Do You Always See the Dot?

[dajarrel]

Imagine the starting position of "palms on door" At the start signal you open the door and engage a series of targets at 10-12 yards.

Is your dot on the first target, first shot, every time or do you occasionally index and shoot while still looking for the dot?

I'm sure this is a rookie problem with folks like me who have only been shooting open for a few months, but I'm just curious how others handle it.

thanks

dj

[JThompson]

Imagine the starting position of "palms on door" At the start signal you open the door and engage a series of targets at 10-12 yards.

Is your dot on the first target, first shot, every time or do you occasionally index and shoot while still looking for the dot?

I'm sure this is a rookie problem with folks like me who have only been shooting open for a few months, but I'm just curious how others handle it.

thanks

dj

I'll answer thusly... I've been known to shoot a C on the first shot.

[AlamoShooter]

DJ I checked NO , as no BUT. 10 to 12 yards seams to be a 'midrange' shot now with a 20 -25 yard shot being the longest in a match.

The reason I check no was that sometimes I -Blink- on the close targets and I can not call the shot. At this last DT match I only shot two extra shots at the paper targets. The thing that is slowing me down is the trigger , I see the shot ready and the gun should have fired but my trigger finger is slower than what my eyes call as a good shot.

So even a slow shooter can have fast eyes (.IF.) you train them

I did shot several extra shots on the steel

[Ron Ankeny]

I see the dot. I don't see the point (no pun intended) of shooting an open blaster by Braille, especially at 10-12 yards. It will be interesting to hear from Jake on this one.

[caspian guy]

At 1-3 yards I may or may not see the dot. Beyond there I try to always see the dot.

I find that if I present the gun correctly during the draw the dot is right there, on close shots I might not be paying that much attention to it but it is there.

Peter Adams

FY-39604

[XRe]

5 yards or closer, I may not need to pick up the dot to fire and call an accurate shot, depending on the targets. But, 10-12 yards needs it, for sure. I'm there every time, or I'm pulling makeups ...

[L9X25]

5 yards or closer, I may not need to pick up the dot to fire and call an accurate shot, depending on the targets. But, 10-12 yards needs it, for sure. I'm there every time, or I'm pulling makeups ...

+1

Inside of 5 yards it is hard not to notice the huge holes appearing on the targets and you can get away without seeing the dot. Beyond that distance you are wasting time looking for holes unless you are willing to drop a lot of points or even a miss. YMMV

[Flexmoney]

... and shoot while still looking for the dot?

I'm sure this is a rookie problem...

Sounds like a presentation problem.

[AlamoShooter]

... and shoot while still looking for the dot?

I'm sure this is a rookie problem...

Sounds like a presentation problem.

Hey ...You don't know Dot. We love Dot --Don't be poaching in the dot thread

_{OK I will add that FlexY is most likely correct}

Edited April 3, 2008 by AlamoShooter

[nm3gnr]

I am new to open. I am having trouble on quick starts with very close targets 3-5 feet. I just index off the Cmore. Anything else I can see the dot on the taget just fine.

[HSMITH]

Even at 2 -5 yards I am faster across a couple targets by calling shots off the dot than I am calling bullet holes in the targets. No dot = no bang.

[HSMITH]

Even at 2 -5 yards I am faster across a couple targets by calling shots off the dot than I am calling bullet holes in the targets. No dot = no bang.

[GentlemanJim]

Only look for the dot if you intend to hit the target

I find myself tripping a round off with out seeing the dot from time to time...can you say MIKE ...I knew you could

On super close stuff ...As just happen dot or not...but I think it is a bad habit to get into.

My presentation sucks...and I waste time finding the dot sometimes

Jim

[dajarrel]

... and shoot while still looking for the dot?

I'm sure this is a rookie problem...

Sounds like a presentation problem.

I can't disagree at all. One of the issues I work with is that I am left eye dominant and right handed. Dry fire has improved the presentation, but I still have that issue of waving the gun around and making the RO anxious on the first shot sometimes.

dj

[Turtle]

I agree with Dave ....and Flex. Even though the dot is almost always there, if for some reason it wasn't (i.e. bad presentation from an awkward start position ) and the target was in the close range of 5-7 yards, I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger and pick up the dot during recoil.

[JThompson]

I agree with Dave ....and Flex. Even though the dot is almost always there, if for some reason it wasn't (i.e. bad presentation from an awkward start position ) and the target was in the close range of 5-7 yards, I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger and pick up the dot during recoil.

I'm with the Turtle here. Every once in a while I get a less than ideal grip and, for me, that grip naturaly fixes itself in recoil. I found that if it's not there I can bang one and it is. Strange, but if I have to hunt or shoot a split of .17, I'll take extra .17.

I always try and see the dot, but the question was "EVER."

For the guy shooting close targets: I look over the gun so the sight isn't even in my vision. I look where I want it and keep the c-more out of my sightline. I don't fully extend either. I'm not saying do this; it's just what i do.

Edited April 3, 2008 by JThompson

[BritinUSA]

Not sure how to answer this; I remain convinced that there are times when I know I don't consciously see the dot but the bullet hits exactly where I expected it to which either means I was lucky or I am seeing it unconsciously and it's happening so fast that I can't remember it.

[38superman]

This is a tricky one.

I almost always see the dot.

However on really close targets I may not.

Consider the Classifier "Can you Count".

Those targets are almost close enough to touch with the comp.

I'm not going to worry about the dot at that range.

Almost always is not always so I voted no.

Tony

[Jake Di Vita]

The cure for that is dry fire, dry fire, dry fire.

[AlamoShooter]

... and shoot while still looking for the dot?

I'm sure this is a rookie problem...

Sounds like a presentation problem.

I can't disagree at all. One of the issues I work with is that I am left eye dominant and right handed. Dry fire has improved the presentation, but I still have that issue of waving the gun around and making the RO anxious on the first shot sometimes.

dj

DJ I am left eye right hand too, I am not tooo slow on the first shot though. = the key is head movement. Get your head in place and keep it calm and Present the gun to the eye.

When you make ready = set your head in place and holster the gun { With Out moving your head} - put your hands in the start position and draw the gun to your eye and the target. Use your off eye too when you get the hang of it.

Do the closed eye drill too = point the gun in dry fire close your eyes - open them and see if the gun is still pointed correct. If not practice from the the feet up to make it rite.

Oh & =Moving through doors and such keep from (Ducking) your head to the gun = Keep the head level, like a dancer. and in don't bob you head up and down.

Edited April 3, 2008 by AlamoShooter

[XRe]

Even at 2 -5 yards I am faster across a couple targets by calling shots off the dot than I am calling bullet holes in the targets. No dot = no bang.

There is a faster answer. If anyone on here is calling their shots by watching holes appear in paper, they're wasting time. Stop it. You can be fast (possibly faster) and just as accurate in the 0 to 3-ish yard range without needing to pick up the dot, and sometimes out to 5 depending on the situation.... if you've read Brian's book, you know the presentation I'm talking about is Type II - you aim and call shots with a target focus based on the position of the gun in your line of sight.

I wouldn't recommend Type I for a match situation - always be looking for something definitive to call the shot.

Looking for bullet holes on the target is far slower than knowing where the holes are as the gun goes off - you can call a shot faster than a bullet can travel the 3 feet into the target if you're diligent about it.

[racerba]

Who's Dot?

[G-ManBart]

Even at 2 -5 yards I am faster across a couple targets by calling shots off the dot than I am calling bullet holes in the targets. No dot = no bang.

There is a faster answer. If anyone on here is calling their shots by watching holes appear in paper, they're wasting time. Stop it. You can be fast (possibly faster) and just as accurate in the 0 to 3-ish yard range without needing to pick up the dot, and sometimes out to 5 depending on the situation.... if you've read Brian's book, you know the presentation I'm talking about is Type II - you aim and call shots with a target focus based on the position of the gun in your line of sight.

I wouldn't recommend Type I for a match situation - always be looking for something definitive to call the shot.

Looking for bullet holes on the target is far slower than knowing where the holes are as the gun goes off - you can call a shot faster than a bullet can travel the 3 feet into the target if you're diligent about it.

+1

For those that shot the DTC this past week, stage 12 (the cave) was a perfect example. Gun on the table and two targets maybe 3ft away. I didn't even try to pick up the dot....pick up the gun, index on the targets and smoke them!

[Chris iliff]

This is a tricky one.

I almost always see the dot.

However on really close targets I may not.

Consider the Classifier "Can you Count".

Those targets are almost close enough to touch with the comp.

I'm not going to worry about the dot at that range.

Almost always is not always so I voted no.

Tony

I just ran "Can You Count" and I was lamenting to a buddy about my 9 ish total time. I thought my reloads were slow. He commented that my reloads looked smooth, but thought I took a lot of time finding the dot from draw. I guess on targets this close just point and shoot? Jake, could I get some info about this from you? I'm a "C" class and I did get all "A's" on it, so that's good.

[AlamoShooter]

Even at 2 -5 yards I am faster across a couple targets by calling shots off the dot than I am calling bullet holes in the targets. No dot = no bang.

There is a faster answer. If anyone on here is calling their shots by watching holes appear in paper, they're wasting time. Stop it. You can be fast (possibly faster) and just as accurate in the 0 to 3-ish yard range without needing to pick up the dot, and sometimes out to 5 depending on the situation.... if you've read Brian's book, you know the presentation I'm talking about is Type II - you aim and call shots with a target focus based on the position of the gun in your line of sight.

I wouldn't recommend Type I for a match situation - always be looking for something definitive to call the shot.

Looking for bullet holes on the target is far slower than knowing where the holes are as the gun goes off - you can call a shot faster than a bullet can travel the 3 feet into the target if you're diligent about it.

+1

For those that shot the DTC this past week, stage 12 (the cave) was a perfect example. Gun on the table and two targets maybe 3ft away. I didn't even try to pick up the dot....pick up the gun, index on the targets and smoke them!

DaAAng! Not olny did I AIM at each target I Aimed three times for two shots on each ...Even the ones at the table.

I moved as fast as the IPSC Jihad guy on You Tube. .... But with out the dress and head rag

Edited April 4, 2008 by AlamoShooter