ebay

[Merlin Orr]

Hello everyone…In mid-August, we will be updating our Firearms, Weapons and Knives Policy to place more restrictions around gun-related items. Once these changes take effect, we will prohibit listings of any firearm part that is required for the firing of a gun. This includes items like bullet tips, brass casings and shells, barrels, slides, cylinders, magazines, firing pins, trigger assemblies, etc. Please read the Firearms, Weapons and Knives Policy for more details on our current policy.

As you may know, eBay does not allow the listing of any items which are regulated by individual states or the federal government; however, there are still a large number of firearm-related parts that are legal and are widely available in retail stores. These items have also historically been allowed on eBay.

After learning that some items purchased on eBay may have been used in the tragedy at Virginia Tech in April 2007, we felt that revisiting our policies was not only necessary, but the right thing to do. After much consideration, the Trust & Safety policy team – along with our executive leaders at eBay Inc. – have made the decision to further restrict more of these items than federal and state regulations require.

This new update continues to encourage safety among our community members and brings our policies in the U.S. and Canada in closer alignment with our existing policies in other markets around the globe.

Sincerely,

Matt Halprin

Vice President, Trust & Safety

[ChrisStock]

Goodbye ebay, goodbye paypal. Actually, no good at all...just bye bye.

[10es&]

This makes about as much sense as not allowing car parts to be sold on their site if there was an automobile involved in an crime that had an used power steering pump purchased off Ebay’s site.

I am a regular on Ebay but this is just about enough to make me close my account. I choose not to purchase from stores around my house that have anti-gun ties like Target and a few others.

[John Baier]

Shameful

[tightloop]

That is a shame...

[GentlemanJim]

I will be looking for an alternate auction site.

I am sick of this crap

Well I have to quit now...before I say something a gentleman should not say

A VERY irritated Jim.

PS thanks for the heads up Merlin

[get2now]

Ebay and Paypal suck. They only worry about themselves (legal ramifications) so they can be safe. They don't worry too much about fraud though. I've lost hundreds and they haven't done too much to help. "Bullet tips" ???

YMMV

G

[SiG Lady]

"we will prohibit listings of any firearm part that is required for the firing of a gun."

Well, now... if you wrap your mind around that one for just a moment, that just about covers everything, doesn't it?!?!?!? Jeez.

I have a friend who sells guns parts and Glock stuff on eBay and he'll be mortally wounded...! (an out-of-work mechanical engineer managing the squeeze a little bit of a living out of eBay... Jeez.)

[J-Ho]

I sugest we get the word out about Gunbroker.com. It looks an awful lot like ebay, but it has things that go boom.

[Chris Keen]

Goodbye ebay, goodbye paypal. Actually, no good at all...just bye bye.

+1

I sugest we get the word out about Gunbroker.com. It looks an awful lot like ebay, but it has things that go boom.

+2

[Adam B]

someone who has more startup money than I do, needs to start a web based pay service (similar to the paypal) that is gun friendly that users of gunborker.com can use, as well as anyone who wants to sell guns via the internet, they would make a killing! Ebay and paypal suck!

[AustinMike]

Anybody know how to contact this moron, Matt Halprin? I'd like to call or write and explain why he just cost ebay a customer. What idiocy. What if the Virgina Tech shooter bought his shoes on ebay? Oh no, better ban shoes too!

[JThompson]

Anybody know how to contact this moron, Matt Halprin? I'd like to call or write and explain why he just cost ebay a customer. What idiocy. What if the Virgina Tech shooter bought his shoes on ebay? Oh no, better ban shoes too!

Ask and yee shall receive: Matt Halprin, mhalprin@ebay.com, Vice President, eBay Global Trust & Safety Policy

JT

[Paul B]

I have avoided both E-Bay and Paypal from the start because I heard of their high handed practices. Now there are comments circulating on several forums that the blush may be leaving the E-Bay rose for a lot of other reasons.

Sniping: programs that allow people to bid at the very last moment for $.01 more than the last bid.

Bidding up your own product, either directly or through "friends."

Failure to perform - bid with no reserve, but then refuse to sell - item shows up later.

Items bought and resold immediately before they are even delivered.

Fraud by sellers

I know, E-Bay is suposed to police most of this but it still happens and a lot of people get screwed.

I don't think E-Bay will be going out of business anytime soon but I think that more potential customers are more wary than they were and this is another example why.

[AustinMike]

Thanks, JT. Letter sent. Hopefully his inbox is getting full today.

[traxman]

This includes items like bullet tips, brass casings and shells, barrels, slides, cylinders, magazines, firing pins, trigger assemblies, etc.

No brass sales on ebay! Yeow! what to do with hundreds of pounds of brass in garage....

Is there another site for online brass sales? I'm too small for my own site... Just too much overhead.

traxman

[SiG Lady]

RE: what PaulB said... There was something in the Wall Street Journal or somewhere a week ago that eBay had kinda flattened out a bit (the auctions part) and that their profits were coming from other aspects of their business. My biggest complaint is SNIPING. I'm not into fighting over items--too much emotional baggage to carry. And I'm not about to buy snipe-ware for the few "buying" exercises I do online.

I did note some rapid response from somewhere in the bowels of eBay/PayPal when I (and about three other buyers) had non-delivery problems of paid-for items. A few short days after escalating my situation to a "Claim" with PayPal, the package with the item shows up and was dated just 48 hours after the claim was escalated. Somebody contacted SOMEONE here in all this and it worked. And the seller was removed by them from her registration. But that's been my only glitch-experience with eBay/PayPal of that kind (and I ended up with my item anyway), so I can't claim to know any more than that. But knowing what DOES tend to happen on eBay, I can see why many people are sick 'n pi**ed.

[foxtrotuniformlima]

Auctionarms.com & gunbroker.com are 2 auction sites that sell firearms and related stuff.

BTW, Gunbroker has a cool feature that adds time to the end of the auction if someone bids within the last 15 min.

So if some tries to bid with 5 seconds left, it adds 15 minutes on.

As for a replacement to Paypal, Gearpay.com

[Flatland Shooter]

No brass sales on ebay! Yeow! what to do with hundreds of pounds of brass in garage....

Is there another site for online brass sales? I'm too small for my own site... Just too much overhead.

traxman

This forum's classifieds? Many are on the watch for brass at a decent price.

Bill

[The Law]

Here's my response after emailing Halprin:

Dear [the law],

Thank you for your recent email to Matt Halprin in regard to changes to

our Firearms, Weapons and Knives policy. He has asked that I review

your email and respond on his behalf.

Let me start by saying that I understand that this is a very

frustrating situation. Before choosing to discontinue use of your eBay and PayPal

accounts I hope that you would allow me the opportunity to explain why

we have chosen to amend our policy.

Like the rest of the nation, eBay was deeply saddened and shocked by

the events at Virginia Tech and we felt that it was not only appropriate,

but necessary, to revisit our related policies. While nothing purchased

on our site was illegal in any way, we felt compelled to ask ourselves

some tough questions and ensure we do everything possible to provide a

safe and trusted marketplace. After careful consideration, we decided

to expand the scope of our existing policy to specifically restrict any

part that is required for the firing of a gun.

We have always valued an open and transparent marketplace; if items are

legal to buy and sell in an unrestricted manner we allow them on our

site. However, there are some items that while legal, may not be safe

for our marketplace. In these instances, our applicable policies go

beyond the law to ensure that our marketplace is safe.

After careful consideration our executives and our Trust and Safety

team determined, that while legal, any item required to fire a gun has no

place on eBay. All of our policies are under constant review. As the

Internet and the way our communities use the Internet evolves, our

policies and our marketplace must evolve with it. We determined that

this policy change was in the best interest of promoting a safe

marketplace for all members.

I understand your frustration regarding this matter and apologize for

the inconvenience it caused you.

Sincerely,

Terri

Office of the President

[Cactustactical]

Paypal has never been your friend.

They have a policy of freezing your account if you are found to be using their payment tool for any item which appears on a long list of banned items which include: guns, hi cap mags, ammo, various knives, fireworks, and a whole lot of other items.

When they freeze your account, you have no access to the funds in it until they decide to release it. No appeal, no one to talk to, it just happens. Our account was frozen last year for selling hi cap magazines. To unfreeze the account, they demanded that we stop selling the hi caps. Nope, I don't think so.

We had our company lawyer send them a registered letter demanding the account be opened or we would sue them in the state of Arizona for unlawful business practices. Funny access to the account was opened up the day after the letter was received. We transferred our money our and closed it down.

I hear this story over and over as they seem to have an audit dept who's only purpose in life is to look for accounts to freeze. It got worse after ebay bought them because they could look thru ebay auctions to find sellers offering forbidden items.

If you are looking for online sites to sell things on, I would suggest Gunbroker. It has been around for at least 5 years, is very stable, has anti sniping software built in and you are not charged for a listing until it sells. They allow anything firearm related: NFA, 50 cal, etc. Like any auction site, buyer beware, check out the seller.

On the payment tool side, there is Gearpay. It has been around for about a year. I believe it is safe, but the problem is that it does not have a lot of users. It takes both sides (buyer / seller) to accept it to work.

I was looking at the Google checkout process the other day becasue it is gaining a lot of acceptance. They also have prohibitions against firearms, although I don't think it goes all the way down to components. I would have to look in more detail.

A long post, but the summary is: ebay and paypal are not your friend if you own firearms. Don't be surprised by their actions or expect emails and phone calls to change them.

[JThompson]

I sent this off after I looked up the email:

Mr.. Halprin,

Recent policy changes pertaining to firearms and/or ammunition components have forced me to reevaluate my relationship with eBay/Paypal. I will be closing both my accounts with these companies. I know my few thousands dollars a year will not hurt the company, but I can't in good conscience do business with someone who goes so far as to ban components... this sets a bad precedent and therefore I have decided to cease doing business with your companies.

Children die from defective toys sold on eBay. People die in cars who's parts were bought on eBay. Appliances sold can cause house fires in which whole families might die.... Should eBay then not sell car parts, toys and appliances? No, of course not it's ludicrous and so is your policy towards gun components or ammunition components where not regulated by law.

To me this is people pushing other agendas and shamelessly pointing the finger at a tragic event to further there own agendas. One can only wonder how good eBay would be if they pursued deadbeat bidders and fraud with the same diligence they have for anything related to guns; a much better eBay, I should think.

Jim Thompson

Former eBay/Paypal user

[Adam B]

rock on, I hate those pricks!!!

[folsoml]

It's about time! My neighbor had some gun parts delivered the other day and, before he could get home, the parts jumped out of the box and started killing people all on their own.

In all seriousness, I've had very good luck using gunbroker.com. Unlike e-bay, you pay a reasonable percentage of the cost of what you sell. You pay NOTHING to list an item until it sells. I've sold and bought brass and guns with no problems.

[SiG Lady]

I just can't imagine eBay/PayPal having objections to BRASS, for cryin' out loud. One of my very first eBay purchases was, in fact 1,000 .45ACP casings (nice quality stuff, too--probably once-fired casings) from a nice guy in Los Angeles. It was my first batch of brass for reloading. (I'm still using that batch). At that time I had no other affordable way to acquire hundreds of rds of brass so I turned to eBay (where there was gobs of it). How many other people like me (or close to it) depend on sources like this for reasonable prices and expedient delivery of shooting-related goods...??

"Children die from defective toys sold on eBay. People die in cars who's parts were bought on eBay. Appliances sold can cause house fires in which whole families might die.... Should eBay then not sell car parts, toys and appliances? No, of course not it's ludicrous and so is your policy towards gun components or ammunition components where not regulated by law."

Yes, it's damned absurd.

PS--I've had two positive experiences with Gunbroker.com. Two major gun purchases. Both exactly as advertised. One seller didn't ship Overnight (and freaked my FFL), but it made it here anyhow.