Lead prices have fallen dramatically in last 6 months

[JThompson]

Edited: Iffy on forum rules

Edited May 28, 2008 by JThompson

[mdstihl]

While lead prices may be falling, that is not the only ingredient in making a bullet.

There is Copper for jackets.

And then there is ENERGY; to run the machines, to ship in the raw material, to ship out the finished product and to cause employees to want a raise just to cover the cost of getting to work.

If lead were free, there would still be a substaintial cost to making a bullet.

Jim

A lone voice of reason.

[Bruce]

I wonder if a bunch of emails to MG about lead prices vs. bullet prices might help?

It would proably help you get put on the pain in the ass customer list that didn't get to buy any more bullets from them.

That might not be so bad. Think of all the money you could save by buying your own cheap lead and casting them yourself.

They have a "pain in the ass customer with cash to spend" ban list?

[EricW]

Uhh...guys...before we go crazy on MG, please do keep in mind that there is a certain level of financial "inertia" involved in buying commodities. They likely have to buy huge volumes to get any type of decent pricing and their prices are going to reflect the costs of what they bought the materials for, not current spot metals prices.

Also, like Jim said, energy is an issue, and MG is probably paying fuel surcharge costs on deliveries and shipped goods just like everyone else is.

[AikiDale]

Dumb Bunny needs help.

If we have 130,000 troops in theater and, as I seem to remember from somewhere there are 10 support troops for each combat soldier, there should be about 13,000 men and women firing one billion rounds a month. That works out to 76,923 rounds down range per shooter per month. Assuming an 8 hour shooting day and a 30 day month that works out to one shot roughly every 11 seconds. With an 11 second split shouldn't there be more A hits?

Am I missing something here?

[rubberneck]

Dumb Bunny needs help.

If we have 130,000 troops in theater and, as I seem to remember from somewhere there are 10 support troops for each combat soldier, there should be about 13,000 men and women firing one billion rounds a month. That works out to 76,923 rounds down range per shooter per month. Assuming an 8 hour shooting day and a 30 day month that works out to one shot roughly every 11 seconds. With an 11 second split shouldn't there be more A hits?

Am I missing something here?

You are missing a couple of things. The first is that it isn't just 13,000 men and women shooting in Iraq or Afghanistan. Our troops world wide use ammo in training every day, and even support units shoot from time to time. Those not in Iraq and Afghanistan are either in some phase of pre-deployment training or deployed elsewhere at any given time.

The second thing is that the ammo produced by our government isn't being used just by our troops. It is sold to allies or given away. Keep in mind that we have troops actively engaged in combat operations in places other than Iraq and Afghanistan. We have soldiers in places like the PI, Colombia and the Horn of Africa actively waging counter insurgency operations.

The billion round figure wasn't pulled out of thin air. It is a number used by the Pentagon.

Edited May 29, 2008 by rubberneck

[Nik Habicht]

Dumb Bunny needs help.

If we have 130,000 troops in theater and, as I seem to remember from somewhere there are 10 support troops for each combat soldier, there should be about 13,000 men and women firing one billion rounds a month. That works out to 76,923 rounds down range per shooter per month. Assuming an 8 hour shooting day and a 30 day month that works out to one shot roughly every 11 seconds. With an 11 second split shouldn't there be more A hits?

Am I missing something here?

I'm guessing that SAW consumption would drive up the round count without necessarily driving up Alpha count ---- but I really know nothing about military operations.

Training stateside? Qualifications? Function Testing? Practice/Training overseas? Ammo donation/Sale to Iraqi forces?

[tightloop]

That number is probably a number supplied by the GAO or Govt Accounting Office...not exactly an accurate number to be used when assessing the number of shots fired by OUR forces in only one location....

[Mark K]

You guys are missing the fact that bullet/ammunition companies have figured out what the oil companies have figured out a long time ago..

I assume you mean that you have to make a profit to stay in business? Oil companies make 8-10% profit, I hope the ammo companies do as well.

[dajarrel]

Dumb Bunny needs help.

If we have 130,000 troops in theater and, as I seem to remember from somewhere there are 10 support troops for each combat soldier, there should be about 13,000 men and women firing one billion rounds a month. That works out to 76,923 rounds down range per shooter per month. Assuming an 8 hour shooting day and a 30 day month that works out to one shot roughly every 11 seconds. With an 11 second split shouldn't there be more A hits?

Am I missing something here?

Dale,

I think the word for that is "suppressing fire".

One of the guys who shoots at our range is a C130 gunship pilot who rotates overseas on a periodic basis. He said that other forces on the ground (other than U.S.) always know when the US is around. He says they lay down a suppressing fire like no other entity over there. It would be nice to know that an Alpha hit is made occasionally, but I'm glad that our guys have the suppressing fire so the bad guys will keep their heads down. I've heard that the receiving end of fire from a C130 gunship is pretty exciting

fwiw

dj

[kruger]

I've heard that the receiving end of fire from a C130 gunship is pretty exciting

Only for a very, very brief time.

[AikiDale]

I've heard that the receiving end of fire from a C130 gunship is pretty exciting

dj

I know some folks who would call it "Spookey."

[el pres]

I've heard that the receiving end of fire from a C130 gunship is pretty exciting

Only for a very, very brief time.

I dont think anyone is around to tell you about it !!

[ChuckS]

I once did the PF calculation to see if Spooky makes power factor. We need 165, right? The 105 HE makes ~ 356,633

A friend who has been in that business in the AC-47 says all you have to do is one "demo" then watch everybody hit the dirt every time a slick C-130 flies over

[outerlimits]

now this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080529/ap_on_...y_chief_bullets

maybe the price of 75's & 77's are about to go up as well...

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

I wonder if a bunch of emails to MG about lead prices vs. bullet prices might help?

It would proably help you get put on the pain in the ass customer list that didn't get to buy any more bullets from them.

That might not be so bad. Think of all the money you could save by buying your own cheap lead and casting them yourself.

They have a "pain in the ass customer with cash to spend" ban list?

I do

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

Here are todays price per pound for scrap from the guy I sell mine to

lead $0.28 all forms of lead - no other metals attached

Prices - 1000+lbs

Item Price/lb Description

Bare Bright copper $2.96 stripped wire, must be shiny - no corrosion, no tinning, no oil $3.06

#1 Copper $2.91 copper pipe - clean, no paint, no glue, no solder or fittings - $3.01

#2 copper $2.70 copper pipe - with solder, paint, glue, copper fittings - no brass $2.80

Lite Copper $2.50 Clean copper flashing, paint and skim of tar ok, no chunks of tar $2.60

Lite copper -dirty $1.10 Lite Copper with other material attached - price based on quality $1.20

Bronze $1.60 cast bronze no other metals - if slightly magnetic then as brass $1.70

Brass $1.50 brass, all types, chromed copper/brass - with no steel $1.60

Irony Brass $0.55 brass with die cast or steel. All T&P, zone valves, some regulators $0.55

clean radiators $1.18 copper with aluminum fins - from baseboard and A/C - no steel $1.30

dirty radiators $0.68 car radiators and A/C etc with steel in moderate amounts $0.78

Die cast $0.15 pot metal handles trim etc $0.15

I have about $800 sitting in my yard right now that will be turned into ammo soon

[Sandro]

What the industry needs is a good company with enough production capacity to compete with Montana.

[el pres]

now this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080529/ap_on_...y_chief_bullets

maybe the price of 75's & 77's are about to go up as well...

That debate has been around a while ???

All they have to do is ignore the Hague (which we are not bound to) and get rid of that stupid FMJ... Then get some good varmint hollow points and there you go, stopping power !!

[jhgtyre]

Since you are in TX, look up Carolyn Wonderland...she's rather big down there. She's a TX blues/rock singer with GOBS of talent...she and her band played my wedding in '98 in Cincinnati (personal friend played lead for her)...not the typical wedding band...in fact NOT a wedding band at all...much to the dismay of the in-laws.

I think she lives in Austin now but tours the state frequently. www.carolynwonderland.com

She rocks...

John Hiatt is a good move too.

I wonder if a bunch of emails to MG about lead prices vs. bullet prices might help?

It would proably help you get put on the pain in the ass customer list that didn't get to buy any more bullets from them.

That might not be so bad. Think of all the money you could save by buying your own cheap lead and casting them yourself.

They have a "pain in the ass customer with cash to spend" ban list?

I do

There are definitely times when the rewards vs. risk calculation comes into play. Some customers just are not worth it.

-ld

[Flatland Shooter]

1 in 10. Not even close. I think it was somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 in 250,000. Someone could look it up, but ,if I remember right, it is some ungodly high number.

If you have someone with an RPG trying to knock me out of my treehouse I bet I could go through a quarter million rounds real fast.

Bill

[Jman]

We are paying for the price of metal purchased four to six months ago. Someone will charge less than everybody in a month or two and grab a bigger market share. Others will follow suit. That cycle will continue as it always has. If someone is charging 2% more for a comparable item found elsewhere then buy elsewhere. If they can't compete, game over. Cut throat American commerce. I love it!

Jim M