If Clear, Hammer down, Holster command in USPSA

[Albert]

I just shot a classifier match about a month ago and had a great time.

One thing that's been on my mind and am curious if it's been discussed here or not is in regards to the final few range commands during a USPSA match.

I was being run by an R.O. who after the "If you are finished, Unload and show Clear" command and after I opened the cylinder on my S&W 625 unloaded the moonclip full of empty cases and showed 6 empty chambers, closed the cylinder and received the command "If Clear, Hammer down, Holster" I then closed the cylinder and proceeded to holster as per the command. The R.O. must have thought I didn't hear the command correctly and then repeated in a much loader voice and more stern tone "If Clear, HAMMER DOWN, Holster". I then turned my head and said so he could clearly read my lips that I was then going to place the hammer down on the other 5 chambers including the 1 to insure that all 6 were clear if that was what he is looking for.

I was a little put off, but luckily there was a regular revolver shooter who was shooting open that day who tried to clarify that there is nothing in the rule book about this situation, but common sense suggests that the 6 chambers are clear after you have removed the moonclip with the empties and closed the cylinder.

Anyone else had this happen or was it just me?

[underlug]

I just shot a classifier match about a month ago and had a great time.

One thing that's been on my mind and am curious if it's been discussed here or not is in regards to the final few range commands during a USPSA match.

I was being run by an R.O. who after the "If you are finished, Unload and show Clear" command and after I opened the cylinder on my S&W 625 unloaded the moonclip full of empty cases and showed 6 empty chambers, closed the cylinder and received the command "If Clear, Hammer down, Holster" I then closed the cylinder and proceeded to holster as per the command. The R.O. must have thought I didn't hear the command correctly and then repeated in a much loader voice and more stern tone "If Clear, HAMMER DOWN, Holster". I then turned my head and said so he could clearly read my lips that I was then going to place the hammer down on the other 5 chambers including the 1 to insure that all 6 were clear if that was what he is looking for.

I was a little put off, but luckily there was a regular revolver shooter who was shooting open that day who tried to clarify that there is nothing in the rule book about this situation, but common sense suggests that the 6 chambers are clear after you have removed the moonclip with the empties and closed the cylinder.

Anyone else had this happen or was it just me?

There are some people that are hostile to revolvers. There are some ROs that are idiots. It happens. Just smile and educate them. You will find most people in the Northwest are happy to have you there. There is a real tradition of revolver shooting in the Seattle area. Fall used to be an unofficial revolver season, so, a lot of your more "mature" shooters have revolver experience. You will find that an RO like you experienced is, by far, the rarity around Seattle.

ROs unfamiliar with revolver get a start sometimes by the unusual movement of the gun during reloads.I have been warned in the past about muzzle position that I thought was unwarranted, but, never have been requested to even pull the trigger on the closed cylinder since the hammer is already down much less being expected to pull it 6 times.

Edited May 6, 2008 by underlug

[kgunz11]

I then turned my head and said so he could clearly read my lips that I was then going to place the hammer down on the other 5 chambers including the 1 to insure that all 6 were clear if that was what he is looking for.

That's freakin' hilarious!!! :roflol:

[open17]

It is addressed in the rulebook. Rule 8.3.7.2 "Revolvers---close the empty cylinder(without

touching the hammer,if any)."

Sounds like you got a RO who was A. Ignorant of the rules, and B. A bit of an ass.

You can cure A by education.

Bill

[Albert]

Thanks Underlug and Bill (open17). I first thought I was getting a little bit of attitude, but luckily we had a very informed, experienced and mature revolver shooter in our squad that balanced things out by dropping his knowledge and even the uneducated RO looked to him for advice on this issue.

My guess is that the RO had not yet read the rule book and that rule.

As I mentioned the experienced revolver shooter was very helpful and made shooting the revolver that day even more fun with all the advice he was offering.

There is a lot of satisfaction from shooting the wheel gun even if I didn't do particularly well other than to just get classified.

[Bill Nesbitt]

I just grin and click the trigger a couple of times.

[AikiDale]

Be kind to your RO. He is a volunteer after all. And until the new rule book which just took effect he was correct in asking you to pull the trigger after seeing an empty cylinder, just like after seeing an empty chamber with no magazine in the semi-auto. Hardly an anti-revolver sentiment, just an attempt to keep the rules and commands consistent. Not all RO's have been sent to re-education camp yet.

[slflr]

Another rule of particular interest to revolver shooters is 10.5.9. in reference to unsafe gun handling. "Failure to keep the finger outside the trigger guard during loading, reloading, or unloading." Exception......"while initially loading a revolver with a spurless hammer." In other words, you may use the trigger on your revolver the stage the cylinder if your hammer is bobbed after you have loaded the gun in response to the "make ready" command.

[slflr]

The range commands for all hand guns are the same. The responses to those commands are slightly different. It is to the shooters definite advantage to know the rule book.

[sargenv]

I have a spurless (bobbed) hammer on both my competition revolvers and I always roll the cylinder to make sure that my firs tmoon clip is not bent and it revolves freely. I've never really had anyone get too nervous about me doing so once they saw what I was doing. It's not any different really than those guys checking the chamber of their guns 3 times to make sure it's still there I guess it's a little different since I'm putting my finger on the trigger... but well.. if I let a round go.. I'm done

[Nik Habicht]

There are some people that are hostile to revolvers. There are some ROs that are idiots.

And then there's really smart ROs and CROs who would buy a revolver --- as soon as Glock gets into the wheelgun business...... :devil:

Seriously --- I had to look it up to discover this particular rule change. But then I've never shot a revolver in USPSA......

[vrmn1]

I have been ask to pull the trigger once after I had clearly shown the RO the empty cylinder.

Silly but it does happen.

[Carmoney]

....luckily we had a very informed, experienced and mature revolver shooter in our squad....

Sounds highly suspicious to me.

[underlug]

....luckily we had a very informed, experienced and mature revolver shooter in our squad....

Sounds highly suspicious to me.

I might believe two out of the three

[underlug]

Thanks Underlug and Bill (open17). I first thought I was getting a little bit of attitude, but luckily we had a very informed, experienced and mature revolver shooter in our squad that balanced things out by dropping his knowledge and even the uneducated RO looked to him for advice on this issue.

My guess is that the RO had not yet read the rule book and that rule.

As I mentioned the experienced revolver shooter was very helpful and made shooting the revolver that day even more fun with all the advice he was offering.

There is a lot of satisfaction from shooting the wheel gun even if I didn't do particularly well other than to just get classified.

Satisfaction is as good a summation as I have heard. The first time anybody tries it results in a big grin on the shooter's face no matter how one scores.

There is flat out more to do and think about. The trigger is more difficult and the reloads more numerous and require more technique. It is a more sophisticated game. It also requires, and you will find most revolver shooter's have, a serious sense of humor

[DirtDiver]

AFTER JUST COMPLETING MY RO CLASS, GIVEN BY RAY HIRST RMI/NROI INSTRUCTOR, THIS EXACT ITEM WAS DISCUSSED IN CLASS AS WE HAD A COUPLE OF REVOLVER SHOOTERS. THE COMMAND "IF CLEAR, HAMMER DOWN, HOLSTER" IS GIVEN IT THEN BECOMES THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE SHOOTER TO INSURE THAT THE GUN IS SAFE. THE REVOLVER SHOOTERS QUESTIONED THE STATEMENT FROM RAY HIRST THAT THE HAMMER MUST DROP BY PULLING THE TRIGGER AND HEARING THE CLICK.....SINCE THE HAMMER IS ALREADY DOWN ON A REVOLVER..IE RULE 8.3.7.2. THEY HAD THE SAME REACTION.....DO I NEED TO PULL THE TRIGGER FIVE MORE TIMES??????!!

IT WAS IMPRESSED ON ME, BY RAY HIRST, THAT THE NEW CHANGES TO THE RANGE COMMANDS SHOULD NOT BE MODIFIED IN ANY MANNER. WE EVEN QUESTIONED THE "MAKE READY" CHANGE FROM "LOAD AND MAKE READY" AS TO THIS SHORTENED COMMAND. THE RESPONSE IS THAT THE SHOOTER IS RESPONSIBLE TO BE PREPAIRED TO SHOOT....AND NOT EVERY STAGE MAY REQUIRE LOADING THE GUN.

[Carmoney]

The book is perfectly clear on the unload and show clear process for revolvers, and it does not involve clicking the gun (see Rule 8.3.7.2).

You must have misunderstood what you were being told. Ray Hirst regularly ROs major matches in my part of the country. I have shot revolvers at 10 or 12 major matches in which Ray was serving as an RO, including several Nationals with entire revolver squads going through together, and he has certainly never asked any of us to pull the triggers on our revolvers before reholstering. He knows the rules.

Edited May 6, 2008 by Carmoney

[JThompson]

Sorry DirtDiver, but that's just not true. The book is perfectly clear on the unload and show clear process for revolvers, and it does not involve clicking the gun (see Rule 8.3.7.2).

You must have misunderstood what you were being told. Ray Hirst regularly ROs major matches in my part of the country. I have shot revolvers at 10 or 12 major matches in which Ray was serving as an RO, including several Nationals with entire revolver squads going through together, and he has certainly never asked any of us to pull the triggers on our revolvers before reholstering. He knows the rules.

+1 Ray knows his shit... you must have misheard or not understood.

PS TAKE OFF THE CAP LOCK PLEASE.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

They ROs I like are the ones that say "If finished, unload and show clear, if clear (PREGNANT PAUSE) do whatever you guys do"

Edited May 6, 2008 by Round_Gun_Shooter

[JThompson]

8.3.7

“If Clear, Hammer Down, Holster” – After issuance of this command,

the competitor is prohibited from firing (see Rule 10.4.3). While continuing

to point the handgun safely downrange, the competitor must

perform a final safety check of the handgun as follows:

8.3.7.1

Self-loaders – release the slide and pull the trigger (without

touching the hammer or decocker, if any).

32 • USPSA Handgun Rules, January 2008 Edition

8.3.7.2

Revolvers – close the empty cylinder (without touching the

hammer, if any).

8.3.7.3 If the gun proves to be clear, the competitor must holster his

handgun.

Edited May 6, 2008 by JThompson

[boz1911]

They ROs I like are the ones that say "If finished, unload and show clear, if clear (PREGNANT PAUSE) do whatever you guys do"

That describes it well......

[Vulture]

I think what DirtDriver was trying to say is that the command, "if clear ,hammer down , holster." is always the same even though the RO should know that the action the shooter takes is different with a revolver.

[underlug]

I think what DirtDriver was trying to say is that the command, "if clear ,hammer down , holster." is always the same even though the RO should know that the action the shooter takes is different with a revolver.

I like, "show clear, holster, return to mother ship"

[pskys2]

Being a Revo Competitor for a bit, I've heard and seen both. If asked I'll do it without a problem, heck sometimes I do it on instinct and other times I don't. Remember your a tough, wily Revoleer and if asked it won't freak you out to drop the hammer on an empty chamber/charge hole. Just smile as you catch your breath from the smoking run you just pulled.

Try dropping an Open competitors slide on an empty chamber, if you want some grumbling!

Being an RO, I always repeat the words but never actually require a snap on a Revolver, unless it's Mike and well he should follow the Letter of the Law to the letter!

[Keith]

I still occasionally do it out of habit. And many times the RO will remind me that I don't have to drop the hammer anymore.