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AR15 muzzle brake suggestion

mike240

By mike240
in Rifle - Technical

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cpty1 Finally read the FAQs

cpty1

Posted
Posted

I initially put a JP tank brake on my open AR. I figured since the tank brake isn't limited legal then it had to be a better comp. After shooting a SJC Titan comp side by side with the tank brake, I have a different opinion. My open AR now sports a Titan. BTW, I have a lightly used JP tank brake I'll let go cheap. As an interesting side note, you can press the muzzle of a Titan comped rifle firmly against a sheet of paper and fire a round and there will only be the bullet hole in the paper. No blast exiting forward at all. On the other hand, anybody and anything within 10 feet off the right and left side of the muzzle is in trouble. I've had glasses, notepads, pens, and numerous other items blown off the bench. Scroll down the page linked below. I've just recently added this Titan video:

Titan comp

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P.E. Kelley Sees Sights Lift

P.E. Kelley

Posted
Posted
Mike240,

The next Front Sight magazine should have the test results of a number of popular comps.

Mig

This is true.

Brakes tested. JP (tank and cooley) SJC (titan) TTi (eliminator) DNTC (neth) Sabre Defense (gill) DPMS (miculek) Mr. Hill's (rolling thunder)

November/December Issue Front Sight.

Patrick

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  • 2 weeks later...
Westerman Looks for Range

Westerman

Posted
Posted
The SJC Titan is Standard legal. Mine measures 0.985 diameter. Rule book shows 1" OD max.

This is a EXCELLENT comp. You won't be disappointed.

Double check the overall length.

Patrick

It is NOT the overall length that counts. It is the length that is added to your barrel. The threads don't count. It was designed to be legal in all divisions. There are many using it in all divisions. I'll be using it at the Nationals. I'm pretty sure I'll be good for Tactical div.

Notice description says "limited and tactical division legal"

http://www.cpwsa.com/s_&_j_customs.htm

"Legal for Limited, Tactical, and Open Division rifles"

http://stores.sjcguns.com/Detail.bok?no=52

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P.E. Kelley Sees Sights Lift

P.E. Kelley

Posted
Posted
The SJC Titan is Standard legal. Mine measures 0.985 diameter. Rule book shows 1" OD max.

This is a EXCELLENT comp. You won't be disappointed.

Double check the overall length.

Patrick

It is NOT the overall length that counts. It is the length that is added to your barrel. The threads don't count. It was designed to be legal in all divisions. There are many using it in all divisions. I'll be using it at the Nationals. I'm pretty sure I'll be good for Tactical div.

Notice description says "limited and tactical division legal"

http://www.cpwsa.com/s_&_j_customs.htm

"Legal for Limited, Tactical, and Open Division rifles"

http://stores.sjcguns.com/Detail.bok?no=52

Yes it is a very good brake.

I am sorry the only factual information I can locate within the USPSA rule book says.

"Maximum 1.00" Diameter and 3.00" in Length.

Neither mention of threads nor how to measure. Subject to interpretation I guess.

Patrick

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Westerman Looks for Range

Westerman

Posted
Posted

I can't imagine a company designing a comp specifically for the purpose of being legal in all divisions not getting approval of their design prior to spending time, effort, labor, material, money, etc. in the manufacture them.

Can you imagine the cost they would incur replacing all the comps they have sold with legal ones if the current ones are found to be illegal?

I'm confident they did their research before going into production.

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Bear1142 Finally read the FAQs

Bear1142

Posted
Posted

This issue came up several years ago, sometime around 2003/2004. Whenever the USPSA 3-gun rules were rolled out. There was a question regarding how the comps were being measured, stand alone or attached to the barrel. Amidon made a ruling that the comps were measured from the end of the muzzle with the comp attached. At the time the '94 Assault Weapons ban was still in effect. Several AR manufacturers were offering AR's with permanently attached comps. There was no way to remove the comp for measurement, so the ruling came down that comps could be no longer than 3" over barrel length. This did not take into account that even the perm. attached barrels were still threaded onto the barrel before being perm. attached.

Since most rifle barrels have 1/2" of threaded barrel, a comp could actually be 3.5" long (stand alone measurement) and still be legal. Most of the "long" style comps will measure right around 3 1/4" long, but when attached to the barrel and measured will only add 2 3/4" length due to the threading. Unfortunately, this is a ruling from Amidon and is not located in the rulebook. Hopefully, future editions will add this measurement provision.

The SJC Titan is 3 1/4" long and is perfectly legal for Limited and Tactical divisions, as is the Bushmaster Y-comp, the TTI Eliminator comp, and the ZM weapons comp.

Erik

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RiggerJJ Sees Sights

RiggerJJ

Posted
Posted

Hey Eric,

Do you have a copy of that John Amidon ruling?

Has anyone in the IMGA world made a similar ruling?

from 1st glance in RM3G's rules its pretty clear;

"6.5.5 Rifle may have a compensator that is not more than 1” in diameter and 3” long."

jj

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Bear1142 Finally read the FAQs

Bear1142

Posted
Posted (edited)

RiggerJJ,

I wish I did save that email! I do remember it happened just before the 2004 3-gun nationals. We had several interested parties email Amidon about the ruling and he replied in an email. I remember saving the email for the match director...just in case, but it never became an issue.

Regarding the IMGA rules, I checked with the various match directors prior to the matches and I've never had a problem, but I've never seen anything in writing other than what you posted. I think most other matches have also adopted the position that the threaded portion of the compensator does not count for overall length.

Erik

Edited by Bear1142
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TRUBL Calls Shots

TRUBL

Posted
Posted (edited)

WOW......I understand how John came up with that ruling. and it makes sense, to a point. Kind of how you measure a barrel, from a closed bolt.

I can also see the overall length thing too.

You may need to seek out John and get a written ruling for this. Probabaly should be re-written as it is no longer an over all length, as opposed to how much it adds to your barrel length.

Also......it kinda sucks in a way, in that manufacturers....should have known this so they could re-design their comps accordingly.

Tim

Edited by TRUBL
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kurtm Calls Shots

kurtm

Posted
Posted

J.J. I DID make a ruling at RM3G back when I was doing the rules ( 2002-2004 ), that I didn't consider the threaded portion that screws onto the barrel to be "part of the comp". I informed Dan Furby at SMM3G of that dicision, and he thought that was good also. Matter of fact Erik asked me that very same question back then and originally it came up about the Ycomp from Bushmaster. So I think Erik was at that time about to design and produce that Titan comp. We never codified it in the rules because the threaded section ISNT part of the comp. I felt, and still do, that the working part of the comp is where the barrel ends to the end of the comp, not where the threads start at the rear of the comp. so the rules are written as to the "comp" part of the piece you put on the front. Therefore no rule change was deemed neccessary. Kurt Miller

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bigbrowndog Sees Sights

bigbrowndog

Posted
Posted

what is the definition of length?.................................range lawyers?

It is a slippery slope that we are on,.............. just as barrel length for a revolver does not include the chamber, but for an auto it does????????

Not that my opinion counts for anything, but if I were ROing, and based on the current wording of the rules i'd have to say that a comp, 3.01" in OA length is longer than the rules allow.

Since ALL rules are open to interpretation by the Match director/Range master at the time of the match, and not by Mr. Amidon, i'd say its risky!!!!

Trapr

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Religious Shooter Sees Sights Lift

Religious Shooter

Posted
Posted

RM3G should take the step and clarify it. The fact that we are here talking about indicates that it needs clarification. It would be nice if all orgs/matches made a clarification.

I'm sort of for KurtM's explanation and reasoning. The length of the comp after the barrel (where the baffles and ports are located) should be where the measurement is taken. For competitive purposes the attachment (currently) doesn't really give a competitor an advantage.

... but be aware that if you use the above criteria there is a way to game it. The attachment area can be drilled through (e.g. through the threads) and you can effectively have more baffle area and you are effectively circumventing the rule.

You can maybe add a sentence or two saying the ports and baffles can only be located past the end of the barrel.

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bigbrowndog Sees Sights

bigbrowndog

Posted
Posted (edited)

Overall length is much easier to measure, just make a ruling on what the overall length should be and leave it. If it needs to be 3.5" then make it that. It seems to me 3" is pretty good just the way it is. Its interpretation that clouds the waters.

Trapr

Edited by bigbrowndog
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