Chronograph Service ?

[CSEMARTIN]

Is there anyone out there that will chrono your ammo using good equipment with a proper setup for a small fee?

It would be nice to send someone a few rounds, $5 bucks, an e-mail address and wait for the results.

[Dan Sierpina]

Is there anyone out there that will chrono your ammo using good equipment with a proper setup for a small fee?

It would be nice to send someone a few rounds, $5 bucks, an e-mail address and wait for the results.

For it to be accurate....you have to send your gun too. Chronographs are no longer as expensive as years ago.

[ipscbob]

I would be willing to do it for a reasonable fee. Unfortunately, $5.00 is NOT a reasonable fee for a few hours of my time I also suspect that the info you get will not be very accurate since velocity varies quite a bit in different guns.

Edited January 30, 2008 by ipscbob

[MichiganShootist]

Chris,

The posters are right. My Kimber and my Trophy Match 1911s (guns you know well) will vary by as much as 10% (depending on the temperature) .... with the same load

[kevin c]

You'll have ammo, then, that has a PF as determined in somebody else's gun with a different bbl (varying length/rifling), at different altitude/temp/humidity from your own home conditions. That number may be very precise, but very much different from what you'd get locally. And, actually, what matters is not just what happens locally, but also at the chrono stations of the major matches that you'll be going to. To best control the PF in the last case, you need to be able to QC your ammo well, and that may include rechrono'ing each new batch of bullets/primers/powder. This is more and more important the closer you hug the PF floor.

Most folks chrono their own. Its like money - no matter what they promise or what you pay them, nobody is gonna care more about your own money than you, because what happens to it, the money or the ammo, affects you more than them.

[RePete]

Is there anyone out there that will chrono your ammo using good equipment with a proper setup for a small fee?

It would be nice to send someone a few rounds, $5 bucks, an e-mail address and wait for the results.

For it to be accurate....you have to send your gun too. Chronographs are no longer as expensive as years ago.

I agree with Dan.

Check out the pricing of the Shooting Chrony. They are good enough for what you want.

[Flatland Shooter]

Check out the pricing of the Shooting Chrony. They are good enough for what you want.

I picked up a Chrony Beta Master model from Midway a week ago. It may still be on sale for $110.

Seems to work really well. It replaces a 23 year old PACT Mk lll that finally gave up the ghost. The Chrony is really easy to set up and use.

Bill

[DougCarden]

Chris, I am joining the Milan range. Once I get it done you can meet me over there with your gear and ammo and use my chrono for whatever you need.

PM me for my Cell number, I am about 50 miles from the QC.......

See ya,

DougC

[CSEMARTIN]

Thanks everyone for your input. And thank you Doug for your offer to help chrono my ammo.

Those of you that know me will probably tell those of you that don't know me that I'm extremely anal retentive about my reloading practices. I do have a chronograph. In fact, I use it quite frequently.

The reason I posted this thread is because I'm looking for something official. Something you'd see at a major match. A high quality chronograph inside a box with controlled lighting, etc...

I realize there are multiple variables affecting velocity of our bullets- temperature, brand of power, consistency of charge, the gun being fired, cleanliness of the barrel, etc.

The problem I have is the freezing cold here in Iowa. While I'm perfectly willing to drop $200 bucks on a nice chrono, I'm not willing to build a box and set up lighting inside that box, and take it the FREEZING COLD range close to my house every time I want to test a load.

I'll bet a lot of you do what I do. Take your cheap chrono to the range, set it up on a table and hope for the best..... That's what I do. And I've started to wonder if the variance I'm seeing can be blamed on the weather, my reloading practices, etc. or if the variance I'm seeing should be blamed on my chrono practices. I've noticed a variance in velocity from one match to another at the chrono stage while none of the variables has changed except the chrono.

I have been trying to come up with the best method to consistently drop the same powder charge. I have also been working on consistent OAL and crimp. So far, getting a consistent OAL has proven fairly easy as well as the crimp. However, my biggest probelm has been a consistent powder charge. Perhaps it is the powder I'm using, but I like it so I'm sticking with it.

I noticed a significant variance using the stock Dillon powder measure so I bought a $250+ dollar Redding Competition Powder Measure. After some extensive testing I came to the conslusion that while it is much slower, it isn't any better than the stock Dillon Powder Measure. If you don't believe me, it's for sale. Buy it and prove it to yourself!

I did some searching on this forum and found a thread by Tom Freeman about polishing the powder measure. I took the powder measure apart and started polishing. I polished parts that don't even have a part number on Dillon's website. I drilled a hole to access a part that probably wasn't meant to be removed. I got f#$%cking crazy with this powder measure. I also installed the uniquetek micrometer and powder baffle (which I also polished). I also installed the uniquetek toolhead locking kit (sorry I don't know the official name of this item).

When all was said and done, I discovered that my reloads are all within 3 fps of each other. The only problem is they don't make power factor. And the chrono I was using the day I checked velocity wasn't my chrono, but it was a nice CED chrono set up indoors. But the chrono kept givng error messages. Since this is a load I've used for 3 years, and it's always made power factor, and since it registered multiple error messages, I'm thinking that I shouldn't trust this data..... Having the velocities come in within 3 fps of each other is encouraging, but not making power factor is rather unsettling.

The whole purpose of this thead was to see if there is anyone out there that will chrono your ammo using good equipment with controlled lighting. At least for me it would be some piece of mind.

[Hoofy]

Just before Nationals last year, we ran a chrono stage at the Mile Hi match. Double CED, infrared, in a box, nice setup.

It read inside of 2% of what those at Nationals saw, based on my memory. Conventional wisdom in these parts

(except Henning) is to beat the velocity needed by 2-3% to allow for the variance between machines. Unless you have a suspect chrono, you should trust what you read and allow 2-3%. ES's like that don't just happen, I'd kill for single digits.

Edited February 1, 2008 by Hoofy

[tpcdvc]

Don't sweat this stuff. Buy a CED don't worry about the box and light set up. Go out on a sunny day and get your loads between 170 and 174 and then shoot. Don't try to tweak your load to get close to 165. Keep it above 170 and check it every time you switch powder lots. Going to a new keg will sometimes change your PF slightly. Also, Powder is not nearly as temperature sensitive as in years past and even then they were trying to keep the rounds cool in a cooler before they would chrono them. If it is very cold like you say. Stick the rounds in your pocket and put them in the magazine just before you fire.

[ipscbob]

TPCs advice is sound. As long as you keep your loads above 170 pf you should be just fine. I load 172pf+ for open and have never come close to not making major. I have owned 2 shooting chronys over the space of 6 years or so and neither was very consistent. Switched to a CED last year and it has been VERY consistent over differing lighting conditions. Don't try to save money on a chronograph.

Edited February 1, 2008 by ipscbob

[AlamoShooter]

OK you mentioned "Controlled Lighting" several times And I think I can help with your "Butt thinking hangup" I think out my butt sometimes too.

All Chronographs that {I know of} are nothing more that a [Light meter] at the the start and end = the first screen picks up the Shadow of the bullet flying over and starts the clock the second screen pick up the Shadow leaving and stops the clock. a crono in a box just keeps dust and the muz blast from confusing the first screen.

our regular cronos with out a box are every bit the same as a boxed crono with "Controlled Lighting" But our regular ones use the Shadow the sun cast. ==At a match they cant be moving the Crono around tracking the sun in the morning and at noon and late in the day. = so they use the "controlled Lighting"

If you wanted to set the crono up closer to your shooting table you could just put a target and in front of the crono and cut a small hole to shoot through so that the muz blast would not set off the first screen.

The screen does not care what light it gets , Bright or low = just as long as it throws a shadow.

The Shadow Knows

the pick up in the crono is just like the meter in a camera, a real cheep one will not pick up small light changes. a real good one will pick up small changes. A cheep one will be just as good on a brite day.

But I could be overly Anal

[LPatterson]

A couple of tips I have read on the forum that might help.

1. Get an aquarium air pump and tiewrap to the powder measure chamber - it is supposed to vibrate & settle the powder.

2. Extend the distance between the arms on the chronograph, a 4' distance gives less error than a 2' setup.

A search should turn up the exact threads.

[Flexmoney]

My good old Pack Mk-IV chrono reads within a consistent 7-8 fps as a boxed and lighted CED. The CED is the same exact setup that we used for a number of major matches here in Ohio. When I had access to it during match setup once, I put my Pact in-line with it. I'd guess that the reading between my Pact and the CED were as close as it would have been between two CED's.

As for setup.

Our guy found a card-board box that fit the needed dimensions for a chrono box. He then beefed up the box by adding in an internal frame work...made out of 1x2's or target sticks. He spray painted the whole whole thing to help weather proof it a bit. Like most card-board boxes, it would fold pretty flat for storage or transport. He has a little table to go with the setup. He screwed some sticks to the table top to act as a cradle to hold the chrono. And, a few more to hold the box in a consistent manner. All of that would fit in the back of my truck easy enough. It lasted for a good 4 yrs (might still be around).

[ipscbob]

OK you mentioned "Controlled Lighting" several times And I think I can help with your "Butt thinking hangup" I think out my butt sometimes too.

All Chronographs that {I know of} are nothing more that a [Light meter] at the the start and end = the first screen picks up the Shadow of the bullet flying over and starts the clock the second screen pick up the Shadow leaving and stops the clock. a crono in a box just keeps dust and the muz blast from confusing the first screen.

our regular cronos with out a box are every bit the same as a boxed crono with "Controlled Lighting" But our regular ones use the Shadow the sun cast. ==At a match they cant be moving the Crono around tracking the sun in the morning and at noon and late in the day. = so they use the "controlled Lighting"

If you wanted to set the crono up closer to your shooting table you could just put a target and in front of the crono and cut a small hole to shoot through so that the muz blast would not set off the first screen.

The screen does not care what light it gets , Bright or low = just as long as it throws a shadow.

The Shadow Knows

the pick up in the crono is just like the meter in a camera, a real cheep one will not pick up small light changes. a real good one will pick up small changes. A cheep one will be just as good on a brite day.

But I could be overly Anal

I have spent many years designing and characterising telemetry circuits using similiar sensor arrangements to those used in these chronos. Your post is a GROSS over simplification and is definitely butt thinking

[CSEMARTIN]

When all was said and done, I discovered that my reloads are all within 3 fps of each other.

I set up a chrono, and this time I was getting wider variance in velocity between shots. I don't get it!!!! Do the higher end chronographs come with a manual that explains evertyhing. The ammo I was shooting didn't change. Just the equipment, temperature, etc.

This is driving me nuts.

[tpcdvc]

When all was said and done, I discovered that my reloads are all within 3 fps of each other.

I set up a chrono, and this time I was getting wider variance in velocity between shots. I don't get it!!!! Do the higher end chronographs come with a manual that explains evertyhing. The ammo I was shooting didn't change. Just the equipment, temperature, etc.

This is driving me nuts.

You are driving yourself nuts! Your velocity spread will change from day to day. Your PF will change from day to day. Your underwear will hopefully change from day to day. But none of these things are important (except for the underwear thing). 2 things are important: is your load hot enough to make PF on any given day? And does your load print good groups? I will set my PF at 172 and some places I have been as low as 169.5 and as high as 174. My velocity spread can be as wide as 40fps. But my gun will always make major and will print 5 shot groups under an inch at 25yds all day. The reasons as to why this happens as far as velocity are too numerous to mention and I would be glad to go into them if I see you at a match someday. But rest assured that you will not change them. Spend your time putting rounds down range and thinking about how you can shoot fast and accurate and move through a cof efficiently ect...........................

[pjb45]

I spent some time with the Chrono guys at L10 Nationals last year. They said second best thing you can do is put a barrier in front of the first screen to protect it from the muzzle blast. The muzzle blast will cause a variation in the readings.

I used the exact same chrono as is used at Nationals. With the blast shield in front of the first screen, my ammo was less than 1 power factor different at both L10 and Limited Nationals.