Best Way to manage Mag changes by counting fired rounds

[swandme]

I am trying to learn the right way the first time .

The best technics and when to change ( Real solid info ) .

and What mag to start with transition to and end with.

Any links to web video would be great .

Thanks

SWandME

Edited May 7, 2008 by swandme

[JakeMartens]

I am trying to learn the right way the first time .

The best technics and when to change ( Real solid info ) .

and What mag to start with transition to and end with.

Any links to web video would be great .

Thanks

SWandME

I plan out my reloads during the walk thru, and pick places to perform the reload while moving from 1 position to the next.

I do the samething when shooting single stack, but keep track of rounds since I am only playing with 8 (9 but don't want to go to

slide lock)

Reloads should be performed while moving not standing still.

[Dave Gundry]

It's easy - just shoot Single Stack and reload whenever you move

On a more serious note - not sure what you mean by what mag to start with - pretty much everybody will grab the mag closest to their hand - unless they accidentally skip past it Or, if you mean what mag to LAMR with, then go for the hardest to reach - aka the one in your pocket

There's some really good vids on youtube of Jake Divita and Travis Tomasie doing some insanely fast reloads. But a good starting point - as soon as you are done calling the last shot, start to reach for the mag as you drop the one in the gun, grab the mag with your index finger pointing up the mag (most will advise to put the tip of your finger on the top round - I don't, and have yet to strip a round out of a mag during a reload), draw the mag, keep the gun in front of your face, tip it so you can see the magwell, guide the new mag in, seat it firmly, and re-establish your grip as you index back onto target.

Check out the Matt Burkett videos or see Todd Jarrett's videos on Google for demonstrations of folks much more qualified than myself.

[Glen517]

It depends what division you are shooting in. You should try and plan your reloads into your stage breakdown. Reload while moving from one position to another (standing reloads waste time). Simple example for production and L-10 32 round stage , 1st position 3 targets move reload, 2nd position 4 targets move reload, 3rd position 4 targets move reload, 4th and 5th position have a total of 5 targets so you finnish up on them with a full gun. Of course limited and open reloads would be in different places in the course of fire. I hope this is what you were looking for.

[Jay870]

I'd be interested to hear some good techniques for programming the reload "spot".

The actual act of reloading has smooth out a lot with dry-fire practice... but I always seem to forget to reload where I had originally planned then suddenly find myself at slide lock.

[sfinney]

For USPSA, try to find a "spot" in the course that is least disruptive to your shooting, preferably somewhere you are moving already between arrays. Changing right after an array, then moving fast to the next spot works well.... of course there are many exceptions/variations.

Don't rule out changing mags early in the course, also - if you have to do one reload during the stage, sometimes doing it after just 2 or 3 targets, dropping a near full mag, and then finishing the run with the second mag works well (if there is better "spot" in the begining instead of later in the course).

As to remembering when to change mags- thats repetition, and rehearsing your plan. Pick your spot, walk through where in the course is the planned mag change point (find a good visual strong cue ie "reload after the barrel", or "reload leaving the port" - try not to pick a spot on the ground, you shouldn't be staring at the ground during the run, it needs to be something in your "shooting" field of view) , airgun that with your hands if you want, as you walk through - actually make the mag change motions, think it through... then as you are on deck, waiting, mentally run through the course several times, burn in the memory of when/where to change the mags.

Also try to plan your changes with a couple extra bullets left in your mag.... for make up shots, etc.... if you plan to shoot every bullet in your mag before a change, you are asking for trouble. (of course, in Single Stack, you pretty much have to!)

It'll come, with practice. And match experience.

[Jeff686]

SWandME,

As others have stated, the mindset changes depending on your division.

What are you shooting?

I never round count while shooting. I do maintain enough situational awareness to know that I'm going to run dry early if I'm shooting too much (steel, or pickup mikes).

Edited May 7, 2008 by Jeff686

[Joe4d]

I go for a spot in the course that has the most movement generally. One caution pic a spot and dont make a habit of "after this target" Pick after I have one step past the target. Lets say you start of on 6 steel then run forward and engage paper. If your plan is shoot the steel drop mag runforward reloading engage paper. If you reherse in your mind ding ding ding ding ding ding drop mag run if you miss the last steel your finger will probably drop the mag before you realize it.

[kevin c]

Something that was pointed out to me: You really don't want to reload on the move, but just as you start to, preferable before landing the first step out of the last shooting position.

I don't know about you, but when I move there's always at least a little bounce with each step, magnified for anything heavy you're holding in the hands (like a full mag or a gun, maybe? ) and worse the faster I'm going. That makes for a much more problematic reload.

I'm still learning how to do it.

[MichiganShootist]

Matt Burkett has a great line on one of his videos... It goes something like......

"Don't allow your reloading to interfere with your shooting. The goal is to maximize the percentage of time during the stage when you are shooting."

I try to remember that and plan my reloads for points in the stage that I can't be shooting.

[Phil Dunlop]

I would look to reload during any movement within the stage, but be aware, particularly if there is steel within an aray, of how many spare rounds you have before the anticipated reload, that way you are counting down, from maybe four to one rather than up to capacity

P.D.

[Resjudicata]

I kind of count but not like you are thinking. I shoot Limited Division and sometimes I count makeup shots (but not very often). Let's say my reload point is at 19 rounds (I have 20+1 in the gun) and the last three shots are on steel. I know if I have two make up shots before my reload point I have to rack the slide (the slide doesn't lock back) or more than two make ups means a standing reload. Therefore, I will keep track of those makeup shots. However, the only way to do this effectively is to practice so that this is subconscious. Otherwise, it takes too long.

Also, you can prevent this from happening by reloading earlier as someone mentioned above. However, sometimes the stage just doesn't give a better reload point. Though, if you know you are going to be in that situation you should take a bit more care in preventing misses and make ups anyway.

This is the problem with trying to come up with hard and fast rules on how to do things in stages that are all different.

Chris

[Brazos SC Shooter]

I shoot in Limited, so your milage may vary.

I start by counting rounds and allowing for make up shots in my count. For example, if there are 2 steel targets in an array I might count it as 3 shots. If there are 5 steel targets I might count it as 7 shots. Then I look to see where this count dictates the reload would have to occur within the progression of the stage. If it fits, great, if it doesn't then I look for non-shooting time in the stage before that to possibly adjust.

I have also been know to plan a stage that takes me way close to capacity in my round count but I leave myself an alternative. I will know in my stage plan, if I shoot clean to point X then I will reload after Y otherwise I will reload at Z.

Most of the time the stage will have a natural reload spot before shooting 19- 21 rounds and it isn't a problem for me.

[G-ManBart]

I am trying to learn the right way the first time .

The best technics and when to change ( Real solid info ) .

and What mag to start with transition to and end with.

Any links to web video would be great .

Thanks

SWandME

Pick a spot in the stage where you can reload while moving and doesn't get you too close to running the gun dry. When you do the walk through make the movements just like you're doing a reload....I even say to myself (quietly) "reload" and make the movements.

This is a video of me at the Double Tap, stage 8. I take 16 shots, reload and then take 15 shots. I could have shot the third array before reloading, but it wouldn't have made sense as that was only a step or two to get to the fourth array....a reload there would have slowed me down. I did take one extra shot on the first target as I got the first shot off a bit quicker than I'd planned....it was an unecessary insurance shot, but didn't really hurt me. That run was 10th in Open...not sure what it was overall, but it was reasonably solid.

Second video is stage 3 at DTC. I reloaded after the 12th shot, going to a big stick. I then took 21 shots (one was a makeup on a hard cover target...can't remember if it was really necessary, but again, didn't hurt much. In this case I could have reloaded after the second array, but the 2nd, 3rd and 4th arrays required very little movement. It was much easier to make a deliberate reload to the big stick while going all the way around the wall and not have to worry about reloading after that. This was 13th in Open...not sure overall, but a decent run....had a little trouble getting the darned stick in the tube!

[swandme]

Thanks for the info

I looked at the Video ( nice and smooth )

how do you learn to shoot and walk @ the same time

THANKS

SWandME

[G-ManBart]

Thanks for the info

I looked at the Video ( nice and smooth )

how do you learn to shoot and walk @ the same time

THANKS

SWandME

Well, those weren't the greatest runs, but they weren't bad and figured they sorta showed what you were asking about.

Shooting while moving just takes time and practice, but you can work on it at home with dry fire. All you need is some small targets (most anything will do...even cut down paper plates). Put them up on a door or wall and practice walking up to and away from them while doing trigger presses and keep the front sight/dot on the target. Lower your center of gravity a little bit, try different stride lengths and you'll see what works and what doesn't. To take it to another level, find a spot where you can come around a corner or through a door and pick up the front sight on the target as soon as you can. You can also work on dry firing as you're moving sideways. A great one is to use a couple of targets, move up as you dry fire on one, transition to another target and then to a third which you'll dry fire at while moving out of that area...all are core skills for shooting as soon as you get there and leaving as the last shot is breaking. Each one will save you a half second or more...it all adds up

[pjb45]

If you ever get to see Chris Tilley, you will see he really bends his knees. He stays pretty low and uses his legs as shock absorbers, to keep his upper body quiet. If you ski, it is a similar situation.

Additionally, you might try the heel to toe walking to help smooth out the ride. When I was working in CA I had a 5 mile route that I would walk. About a 1.5 miles into it, there was big, long hill. This is where I did the Groucho Marx walk, really bent the knees. It was about 3/4 of a mile long. On the return trip I would do the same thing.

I would try different strides, sometimes longer and slower then shorter and faster. I noticed that the shorter the stride the less the bounce. I would also hold my hands up in front and use my knuckles to sight down on objects in the distance.

A dry fire drill you might also work with is to set up several targets, draw, on the last target, press the trigger, then do your mag release, have the mag drop, turn and move to a different spot. If it is a short distance, bring the gun closer to your face, and start your reload. With the gun high, it is easy to move from looking the mag into the well to looking for the front sight. Some shooters keep the gun in close when they shoot, others will start to extend their arms. Do it the way you normally do it. If you mentally programmed the stage right, your body should be oriented towards your next shooting array.

I like Steve Anderson's approach to his dry fire drills. They are building blocks for shooting a stage, you learn to execute a couple of techniques correctly in dry firing. Mike Seeklander call this building a program in you subconcious mind that runs when you are shooting a stage. Program it correctly and you will execute correctly during a match.

[Matt Griffin]

Isn't the rule no more than 9 shots visible from any position? Anyway, if you go through the stage as a 10-rounder, you should be able to locate places where reloads make sense. Also, you need to account for steel misses and possible makeups on long targets. My general rule is to approach any steel with one extra round, a star with two, or long US poppers with one round each. I usually don't need all of the extra shots, but the ultimate goal is to avoid the standing reload.

H.

[Flexmoney]

Isn't the rule no more than 9 shots visible from any position?

Not exactly. First, we are back to our 8 rounds with the new rule book. But, you can have more than 8 shots visible, you just can't have a position that requires more than 8 shots.

I know that wasn't your point...but I thought I'd put that out there. Your point is valid, course design often allows for built-in reloading points. (maybe it shouldn't, but it often does)

[Genghis]

I'm sure I'm the slacker in this bunch, but I have one suggestion. When I plan reloads on a stage where I might be forced to do an extra reload because of making up misses (like the Star or steel), I will often program myself, By way of example, if there is a stage that will leave me with two rounds in the gun if I don't have any extra shots on the Star, then I might program myself, ""If I miss more than twice, then reload IMMEDIATELY after the Star." That lets me keep any planned reloads and be ready to make one adjustment if necessary.