young shooters it takes MORE shooters.

Flex, thank you. I was hoping someone would do that, i don't mean mention the book..

trapr

Edited July 4, 2008 by bigbrowndog

[TRUBL]

The sad thing is......the reality is.......we are getting old, just a quick guestamate.....we are averaging about 40-45yo in this sport. The good news is, it is way less than other shooting sports, but is increasing.....that means although the old dogs are still here, there are not many young pups to take our place. So one thing is to get these younger shooters involved (yeah, yeah, same ole, same ole...preach to the choir)

Another reality is.....it costs to darn much!!! The NRA says to expect a 20% decrease this year in the shooting sports due to ammo prices....personally I havent seen it yet. All the major matches are full or REALLY close to full. But the sad fact is, it is an expensive sport. Personally, I do not shoot local matches much any more, some due to cost of ammo, travel, etc....some due to family things. Another issue is practice!!! THATS spendy too!!

The way to grow the sport?? keep costs down...on a personal level. And truthfully, 3 gun aint gonna do that anytime soon. I've been toying with the idea of actually another sport, that is totally related to 3 gun....but at a significant overall cost reduction. Tidily winks....just kidding. Actually, what I am thinking of is something that has kind of spawned from the side matches we've been running at the major 3 gun matches........22rf matches. Imagine this....you have a .22 rifle and a .22 pistol, call it mouse 2 gun, whatever. But it is basically run as a 3 gun, with rim fire. Low cost, pistol ranges that could never even begin to think about having 3 gun matches could do this. And every once in a while, throw in a shotgun stage or 2 (optional, or as a side match). What I am getting at is.....to grow the grow the 3 gun sport....spark some interest.....reduce the cost, let more local matches offer this game to people, while on a reduced scale.....using the same rules....heck even the same pistol range equipment (It's really cool to knock down full size poppers at 15 yards with a .22 talk about double and triple tapping!!) What I am talking about here is someone ought to grab the bull by the b....errrr horns and get something started on this at a national scale, so that we can stop asking people to come out to 3 gun matches....we won't need too, get them started in something less expensive and like one NJ cop said......this is like crack, its addictive!! People will come.

Oh yeah....and we have to get our kids involved too

Tim

PS...what book? can I help?

Edited July 4, 2008 by TRUBL

[Religious Shooter]

Yup...

Cheaper... and easier (and I don't mean the shots).

You can make it cheaper by not having to buy so much stuff. And you can make it easier by not having to read and understand a different set of rules everytime you go to a different match.

[Joe4d]

Kids arnt gonna grow the sport, the over 30 crowd with the finances, time, and transportation will. 3 gun needs to learn from the mistakes of Cowboy. Maybe not mistakes but policies that have limited or even stopped growth. Needing 3 guns to even show up at a match is why I didnt shoot cowboy and started into IDPA and later USPSA. Even though initially I was more interested in CAS and had never heard of IDPA and thought USPSA was all about space guns. A new 3 gun club trying to get started needs to hold seperate stages basically three matches in one, pistol, rifle, shotgun. Say 6 stages, 2 per gun. The 2 pistol stages are scored as a pistol match, the two rifle as a rifle match, etc etc. That way you'll attract shooters who only have one or two of the guns. They can compete in their respective divisions. As your base grows and you can change to multi gun stages and scoring based on the turnout in the 3 different gun divisions.

[LChico]

One of our local clubs started to offer rifle side matches or shotgun side matches after the main pistol match. Sometimes the shotgun matches could make use of the props that were already set up for pistol stages. They announced these "side matches" a month in advance & got shooters used to bringing their long guns to the pistol match. They kept the cost down - an extra 5 dollars per stage in the side match. Each stage could be a stand-alone. You did not have to shoot them all. No prizes, just bragging rights and a chance to spend more time shooting.

They are now making plans for a full fledged 6 stage 3 gun match. Interest is higher because everyone has an idea about what the stages will be like. Many of their local shooters may have hesitated to sign up for a 3 gun match if they had not been working up to it for a while after the pistol matches.

Linda Chico (L-2035)

Columbia SC

[Flexmoney]

From what I've observed, there is a lot of truth in all of the posts so far.

(I'd add more, but I am going to try to mow some before dark...so I can see about shooting tomorrow.)

[TRUBL]

Never mind my tongue in cheek comments on the kids thing...I mean it is important, Joe, but yes it is the ones with the expendable income and time that we need to target.

Keep in mind though....the whole draw of 3 gun is variety and action....the adrenaline rush....with more than one gun!!! I did come from USPSA 3 gun where they did (key word...did) do 1 gun per stage and I did like it.....and then I went somewhere that allowed me to use 2 or 3 on a stage....and never looked back. Keeping that in mind, it is easy with one per stage to see where you lack......there is something to be said about 1 gun per stage in the beginning.

And yes Linda, one local club here in MN is doing the same you are talking about to spark some interest as well.....actually been doing that for a few years!! It's really helped too.

Tim

Edited July 5, 2008 by TRUBL

[bigbrowndog]

Mow!!!!!!!

they don't pay you enough to get someone to do that for you.

I do think cheaper, and one gun at a time (simple) is the key to start. If I could figure out how to be off work more than I already am, I would be interested in starting a 22rf carbine match in my area but only being off work every third weekend makes it darn near impossible. Getting help may be the key!!!!

plates suitable for 22 rimfire are easy to come by, and 1/2 size to 1/4 size paper targets would be great, now if I could only remember who used those kinds of paper targets?????????????????

trapr

[Benelli Chick]

C&M Target Systems

PO Box 67913

Albuquerque, NM 87193-7913

Makes the 1/2 dimensions, 1/4 area paper targets used at RM3G and Johnson!

[caspian guy]

Our club has started running 2 rifle stages after every pistol match.

One is usually a re-shoot of one of the pistol stages. The other is a dedicated rifle stage. The folks that shoot with us seem to like it. It seemed like a good way to start people thinking about more than one gun at a match...

Peter Adams

FY-39604

[Topmaul]

My gun club has a monthly match which they call "Tactical Shotgun" in truth there is little tactical about it but it is a lot of fun, the trouble is that there are getting to be fewer and fewer shooters there each time this trend started a few years back and now frankly we are getting about 15 or so shooters.

[Merlin Orr]

Mow!!!!!!!

they don't pay you enough to get someone to do that for you.

I do think cheaper, and one gun at a time (simple) is the key to start. If I could figure out how to be off work more than I already am, I would be interested in starting a 22rf carbine match in my area but only being off work every third weekend makes it darn near impossible. Getting help may be the key!!!!

plates suitable for 22 rimfire are easy to come by, and 1/2 size to 1/4 size paper targets would be great, now if I could only remember who used those kinds of paper targets?????????????????

trapr

There are several of us in the Corpus area wanting to do the same thing.... Lets share ideas...

[Joe4d]

"the whole draw of 3 gun is variety and action....the adrenaline rush....with more than one gun!!"

That's the draw and fun for people who all ready shoot it. The subject of this thread is , "Growing the Sport" the above statement is a hindrance to growth. Adding aditional gun side stages to established pistol matches will grow the sport. Just like me and Linda described.

[M ammo]

If you are going to plug your book, please share something with the forum.

The book is not that close to being done yet. I have a day job that keeps me busy, kids a home and all that oh ya and I try to shoot matches and practice when I can. I am working with a publisher. And shooting books are a nitch subject. It is not like they pay you. In fact I have to pay them. And they will put it in production. And print it and do all the shipping.

I will not be quitting my day job anytime soon.

I have ideas, in one of the chapters, about shooting .22 rifle. For instance if you have an indoor range that is pistol only.

The Idea is not to come up with ways. Too have a match. Not reasons why you can not have one.

With Power point I have made up targets. To shoot rifle at short distance. Gauged properly, it can give some sort of long distance effect.

For those of us that have a place to shoot a 3 gun, but it doesn’t have 100-200+ yards to shoot rifle. You have to use your imagination and do what you can do.

Cut grass,,, that would mean you have had rain,,, I would like to have rain!!

[FLG8R]

Keeping costs down is key...once introduced properly to action shooting sports the addiction will feed itself. TRUBL has the right idea, keeping up with side matches and maybe even larger mainline events with 22 rimfire stages would be fun and could easily introduce a variety of people already interested in shooting to expanding their shooting experience. Remember, most of us already drive 1-1.5 hours or more to get to some of theses "local" matches, and with the price of everything (gas,ammo, equipment) showing no signs of tapering back down, even the young and working with semi-disposable incomes are thinking twice about jumping in to the sport... I doubt that this 3-gun phenomena will ever be mainstream, i.e advertised on ABC sports/ESPN/ primetime television...although that I hope it someday will, so being sure we can keep it popular and affordable for those with the tendacy to participate is going to be vital...just my $0.02

[steel1212]

A new 3 gun club trying to get started needs to hold seperate stages basically three matches in one, pistol, rifle, shotgun. Say 6 stages, 2 per gun. The 2 pistol stages are scored as a pistol match, the two rifle as a rifle match, etc etc. That way you'll attract shooters who only have one or two of the guns. They can compete in their respective divisions. As your base grows and you can change to multi gun stages and scoring based on the turnout in the 3 different gun divisions.

We kind of do that here. We have 4 pistol stages, a rifle stage and a shotgun stage or a rifle/shotgun stage. Guys that want to shoot it all do and guys that just want to shoot the pistol do.

[Chris Conley]

We have a saying at my home club "If you shoot a multigun match one time, we gotcha". Pretty much that's it. It's done thru stage design and how friendly the club members treat you. All can remember how the first 3 gun match that you shot. Damn shotgun!..... Damn rifle wasn't zeroed right!..... I've seen I don't know how many pistol shooters ask about 3 gun during a pistol match and someone always comes up and says "show up and shoot and you can use my stuff the next match and see if you like it". Everyone has the attitude of let's see if we can get another over to the Dark Side. They are all there to help the new guys out. I think that's why our club has such a "hardcore" following.

Another is innovative stage design. I mean put some stuff out there that will challenge you. The best matches that I have ever shot have been our local match. You see some wack stuff, but fair. You have the feeling like "Holy shat man, I want to shoot that again" with a smile on your face.

I'm a nobody shooter.. (right now) but I have a 5 year old that can cram 8 shells in a shotgun better than yours. One hour a day 2 days a week is dedicated to him. He can take apart and put together an AR and draws my airsoft pistol like a champ. Fundementals... I wish that I had that chance at his age. Expose them to it when they are young. My son has been going to 3 gun matches since he was two years old. I catch him practicing with his nerf dart guns all the time. Youth are about 25% of the future. When I get a new AR, shotgun, or pistol I won't sell the old one. That way I can hold on to it and keep it for him someday when he is ready. And when he's ready he'll have the tools and the club backing to be great! If he sticks with it he'll be a machine. As long as I can keep the cars and girls out of it.

Here's part of the future:

If you don't get the youth interested then that's 25% we didn't get.

Chris C.

Edited July 5, 2008 by Chris Conley

[kurtm]

I'm sure I would take that bet on your 8 year old, I,ve got 3 of them (8years old)...and ..well although they can only grab two at a time, they can sure stuff a shotgun...weak-hand naturally!

I agree Chris!! It is the energy of the club and making it user friendly for the new folk. Try it once and you won't go back! Multi-gun wise everyone could take a note from your club! KurtM

[TRUBL]

Seems like some clubs are doing the rifle or shotgun side matches already.....this would be a BIG bonus if more clubs could do that. Seems like we'd be in agreement with that!!! A local thing

Starting 3 gun at a small, entry level scale at local clubs...at clubs that can do that (some can't for one reason or another).....another BIG bonus. Another agreement!!!

Now.....how do we get this out to these local clubs shooting pistol??? How do we get them to spark and interest in it??? Am I assuming correctly that when we talk about clubs holding pistol matches....we are talking USPSA and/or IDPA? If that is the case.....maybe doing an article about rifle or shotgun side matches in the Front Sight?? (and what ever IDPA has for a rag? sorry....never shot IDPA, don't know much about them). Might take off and get some more clubs to hold these type of side matches. As more locals get hooked....the sport grows. OK...who's a good writer?? Who wants to write a slam bang article for Front Sight? They are always looking for stuff like this anyways. And don't forget the pictures!!!

Mouse 2gun matches?? Even if its a local side match? Or maybe a "hey, I got this cool toy, lets try it out on stage ?? after the match", Who knows? 550 rounds of ammo is a pretty cheap way to get 5 or 10 people a borrowed rifle in their hands after a match sometime.

Tim

[Flexmoney]

The hard core guys/gals will shoot. You got them. (Be careful talking to them Mr. Match Director...they will prod you for more and more...like junkies. )

Growth comes from elsewhere.