9 major vs. 38 Super

[Rescator]

After playing around about a year with 9 major, I have started to rethink going back to .38 super. I have had constantly wierd problems with the gun (custom built based on STI mainparts) or inparticular with mags (STI tubes with Grams internals). Earlier I managed to easily to shoot at least 1000 rounds wiyhout a single problem. For some reason I never managed to get my 9 major shorty to run in same level.

What I have learnt is that the most critical area are ammos. I have reload my brass 3 - 4 times untill I have left them to ground. Also all competiton ammos have been loaded on once shooted brass. With VV 3n37 and 124 gr bullets it has been easy to reach major PF.

Also there have been quite a challenge to keep mags in good shape in order to run flawlesly. There is virtually a constant tuning in progress.

Finally the timing ( the speed of slide) have been under constant monitoring, as I prefer to use light springs and heavily lightened slide and tend to like the slide moving fast and feeling snappy. That easily caused problems for feeding.

With little less attention have been given to proper shape of extarctor (aftec) and ejector.

So, any opinion, am I doing the right decision to move back to standard lenght .38 super comp or how do you see the matter? The feel is quite the same, IMO, wheter to go 9 major or .38 super

[edwin garcia]

i myself tried 9 major for a year and decided to move back to 38 SC.

Reason, i don't have a guaranteed supply of good 9 mm brass that i would sort out the headstamps i wanted.

Uniform headstamps guaranteed my gun functioned 99.9%

The time spent sorting out brass was costly for me.

Other problems seem to pop-up once in a while and in a big match, you just can't have those.

Now, some of my shooting buddies are still shooting 9 major and are pretty successful with it.

Personally, and this is a personal opinion, i am now more confident in my gun and ammo with the .38 SC

than when i was in 9major.

Going back to 38 SC may not solve all your problems, you will go back to buying SC brass and picking them up at matches/practice.

In hindsight, I learned a lot from shooting 9 major and i have all respect for those who are shooting it with success.

[Adam B]

I have shot major 9 for over 4 years, I have owned 5 inch guns, shorty guns and 2 factory guns, and have never had single issue. I do shoot same headstamp once fired brass, I don't over crimp my rounds and I use SVI mags. That combo has worked great for me and I am sure others will attest to it as well.

[Chriss Grube]

9 Major works if the gun is set up with proper ejector and an aftec. Mags is a very simple issue use SV tubes. STI mags suck for 9 major unless you want to get into screwing around with spacers and tuning. Buy the SV tubes and don't look back. I used to sort brass by headstamps. Now I don't waste my time. It was only for Chrono consistency anyway. I see guys with super .40 and every other caliber have issues. Most of the time it is the guy that keeps tinkering with his equipment. Get the gun running and leave the damn thing alone. I run the light RM and my slide is seriouly lightened so that isn't the issue.

[HSMITH]

The lighter the recoil and main springs and lighter the slide the faster the slide cycles, the faster the slide cycles the more critical magazines become. If your gun was built right and you load quality ammo then magazines are likely the rest of your problem. With a heavier slide and/or stronger recoil and main springs the magazines become less of an issue. Like anything you need balance here, and it likely isn't something that people get right on the first try.

If you are constantly tuning magazines you need to just buckle down and buy some done professionally. Get good magazines and then chase gun problems if it still doesn't run.

Provide some detailed descriptions of HOW the gun malfunctions and that will help a lot in getting to the bottom of your problems. There are far too many reliable 9mm Major guns out there to say the cartridge used is at fault. I see as many or more Super guns choke around here as I do 9mm guns.

[scirocco38s]

The lighter the recoil and main springs and lighter the slide the faster the slide cycles, the faster the slide cycles the more critical magazines become. If your gun was built right and you load quality ammo then magazines are likely the rest of your problem. With a heavier slide and/or stronger recoil and main springs the magazines become less of an issue. Like anything you need balance here, and it likely isn't something that people get right on the first try.

If you are constantly tuning magazines you need to just buckle down and buy some done professionally. Get good magazines and then chase gun problems if it still doesn't run.

Provide some detailed descriptions of HOW the gun malfunctions and that will help a lot in getting to the bottom of your problems. There are far too many reliable 9mm Major guns out there to say the cartridge used is at fault. I see as many or more Super guns choke around here as I do 9mm guns.

I completely agree. The mags have to be a known 100% item. I was fortunate to find a person leaving open and sold me his 4 140 and 170 mags that were tuned by Gramms. They have the spacers and the correct followers as well as the bases. I put together a major 9 built with mostly sti parts and after sorting it out the only real problem has been brass. I developed it with range brass and some of it would case guage. If I tried to run it I would start having trouble. That being said, My match guns are still 38sc. I only run major 9 at 2 ranges that are difficult to retrieve my brass. All my practice is with 38sc as I only loose about 2% during a session plus it sweeps up of the floor easier. I just bought a new open gun from SVI and it is 38sc. I have found though if I run winchester brass that is once fired, I have very consistent velocities and zero problems if I start running mixed brass the problems can show up itermittently as somewhat mysterious ejection extraction issues. Go back to winchester, problem goes away. Long story, but major 9 can be made to work and work reliaby, but 38sc is just so much easier that I wont change regarless of the costs of the brass.

[jjanglin]

Hey Guys:

I have built a bunch of the 9mm open guns, they are harder to get to run in some ways,If I can talk the

customer into not using a bull barrel or too much comp or putting holes in the barrel its not too bad.

I dont like them and wouldnt own one, I had some 9mm winchesther brass come apart and lodge in

my forehead, (new brass) was shooting accross the crono at the time so it wasnt a hot load.

I have found that they work best if ya keep the power factor 168-170.

The reason some of the shooters use is not wanting to pick up brass , WELL I think that sucks,

I put a tarp down when Im shooting 22 cal. I feel if ya put it on the ground ya should pick it up.

I shoot 38 super and dont have any problem unless I mess up a load and dont check em out before

I shoot em.

I just think its a bad idea to shoot 9mm major.

Jim

Sailors custom

[mikeAZ]

9mm major works for me. Have put many rounds down range, all 171 Pf x124 rn bullets.... Didn't like #7625... 2 case seperations + too fast? I can get a safe 3,4,5 reloads & pitch them when I can feel no resistance when I seat the primer.... I think the BIG thing is the Lee "U" sizing die.... never leave home without it!! I put vertually no crimp (not needed) and run SV mags and 124 rn at about 1.119/ 1.2200 overall lenght, a Sprinco and a *8 spring. I guage every round and pitch anything that looks suspicious (marks at the bottom of the case). I've sold 2 of my 38 Super guns... got one to go. I usually come home with more brass than I've shot,... who wants 9mm??? it's junk right???, send me all your 9mm brass!!!

[HSMITH]

Hmmmm, I run my 9mm major gun at 175-180 power factor, and have since I built it for all but testing new loads. All of them I have built are running 172-180 as far as I know, that is what I told them to run. Mixed brass for practice and sorted once fired for big matches, with Winchester being the preferred brand. No pressure problems, no case failures, no problems at all has been my experience as long as the magazines and loads are decent.

Jim, I wouldn't hesitate for a minute to have you build a gun for me, but on 9mm major I couldn't disagree with you more. More than anything it makes me wonder why we have such different experiences with 9mm major guns, I respect your ability and opinions completely but I also know a thing or two and we are a world apart on this subject. Interesting for sure. The safe money would be that neither one of us is 'right' and that both of us are 'part right'.

Take care, Howard.

[ipscbob]

38 supercomp loaded to 173+ PF, 5 inch slide, and NO barrel holes is the sweet setup for me. I would much rather spend a minute or two per stage picking up my 38 supercomp brass then to have to constantly tweak the gun and mags to keep the 9mm gun running. Makes no sense to me to spend $4K+ on a gun and mags and then cut obvious corners in the choice of ammo to feed it.

[Chriss Grube]

I started running 9 major before they dropped the length restriction and have run it at 175 pf with mixed brass no issues. Like I said find a Gunsmith that can build the gun right and you have no issues. EGW built mine and it ran right out of the box with STI Mags. When we finally convinced the BOD to do away with the 1.250 length requirement I found the STI mags would not work with the shorter rounds. I lucked out because my big stick was an SV and worked flawlessly. Switch the other tubes to SV and gee no issues. My ammo runs a 172-174 PF. I'm sure Jim is a good guy and can build a gun, but there are too many good smiths out there building perfectly reliable 9 major guns for a silly statement like 9 major is a bad idea. I guess since a Winchester 9 case blew it is all bad. I've seen lots of other calibers and makes of brass fail. I guess since someone had an issue with this or that brand of car all the cars of that brand are junk??? Personally I think you guys should all switch to 38 super/SC or TJ and leave all the 9mm brass for me. Find a good gunsmith that knows how to set a gun up and it won't matter if it is 9 super, 40 or 45.

[mike4045]

I have tried guns in both cals. and decided to stick with 38SC. I have kept the 9mm gun for practice and for the kids to play with shooting minor only. I shot both guns for a few months and just liked the 38 SC better. I shoot the same powder and bullets for both guns. I did change out my 9mm mags to SV and they do work better. So far they have been flawless at 150 pf, I still have issues at 170 pf. I really did not like loading the shorter case 9mm either. I am thinking of playing with the 9mm for steel matches or anywhere that I might lose brass at.

Mike

[foxtrotuniformlima]

Here is what I have learned:

1) Same powder that worked in 38 super works in 9 major ; VV N350

2) Magazines are key. I have only used the SVI mags. They work, when kept clean.

3) The gun does not like to be dirty. Clean it every time. no exceptions.

4) Brass prep is just as important. I roll size mine. I guess a EGW or Ledd "U" would be good too.

5) I can load up 10 K at once on the 1050 and be set for awhile. That is convenient.

10 K once fired 9x19 cases @ ~ 20.00 K = $ 200.00

10 K new Starline 38 super comp @ 125.00 K = $ 1250.00

[jjanglin]

Hmmmm, I run my 9mm major gun at 175-180 power factor, and have since I built it for all but testing new loads. All of them I have built are running 172-180 as far as I know, that is what I told them to run. Mixed brass for practice and sorted once fired for big matches, with Winchester being the preferred brand. No pressure problems, no case failures, no problems at all has been my experience as long as the magazines and loads are decent.

Jim, I wouldn't hesitate for a minute to have you build a gun for me, but on 9mm major I couldn't disagree with you more. More than anything it makes me wonder why we have such different experiences with 9mm major guns, I respect your ability and opinions completely but I also know a thing or two and we are a world apart on this subject. Interesting for sure. The safe money would be that neither one of us is 'right' and that both of us are 'part right'.

Take care, Howard.

Howard:

Thanks I feel the same way about you.

I dont know that we are all that far apart, building a 9mm open gun can be done in several differant

configurations the way I like to do it works for me and keeps my customers happy.

You do yours your customers are happy .

Keeps things interesting I guess, some shooters are easier to building guns for because they have a

good idea of how things work and others arent . I try to strike a happy medium and keep

em shooting with the least amount of problems, when I find that I try to stay with it.

An old Warrent Officer instilled that Idea in me at a young age , I hope it kept some folks alive

back in the 60`s.

Jim/Pa

[.40AET]

I've been running a 9major for 2.5 years. I bought the wrong mag catch for it and after I changed it the gun has run 100%.

Here's what I know:

I have plenty of powder and bullet choices.

The gun will gobble up 134pf steel loads all day long with a 7#spring.

I've only used SV mags and never had problems.

Mixed brass has not been a problem.

I use sorted single head stamp for major matches.

I don't clean it any more or less than the other guns.

If I built another open gun it would be a 9major too.

YMMV

[the duck of death]

Since the subject of the thread isn't restricted to the 1911 platform I'll add my thoughts. I have a Glock 34 w/KKM barrel and comp & couldn't be happier. It's 100% reliable w/28 round TF mag extensions, is easy to make major using HS-6 and Silhouette. It's as easy on brass as any 9mm load and very accurate.

[jostein jensen]

I just got my SV 9mm open gun.

It feeds and ejects everything I've given it. Works well with factory and handloads and anything in between. I've only got one mag and its an SV 170mm. Got two more incoming from HSMITH. I don't want to be troubled due to mags so I'm getting tuned ones.

As for powders, I don't know yet because my Dillon top is inbound via boat from your side of the little lake we call atlantic along with bullets and stuff......

[rtr]

I've been running major 9 for 3 years or so and have had great luck with the gun. It's based on an STI short block kit with an aftec extractor. I have run several different kinds of brass, all using 124 gr MG bullets at 1.16-1.165 with STI mags tuned by Beven with metal spacers.

[Radical Precision Designs]

So ... this is another one of these "love/hate Fests" ... (????)

My likes: I like both the Major 9 Open ... and the .38 Super/comp.

My dis-likes: Either one that I have run short in loaded rounds prior to a match.

To any 'smith or "wannabe-'smith's" out there all I have to say is: "Stop bellyaching, and start learning what makes any set-up work, then when and if you have the need to implement it .. go do it. I will not argue with anyone as to specific points. ALL Open Guns are finicky to some degree in what and how they do things. Kind of like personality quirks you need to understand, (just like chinldren )

If you are not willing to put up with these little inconveniences of integrating into shooting Open, then go back to throwing stones at your targets, or leave it to someone else. I am tired and bored of so many one-sided opinionated half truths. I love to share both ways, and I will listen again and again to similar stories. But it wears down on my patience after a while to see wanton flaming of any well deserving, established set-up or design. Just remember Brain's words: Maku Mozo !!!!!!

[Alan Meek]

So ... this is another one of these "love/hate Fests" ... (????)

My likes: I like both the Major 9 Open ... and the .38 Super/comp.

My dis-likes: Either one that I have run short in loaded rounds prior to a match.

To any 'smith or "wannabe-'smith's" out there all I have to say is: "Stop bellyaching, and start learning what makes any set-up work, then when and if you have the need to implement it .. go do it. I will not argue with anyone as to specific points. ALL Open Guns are finicky to some degree in what and how they do things. Kind of like personality quirks you need to understand, (just like chinldren )

If you are not willing to put up with these little inconveniences of integrating into shooting Open, then go back to throwing stones at your targets, or leave it to someone else. I am tired and bored of so many one-sided opinionated half truths. I love to share both ways, and I will listen again and again to similar stories. But it wears down on my patience after a while to see wanton flaming of any well deserving, established set-up or design. Just remember Brain's words: Maku Mozo !!!!!!

Venry, I could not agree with you more.

Lets go SHOOT, who cares what you shoot, but we should be putting holes in targets and knocking down steel.

Alan

[.40AET]

After playing around about a year with 9 major, I have started to rethink going back to .38 super. I have had constantly wierd problems with the gun (custom built based on STI main parts) or in particular with mags (STI tubes with Grams internals). Earlier I managed to easily to shoot at least 1000 rounds without a single problem. For some reason I never managed to get my 9 major shorty to run in same level.

So, any opinion, am I doing the right decision to move back to standard length .38 super comp or how do you see the matter? The feel is quite the same, IMO, wheter to go 9 major or .38 super

I think that you would have been happy with the 9Major gun that you have if it ran 100%. The fact is, it doesn't. So you want to change calibers in hopes of a better gun. I would get the gun and the magazines running 100% and then make up my mind. I've seen plenty of open guns puke. The only good ones are the ones that run, regardless of caliber.

My short opinion: Send it to a Pro and get it fixed.

Good luck

[blkbrd]

I have seen more malfunctions with Super & Super Comp. than 9mm.

It's the explanations that get me.

If a 9 malfunctions it was the gun............

When a super malfunctions it was, the phase of the moon, the weather, the lubricant, the sand, the extractor, the ejector, the wife, the powder lot, the grip, the super and super comp mixed brass, the 40 firings on the brass, the 9mm brass you stepped on, the guy that just beat you because he practiced, the extra round wedged in the big stick trying to compete, did I mention the phase of the moon?

A super shooter will pick up his own brass, inspect it, clean it, inspect it, roll size it, inspect it, load it, inspect it. Get the picture.

Its a machine. If its built it right, lubricated and fed it good ammo it will run.........And run.......And run........Then it will wear out or break.

Yes I shoot a 9, and its a sewing machine. Just go me to my M card.

Edited to say: If your a top master or GM "you may need" the small advantage in recoil impulse you can get with a Super.

Edited October 8, 2007 by blkbrd

[GentlemanJim]

As I have said on several 9major threads....it works for me

I never sort brass ... if it fits the gauge ...it will shoot in the gun.

My STI trubor had some issues at first...but I sorted them all out and the gun has been quite nice ever sense.

Over the years I have seen every caliber of gun fail its master...9mm does not have the market cornered.

We also shoot 3 gun and practice CQB with a 9mm AR15...with major loads ...same load for our pistols.

The many thousands of dollars saved in ammo and wear on our 223 rifles alone allows us to shoot MORE and go to more matches.

If a person prefers to spend $125.00 per K on brass ...to my $20.00 per K ..feel free to do so

Every person needs to use what they feel most comfortable with....and having confidence in your equipment is an empowering thing.

There is no ..(my dogs better than your dog) thing here, just honest and differing opinions.

Jim

[Jake Di Vita]

I've shot 9mm Major and 38 SC and was plagued by both platforms. When I go back to Open I am seriously considering using .40 or I may try the Tanfogio in 38 SC. Haven't decided yet - but out of all of the 2011 open guns that I've seen, there is maybe only 2 or 3 that I have never seen jam.

[Flatland Shooter]

I've shot 9mm Major and 38 SC and was plagued by both platforms. When I go back to Open I am seriously considering using .40 or I may try the Tanfogio in 38 SC. Haven't decided yet - but out of all of the 2011 open guns that I've seen, there is maybe only 2 or 3 that I have never seen jam.

And if I could do reloads like Jake, I'd consider getting my old .45 ACP open gun out for a run. For some people, the number of rounds a mag holds is of minor consequence. As for my skill level, I guess I need to order a few more 170mm mags.

Bill