What if they gave a Nationals...

[Jim Norman]

OK, this is a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I think it is a question that might give light to the real question regarding the Nationals scheduling. Most of us don't care all that much where the Nats are, or even when. What I think we all care about is when WE know in regards to the date so we can make plans.

One reason is to be able to schedule Area Matches, Section Matches, and local special matches.

From the various discussions in several threads it seems that almost everyone that has to schedule in advance needed to know last week as Vacation schedule bidding seems to close around now. Some of us don't have that problem, but we may still need to know to accommodate family.

Jim

[zhunter]

OK, I voted 9 months.

Here is why:

I schedule my work for the following year in the beginning of November to the beginning of December. So, once December 10th arrives, my schedule is set in stone for the following year.

So, I really need to know the dates by Mid-October.

Everyone is going to be different depending upon their work and family situations.

[XRe]

I voted a month, but you have to realize that my day job is ridiculously flexible with how I can take vacation - I'm the polar opposite of the guys who have to plan a year in advance....

[Zerwas]

I voted for 6 months. All I have to do is get myself ready (vac, practice, money etc..). That is just from my personal perspective.

However, if the question where more like: "If you were a section coordinator, what would be the minimum timeframe you would like to be notified of the nationals to aid you in planning YOUR local section matches/area matches". I would say at least 1 year.

There really are very few reasons to not have the date out sooner to help the area directors/local SC's in planning their events.

[Hoofy]

I get to put in for vacation ONCE a year. I have to do this by the end of January, so unless SOMEBODY gets off their rump and let's me know when it will be... maybe next year .

[Flatland Shooter]

I also voted one month simply because I'm retired/self-employed and with that amount of notice I can break the news to the family, shuffle around projects that need to be moved, and load up some ammo.

But even with that flexibility I still have my "major match" schedule planned for the next 7 months.

That said, prior to retirement I would have greatly increased the amount of lead time needed to be able to attend.

Should the Nationals be held within the next six months, its hard to see how many still in the workforce are able to attend without ticking off the boss or fellow employees, let alone family members. If the Nationals were to be held the 31st of February (I know, there ain't no Feb 31st), how many key projects will be delayed by their absence? How many fellow employees that were able to schedule in advance must now put their vacations on hold?

In all likely, the Nationals will always have good attendance figures, but without the ability to plan in advance will keep some of the shooters that are first in line for the slots to "pass". (The good new is that is the only way I would ever get a slot.)

Bill

[kimel]

I voted for 4 months due to vacation scheduling. If this was a winter sport and not held during the popular vacation months of the summer then it would not be a big deal; give me a couple week's notice for decent air fares and I am there. But there is a limit to how many folks can be gone at one time and it can be pretty easy to get skunked. The longer I need to be gone, the more chance there is for a conflict.

FWIW...I just signed leave request slips for full weeks off for three of my employees for time frames of June and July. Area 1 2008 dates were announced and I staked my claim to the necessary vacation days the next day. I'll do the same for Nats...when they are announced.

[LPatterson]

I voted 3 months because.... it sounded like a good number. I was thinking lead time for bullet delivery, time to reload, that strange thing called practice. All that is totally moot because the Nationals would have to return to the Northwest before I would consider going, then I would probably volunteer to RO again.

The inability to long range schedule the Nationals is what is probably keeping the number of shooters to manageable levels. If we had a venue that could accommodate all the shooters that wanted to come if they had a years notice we would be talking about a scheduling nightmare. With a typical 18 stage match & 400 shooters thats about 3 1/2 days for shooting depending on the schedule. Now increase that to 600 shooters and what would the schedule become? So increase to 24 stages to accommodate the shooter increase & run into scheduling problems finding the workers.

I keep hearing the problem that people need 9 months to a year to schedule their vacations and point to the president because, by bylaws he controls the Nationals, but how many people out there are going to clubs asking them to bid for the Nationals. Based on what I saw when the Nationals were held at Missoula there is a tremendous amount of lead time between the time the club volunteers to hold the Nationals and when the President can visit the site and check facilities and local infrastructure such as transportation and lodging.

The boss had a sign "If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem", so how about we slow down the bitching and start providing some help.

[vrmn1]

I voted for 1 month. I could probably swing it in 2 weeks but it would be tuff.

Me getting vacation time is easy. Loading ammo, finding a hotel room(or finding a friend that would let me crash at their house), just planning for everything else would just take time.

All of this probably don't matter for this year cause I don't myself going as much as I woud love to.

[Shawn Knight]

I am in the USAF and I have a very dynamic schedule at the moment. I have to get all of my Major Matches scheduled in a Leave forecast close to the beginning of the year sometimes before the start of the new year. I am already scheduled to go to several different matches and I would really like to get my butt to a Nationals. If I can't get it scheduled as early as possible I can't be sure I won't be in a much more sandy (and HOT!) environment. Help an Airman out guys!

[DJPoLo]

I voted a month, but you have to realize that my day job is ridiculously flexible with how I can take vacation - I'm the polar opposite of the guys who have to plan a year in advance....

I voted the same as Xre.

I am fortunate that I have an über-flexible job and can take off on relatively short notice.

-Chet

[Chris Keen]

The title of the thread is slightly misleading.

What if they gave a Nationals..., and nobody REALLY came?

Think about it ... What if they really only gave us 1 months notice ? Would you REALLY still go ? By the numbers given above it looks to me like only 20% would show up. (I know that's not a true representation) But that's like saying there would only be 74 people at NATS ? That's less than some states.

[Kingman]

I took 9 months as my vote. Despite being a teacher, we now have very diverse schedules. At the school and system I am in it is somewhat expected that you do work over the summer. This year I am stuck with doing a summer excellence program and on a team to write new curriculum. So time off needs to be planned in advance.

[SA Friday]

I am in the USAF and I have a very dynamic schedule at the moment. I have to get all of my Major Matches scheduled in a Leave forecast close to the beginning of the year sometimes before the start of the new year. I am already scheduled to go to several different matches and I would really like to get my butt to a Nationals. If I can't get it scheduled as early as possible I can't be sure I won't be in a much more sandy (and HOT!) environment. Help an Airman out guys!

There's an old saying in the military; It hasn't happened till it happens. PCS, TDY, Deployments, Training, War, etc etc..... Orders to anywhere are not solid until it happens and is too late to stop.

I'm in the same boat rowing the in the same waters. Why is it the US Military can forecast, advertise, and let a contract a year out from the construction starting, and USPSA cannot? The US Military is more efficient? Kinda puts it in perspective....

[Carl Provan]

I am like many in this thread that have to put in for vacation in January for that year. Me not being the top dog at work makes getting a weeks vacation on the spot really difficult.

I feel the entire match schedule should be finilized for the next year by december of the previous year.

This includes all Area, Other and Sectional Championship.

Planning to attend an event without a date is nearly impossible. With all of the match dates out by the end of the year everybody can get there vacation and set there travel schedules.

[EZ Bagger]

I come pretty close to being able to go the next day if I really wanted to...as long as it's not during tax season.

[Shawn Knight]

I am in the USAF and I have a very dynamic schedule at the moment. I have to get all of my Major Matches scheduled in a Leave forecast close to the beginning of the year sometimes before the start of the new year. I am already scheduled to go to several different matches and I would really like to get my butt to a Nationals. If I can't get it scheduled as early as possible I can't be sure I won't be in a much more sandy (and HOT!) environment. Help an Airman out guys!

There's an old saying in the military; It hasn't happened till it happens. PCS, TDY, Deployments, Training, War, etc etc..... Orders to anywhere are not solid until it happens and is too late to stop.

I'm in the same boat rowing the in the same waters. Why is it the US Military can forecast, advertise, and let a contract a year out from the construction starting, and USPSA cannot? The US Military is more efficient? Kinda puts it in perspective....

Well I have to add that my forecast is just that, a Forecast. Subject to change at anytime. I could have everything ready to go for a an Area match and get screwed into a TDY because someone breaks their leg. Then I am out a good match and lots of time and effort. I am lucky all these match directors have a heart and usually give back an entry fee if something like that happens.

Edited December 3, 2007 by theknightoflight

[Waltermitty]

I voted for 6 months. All I have to do is get myself ready (vac, practice, money etc..). That is just from my personal perspective.

However, if the question where more like: "If you were a section coordinator, what would be the minimum timeframe you would like to be notified of the nationals to aid you in planning YOUR local section matches/area matches". I would say at least 1 year.

There really are very few reasons to not have the date out sooner to help the area directors/local SC's in planning their events.

+1

[Jim Norman]

Just checking in on the results.

So far if the nationals are held in July and not announced until Jan, we will have lost 50% of the poll respondents. Is this a representative sampling of liklely attendees? I really don't know. I do know that we are already short as many as 26% since it is 9 months till September and 8% need a year and 18% need 9 months.

If the Nationals are held before the World Shoot (a probability, not a certainty) then we are looking at about 7 months out right now. This eliminates a trememdous number of potential shooters as well as causing a scheduling nightmare for the Areas and Sections as well as any other "Special Matches"

This doesn't even touch on the Non-USPSA matches that a lot of us shoot and run, ie., Multi-Gun and Steel and Shotgun and...

Anyway, I know I for one would really like to know so I can finalize some of my plans. I can go, pretty much on demand, but I need to schedule around my business partner's time off as well as I need to schedule family vacation.

If the dates aren't set soon, I will be joining the ranks of "call me next year,I am too busy now" group.

Jim

(Edited for spelling and a bit of grammer)

Edited December 5, 2007 by Jim Norman

[Religious Shooter]

The title to this post sucks.

I haven't read it until today because it doesn't correspond to what it is. How many others who want to chime in have and are doing the same and skipping this thread?

Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr, May, Jun, Jul

1...2...3...4...5...6...7

6-7 months depending on the day of the month it is announced and shot.

Snapshot of poll of when I responded:

over 12 months [ 11 ] [7.05%]

at least 9 months [ 28 ] [17.95%]

at least 6 months [ 37 ] [23.72%]

5 months [ 2 ] [1.28%]

4 months [ 7 ] [4.49%]

3 months [ 17 ] [10.90%]

2 months [ 16 ] [10.26%]

1 month [ 10 ] [6.41%]

2 weeks [ 8 ] [5.13%]

I could show up tomorrow if I found out today [ 14 ] [8.97%]

I don't go to the nationals regardless [ 6 ] [3.85%]

37+2+7+17+16+10+8+14=111

111/156 = 71%

71% of the people could attend if 6-7 months notice was given.

[Jim Norman]

The title to this post sucks.

I haven't read it until today because it doesn't correspond to what it is. How many others who want to chime in have and are doing the same and skipping this thread?

Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr, May, Jun, Jul

1...2...3...4...5...6...7

6-7 months depending on the day of the month it is announced and shot.

Snapshot of poll of when I responded:

over 12 months [ 11 ] [7.05%]

at least 9 months [ 28 ] [17.95%]

at least 6 months [ 37 ] [23.72%]

5 months [ 2 ] [1.28%]

4 months [ 7 ] [4.49%]

3 months [ 17 ] [10.90%]

2 months [ 16 ] [10.26%]

1 month [ 10 ] [6.41%]

2 weeks [ 8 ] [5.13%]

I could show up tomorrow if I found out today [ 14 ] [8.97%]

I don't go to the nationals regardless [ 6 ] [3.85%]

37+2+7+17+16+10+8+14=111

111/156 = 71%

71% of the people could attend if 6-7 months notice was given.

Perhaps if you re-read the first post...

The title was INTENDED to be a bit tongue in cheek.

Of course many people will attend, the top shooters, the ones that are heavily sponsored and the ones for which teaching shooting is more or less a business will of course attend.

The idea of the poll was to see what time frame people would like to see or need to see in order to plan a week off to shoot. Using your numbers, 76 of the 111 need 6 months or MORE, or 49%. We can just as easily say that 5% could go if the match was held in two weeks. So what does this prove? Nothing. It wasn't intended to PROVE anything. It was intended to gather information. The information gained here points out that a significant number of people would like to know in December or better in November of the year preceeding the Nationals based upon historic dates for when the match is generally held.

Additional comments point up the fact that scheduling Area Matches, Charity Matches and Section Matches is constrained by not knowing when the Natinals will be held.

This year we have a pretty good idea that the Nationals are likely to be held in late July since the World Shoot is in August. But that is no guarantee. The appropriate ranges may not be available in that time frame and we could wind up with a Nationals in April or May, or not until September or October. In either case a lot of Area Matches and others are banking on the Mid-Summer time frame and if it does not come to pass there may well be considerable conflicts.

So, instead of picking on the poll why not step up and tell us when your cut-off date is, assuming that you have one. If you don't, then good for you, I hope to be in that positoin some day, until then, I like many others need time to plan. And let's face facts, airfare is cheaper if bought in advance. A lot CHEAPER and more hotel rooms are available, in better venues if booked ahead.

If you are happy not knowing when the Nationals are held until a month prior, good for you. (and no one really thinks we'll only get one month notice, but 4-6 is possible).Me I'd like to know and it looks like the poll respondents also feel that way to a point.

Jim

[Jaxshooter]

I voted for 6 months inorder to get reasonable airfare etc. I am also self employed. I did not consider the problem this creates for Area Directors, Section Coordinators, local match directors that have to schedule Area Matches, State Shoots and Sectional Championships. I can certainly see where not having the dates of the Nationals at the beginning of the year causes a big problem.

I live in Florida and shoot in FL, GA and SC and a few major matches. Conflicting dates could really cause a problem making the State Shoots and major matches.

Nationals dates should be set no later than January 1st each year.

[Shawn Knight]

Again I have to plan my match schedule around my constant Desert rotations. If I don't have an accurate forecast I can't plan out my year to get to these bigger matches.

[1911nm]

I only clicked on two weeks because it's winter and it would take me longer than overnight to "dewinterize" my RV trailer for travel. Other than that, just gimme a slot and I am there.

[Rocket35]

I voted 6 months, as I have picked my vacation and pretty much took all of July and most of June off. Now if it is scheduled other than the time I have off. Then I guess it isn't in my plans to attend. Which sucks, 'cause I earned a slot this year and it would be my first nationals. Looks to me that they only want the "paid" or sponsored shooters to attend anyway. And this is their, "his", way of accomplishing that. I think most members cannot make arrangements in the kind of time frame we are looking at. It really is becomming pathetic.