Team shooting effort

[ken hebert]

I'm looking for opinions about shooting as a group. Imagine if you will, and this is for the sake of round numbers, a 20 person match. Take those 20 shooters and divide them into 5 teams randomly. Have them shoot the match together as in 5 squads. Average the hit factor of all shooters on a team into the teams hit factor for match score. The way I'm thinking this might promote the better shooters of a group to pass on more tips or help to the not so great shooters so as to improve their game, which in turn would benefit the team.

Just a rough idea, but it's been on my mind for a day or two now and I'd really like to hear what ya'll have to say about it.

[revchuck]

Ken - It'd be doable, but I don't think that it'd work if you insisted on the "random" part. To ensure an ability spread within the squad, you'd pretty much have to pick and choose the squad members. Other than that, I think it'd be cool.

[buddy_fuentes]

Ken, sounds good on the surface, but things such as how many "D" shooters and how many "A", Masters, and so on would have to be addressed. Too many "less gifted" on one squad would be a handicap.

Each club should have one day each month and have some of the better shooters put on a mini clinic. It would certainly help the attendees and the instructor would learn, too. He would have to give some thought to the lesson that he planned to teach. In so doing, he would learn by brushing up on and maybe re-evaluate his methods.

Just my thoughts.

Buddy

[BritinUSA]

I think this is a nice idea, another variation (which would require volunteers) would be to allow beginner shooters to register for a mentor program where they would shoot the match with a M or GM shooter who would give them instruction on breaking down a stage and how to shoot more effectively. It would require the mentor to take time out of their own match preparation to help the newbie but I think it could also work.

[L9X25]

I think this is a nice idea, another variation (which would require volunteers) would be to allow beginner shooters to register for a mentor program where they would shoot the match with a M or GM shooter who would give them instruction on breaking down a stage and how to shoot more effectively. It would require the mentor to take time out of their own match preparation to help the newbie but I think it could also work.

I like this plan a lot better.

USPSA matches are as much a social event as a shooting match. Even within my own club, I have folks that I enjoy shooting with and folks that I would rather not shoot with. I much prefer shooting with people that I enjoy shooting with than to be told with whom I will shoot.

YMMV

[Mick]

We used to do team stuff with an equation. Let's see if I can remember this right...

Your team could have no more than say 20 points.

A GM was worth 8 points.

An M was worth 7 points.

An A was worth 6 points and so on...

You shoot the match and see which team wins but you only get up to 4 shooters who's team can't total over 20 points.

The team with the most match points wins.

Or something like that...

Edited June 13, 2007 by Mick

[HSMITH]

Nope, I don't want to shoot on a team. Shooting and golf are two of the things I like best, and part of the reason I like them more than other things is that they are individual sports. Sink or swim, I am the only person that can affect the outcome and that is just the way I like it. I will help anyone I can, but I don't want to prop anyone else up or hold someone back in a team environment.

[shred]

I like the idea and I'm all about helping the less experienced shooters... Right up until a little while before a big match, so be careful when you schedule something like this. Winter is good.

[dcarter]

I think this is a nice idea, another variation (which would require volunteers) would be to allow beginner shooters to register for a mentor program where they would shoot the match with a M or GM shooter who would give them instruction on breaking down a stage and how to shoot more effectively. It would require the mentor to take time out of their own match preparation to help the newbie but I think it could also work.

I like this plan a lot better.

USPSA matches are as much a social event as a shooting match. Even within my own club, I have folks that I enjoy shooting with and folks that I would rather not shoot with. I much prefer shooting with people that I enjoy shooting with than to be told with whom I will shoot.

YMMV

Yes, Yes. Thats the way! As long as it was ok with the mentoring shooter. I like this idea a lot.

[Micah]

I am all about the mentoring...asking questions and answering them. I've never felt that I needed to be on a specific team though, we always try to make it us v. the cof.

That being said, using a point system sounds pretty darn cool for the occasional club match.

[Flexmoney]

It's...problematic...to give training to somebody that doesn't want it.

[JFD]

I agree that the mentoring would be great, but the team concept wouldn't be something I'd be interested in.

Like HSMITH, golf was ruined for me anytime a team was formed.

[Jim Norman]

There are people in our sport that don't help newbies?

I always thought that was a karmic requirement.

Jim

[buddy_fuentes]

Felx, we are not saying that anyone would be required to accept help. No, No, No, that would take the fun out of the game. And for that matter, we are not saying that anyone would be forced to teach, either. This is just something thrown in the air...kinda a what if.

I think it would be something that would help promote our sport and help more shooters to become competitive.

Buddy

[9x23]

Ken, you might PM moverfive about it. He has set up a team program for the North TN Practical Shtrs

club and has all the scoring & team stuff worked out on an Excel sheet. I haven't talked to him lately,

so I don't know how it's going.

9x

[ChuckS]

There are people in our sport that don't help newbies?

I always thought that was a karmic requirement.

Jim

Yeah, there is nothing more rewarding than having some new shooters witness you FUBAR a stage after saying "OK, now this is how to do this one..."

But as mentioned above, this is not a team sport.

[Jim Norman]

There are people in our sport that don't help newbies?

I always thought that was a karmic requirement.

Jim

Yeah, there is nothing more rewarding than having some new shooters witness you FUBAR a stage after saying "OK, now this is how to do this one..."

But as mentioned above, this is not a team sport.

Rule #1 Go second

Seriously, everyone can FUBAR. That doesn't make the basics wrong. We run two indoor "Practice" matches each month. New shooters get about 1-1/2 hours on the rules, safety, scoring, equipment and Safety. They then get to shoot hte match with a mentor. IF they do OK indoors they are invited to the outdoor main event. We don't tell them not to come if they are shaky, but we tactfuly suggest that they need more "Practice" before trying the big match. At the main event they are squadded with people from the indoor and and shepparded through thie match, most continue on and become regulars. Why? because we make them a part of the group as soon as possible.

Jim

[Mick]

It's...problematic...to give training to somebody that doesn't want it.

Boy isn't that the truth!

I work with 500+ "know it alls" until you show them a 2 second or less Bill Drill with 5 As.

Then they just go away because they don't want to put in the work to accomplish anything more than the basic requirement...Oh...and that's not needed in the real world.

Really? Stand toe to toe with a guy holding a knife on you and see if you don't Bill Drill him!!!!

[ChuckS]

--- snip --- until you show them a 2 second or less Bill Drill with 5 As. --- snip ---

What happened to #6 ?

[buddy_fuentes]

I don't think Ken meant completely new shooters when he started this thread. They must be guided along regardless of your thoughts. If we don't take them under out wings, our sport will perish. We need to make every effort to assure their continued participation.

I believe he was talking about a squad that would promote the better shooters teaching the less gifted shooters. The clubs I am in do that to a degree anyway. It is nothing formal, but suggestions are made from time to time as to how to shoot a course of fire. Some mistake that was made is noted "did you notice that you did _____ when you shot that stage?"

There are a group of us that practice shoot on Saturdays. Stages are set up and shot 3 to 4 times. Each one is timed and scored. The better shooters are there making suggestions on how the COF could be shot quicker. I may be wrong, but I think Ken was trying to do something similar without involving an extra day.

Buddy

[Flexmoney]

Anybody on my team that misses an Alpha get hit in the head with a rock !!!

Play time is over...maggots.

I will teach you. You WILL learn.

Now let me see your war face.

[cliffwalsh]

Even within my own club, I have folks that I enjoy shooting with and folks that I would rather not shoot with.

YOU can say that again, LEO

[ChuckS]

Anybody on my team that misses an Alpha get hit in the head with a rock !!!

Play time is over...maggots.

I will teach you. You WILL learn.

Now let me see your war face.

A freind suggested that anyone shooting a dot who gets less than a C has to pay $5 per! I guess you could also rock 'em.

[ChrisStock]

There are people in our sport that don't help newbies?

I always thought that was a karmic requirement.

Jim

Yeah, there is nothing more rewarding than having some new shooters witness you FUBAR a stage after saying "OK, now this is how to do this one..."

But as mentioned above, this is not a team sport.

Rule #1 Go second

Seriously, everyone can FUBAR. That doesn't make the basics wrong. We run two indoor "Practice" matches each month. New shooters get about 1-1/2 hours on the rules, safety, scoring, equipment and Safety. They then get to shoot hte match with a mentor. IF they do OK indoors they are invited to the outdoor main event. We don't tell them not to come if they are shaky, but we tactfuly suggest that they need more "Practice" before trying the big match. At the main event they are squadded with people from the indoor and and shepparded through thie match, most continue on and become regulars. Why? because we make them a part of the group as soon as possible.

Jim

From a noob's perspective:

I would be cool with that. It seems second nature to folks who have been doing this awhile, but for us noobs, it is damn intimidating. Range commands, safety,handling procedures...second nature to everyone who's there, but the procedures are completely foreign to those of who want to learn. I would LOVE a "mandatory" practice run or 6 before doing this in front of a bunch of people. A tactful suggestion of more practice sure as hell wouldn't offend me. I can only imagine that club vets are almost as nervous with a new shooter running and gunning for the first time. New shooters are the future of the sport, and if it is to be kept alive, it would behoove clubs to get them up to speed as soon as safely possible. That way, shooting squadded up wouldn't be so much of a handicap for the club vets, and it would be more enjoyable for everyone involved. I'll STHU now, and head back over to the range commands guide for more study. My $.02 worth of input is done.