Matt Griffin Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Folks seem to prefer Clays and other fast powders to TG and mid-speed powders. I've loaded both, and I don't see a big difference, so what are the reasons for using Clays? H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Powder volume, generally speaking the more full the case the more consitent and accurate the load, also faster powders generally generate less recoil. So this adds up to if you want a good limited load you want to fill the case with a fast powder. While staying inside safe charges. Clays, takes up alot of room per grain, Tightgroup's burn rate is about right but takes up a small amount of room per grain. I have never tried it in .45 but based on my experience with .40 I wouldnt expect it to work that well. Light loading groups started opening up, In .40 anything above 140-150 pf works great. Based on that I would expect the larger 45 case to make this problem even worse. I would look for powders with the burn rate you want but that take up alot of room per grain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 (edited) Everything being equal (170 PF, 1.250 oal, same projectile) the recoil from the clays load feels nicer to me than the TG load. Also, with the clays load and plated or TMJ bullets, its a lot cleaner than the TG load. Though TG is a "go to" powder if I'm out of everything else. IIRC TG is a bit cheaper but not by much. pros and cons to everything.... Edited June 25, 2007 by yoshidaex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Clays has been cleaner, more consistent, less temperature sensitive, and puts far less heat in the gun than TiteGroup in every instance I have tried them both in. TiteGroup just sucks to me, I can't see why people use it but a lot of guys swear by it and all I have ever done is swear at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 HSMITH nailed it. Especially about the heat. TG does heat a gun up quick. Clays is my choice anywhere I can use it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffl Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 I shoot 4 gr of trail boss and it almost fills up the case. burns clean and I get 135 PF. I have even gone as low as 116pf when I was developing loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 I tried Clays, but apparently got a bad container. I needed a reliable load for the Florida Open, so I got out my TG and worked up a load. I needed 4.8 grains in 5" STI to make 171 PF Hope this helps!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 TiteGroup does indeed heat the gun up. It cost (last time I bought it) $98 for an eight pound keg. I've never paid $100. VV320 3 years ago cost $75 for four pounds. TiteGroup works the best for me loading for major power factor. If you down-load it it doesn't seem to be as consistant and smokes a lot more. I like it but if VV320 was as cheap I would use it, but except for being slightly cleaner (less smoky) I really don't see that much difference. FWIW dj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 I've never used Titegroup in a .45, but Clays is the cleanest and one of the cheapest options. It also smokes the least of any other powder when using cast bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 You don't say which caliber, but since this is the 45 forum I will assume 45 ACP. I have done side by side testing with Clays, Titegroup and N320. Accuracy in my gun was best with Titegroup with Clays a very close second. I have read a lot of criticism about Titegroup running hot but it didn't seem to be bad enough to discourage me from using it. It does have a tendency to smoke with lead bullets, not an issue if you use hollowpoints or totally enclosed jacketed. I liked Clays, it was relatively soft shooting and flat. My only concern was that it didn't seem to work the action of the gun too well. The slide cycle was long and lazy and I found that I was uncomfortable with it. It felt like I was waiting on the gun when doing splits. I probably could have solved this by playing about with the springs. At the end of the testing I bought 8 pounds of Titegroup. That about sums up my feelings about it. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganShootist Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 (edited) I have used only TG for the past couple years for .45 ACP. I shoot a 1911 and mostly this year... a 625 wheel gun. Here are my observations (good and bad) after loading and shooting 15 - 20K rounds with TG. ---TG is not location dependent you can point the gun in any direction and the speed will be consistant ---TG is VERY temp. sensitive .. 40 degree ammo that makes only 166 PF will make over 180 at 90 degrees ---You have to shoot mild+ or full power loads if you don't want your gun to fill with soot. I have toyed with very soft down loads and they are filthy.. literally turning a FO front sight black in only a handful of rounds ---This powder meters VERY consistant in my Dillon 550... many times the FPS won't vary more that 2 - 3 out of 6 shots. ---It takes so little powder to achieve a major PF... it's probably possible to triple chage a case-- justifing extra care ---I doubt that there is a powder that is less expensive to use in .45 ACP ---The accuracy of this powder has been VERY good ---I use mixed brass and it seems to make no difference at all Edited June 26, 2007 by MichiganShootist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 seems WST and clays work about as good as one can get for less than VV prices..WST being better with plain lead bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipplehead Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 well dont forget about VV N310...thats the nicest load I found for my singlestack...4.2 grains with a 230 grain FMG makes major in my Kart barrelled gun. Gotta agree with HSmith about TG too tempeture sensitive and damn it gets your gun hotter than hell....very inconsistant at the chrono from day to day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 with a 200 grain XTP and 5.0 grains TG at 1.200 oal and a federal 150 match primer remington cases and a very LIGHT crimp i can put 5 rounds in under an inch at 15 yards with my glock 21 shooting off sandbags. that load is also 175 pf Major in my gun Hamron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 I make Major with 4.2 gr of Clays and a 200 gr LSWC. I need 4.5 gr of TG. The Clays load just shoots softer and is a little cleaner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Clays is it in 45 ACP. Throws well too. Titegroup burns to fast in that old legacy caliber Seriously, it is a case volume thing. You'll can get some inconsistent pressures especially in the desert heat. Titegroup in the 40 is a different story. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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