xcount Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I have been discussing with a couple other members what the definition of "revolver friendly" is. That is, what makes a stage "attractive" to a revolver shooter and what makes a stage "unattractive"? Help us out, here, and tell us how you would define a stage as "revolver friendly". Also, how would a match be defined as "revolver friendly"? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Revolver friendly doesn't have to consist of 6 shot arrays. Targets can be placed where targets can be engaged from various sections of the course thereby limiting the standing reload as much as possible. It would require a change from the customary groupings of 4 targets per array and use more free fire zones and less boxes or props that force shooters to engage a certain amount of targets from a specific firing point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 What most people say is revolver friendly, are stages that require very few static reloads. My definition of revolver friendly is non-existant. I don't believe in revolver friendly. As long as everyone has a 6 shot revolver, everyone has to go through the same stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Revolver Friendly? I do agree with Chuck that it needsnot be arrays of six hit move six hits move. Larger shooting areas with out sweet spots where one could "easily" engage all or a large number of targets. Other targets would be visible and could be engaged but a more difficult shot. I do like to see what I can do in the strategy department. Semi autos have the advantage when it comes to making two hits on arrays of targets but it is equal with the revo when it is one hit required per target. But too much of that is boring also stage design is the key. I have been shooting predominatly a eight shot revolver in A Open class in IPSC. That's my thoughts and I don't get many of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Um, current day ISPC shooting in not revolver friendly. That is revolvers can not compette against auto's in stages over 6 rounds. If you want to shoot revolvers that's fine, everyone else with a revolver has the same challenges in a COF, but revlovers are not competive overall in IPSC shooting and I don't see a reason any stages should be cattered to accomidate them when revolvers are such a tiny pecentage of IPSC shooters. IMO It has become a "for fun" or novelty class. The attraction for revolver shooter is the same as that for auto shooters, we get to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Loves2, Revovers can't compete against autos? While it is true that there is obstacles to overcome to win against autos it is still the one behind the gun that does the shooting. I do compete against autos, neither USPSA nor IPSC recognizes my Race gun as a Revolver. The cylinder turns every time I pull the trigger but it has ports and a dot so it is an Open gun but not an Open Auto. Whether USPSA catters to the revo buch, of which I am, doesn't matter to me I will shoot because it is all fun. All Revos are not equal. even if my Revo was a six shot instead of an eight shot I would still have to shoot in open class because of the refinements that were painstakenly put into it by my friend and gunsmith. Why do I shoot a Revo? Because it takes a different type of skill, no better no worse, than the semi autos. Do I like it comming in ahead of auto shooters in a match? Yes, but I am really only shooting against myself. Hey that's two thoughts in a 24 hour period for me. I ain't so old after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawker Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Do I care if I supposedly can't compete with autos? Not really... lay out the stages and let me have at it. The bottom line is I'm competing with the other wheelgunners and myself. Since shooting a revolver, I really don't have much interest in bottomfeeders these days.... except for my Wilson I pull out once in awhile. Have fun. Shoot safe. Hawker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopalong Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Another one I tought I'd bump..........since it seems appropriate. Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ38super Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Revovers can't compete against autos? Wow I wish I knew that before shooters like "TGO" and often a few others kicked my butt against my open gun. Then I could have said something like "that can't be happening" instead of telling them "great shooting". Rob has won our Tues Nite steel match with a revolver against ALL other guns and 130 plus shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearthco Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Revolver Friendly? Thats when the other guys dont pick on you TO much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Revolver Friendly? Like, you mean, you're not going to hang out with revo shooters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 AZ38super, give TGO just a week with a slingshot and us mortals may have a chance. You're lucky to be able to shoot against him monthly. Revolver Friendly, targets and competition. Oh, nice, sunny days help. The only really unfriendly instances would be multiple action targets with more than 6 rounds and no place for a break. For instance, 2 poppers activating a swinger and 2 clamshells, a 10 shot+ gun can do it in rhythym. A SS could if it ran out the mag. A Revolver is SOL, you can't even attempt to look past the first array. It just takes the rhythym out of the string. Then you have sadistic Range Officers who make the remaining visible portions of the targets only a partial Upper A Zone. They will force all Revolvers, and many Auto shooters, to engage a 3"x6" target. A target that size at any range is difficult with a no-shoot hanging off it. Then it's worth a good chuckle when it's done at close range and that shooter forgets his scope/dot is offset a couple of inches and nails 2 solid no-shoot hits. But these are problems that will also affect SS competitors and even Open shooters. I've always found the more difficult the shots, the better I can do in the course. So, I rarely complain about a course. As long as I didn't have to set it up, or it becomes a nightmare to run others through. I say bring it on! I'm there to whup up on the course, not get chummy with it. Maybe it's my blue collar background, but I "Like" sweating thru a course. If I can be out of breath and feel all "rushed" when it's over, it's even better. My Revolver and I are on a first name basis and we both know who's boss. And she hardly ever goes to the matches with us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viggen Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 (edited) Revovers can't compete against autos? Wow I wish I knew that before shooters like "TGO" and often a few others kicked my butt against my open gun. Then I could have said something like "that can't be happening" instead of telling them "great shooting". Rob has won our Tues Nite steel match with a revolver against ALL other guns and 130 plus shooters. Rob has sometimes won Revolver class AND placed well up in the top 10 but he has not yet won Overall. The last Revolver shooter, and in my recollection the only revolver shooter to win TNS Overall was a Japanese Revolver shooter a number of years ago. I forget his name(old age setting in), maybe some of the older heads will recall. Edited July 14, 2006 by Viggen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sargenv Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 I try not to design my stages to be friendly to any one class. I recently designed a stage for a club match, 29 rounds total that had several ways to shoot. It could be seen as being revolver neutral, but it can also be Limited 10, Production, and Single stack neutral. To someone new to Revolver shooting and IPSC in general, they would likely do it with 5 or 6 reloads. It is 29 rounds and if you don't miss, could be done with an open gun without a reload (better not miss though, it has a Texas Star). Limited can shoot all it wants, where it wants and can reload in one of many places. I like this kinds of stage since it gives options. It isn't a stage that you move here, shoot 8, move there shoot 8, etc. There is opportunity to save a standing reload on a revo if you want to take the chance. It could potentially have 4 reloads or 5 depending on how it's shot. Oddly enough, I didn't have that in mind when I initially thought about it, things just kind of fell into place. I find that with the stage building experience under my belt, a lot of stages kind of evolve as I go along. I guess it depends on my mood and what I want to work on for myself that week. Vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 When I designed the Ohio match last year, I did so with the thought of it being "Revolver Friendly". I soon found out that revolver shooters, who are among the most easy going and fun loving shooters around, don't particularly care for the term revolver friendly. I found myself trying to be politically correct...when all I wanted to do was be inviting. From a shooter and stage designer perspective... I used to shoot a few rouge monthly matches. They only allowed the autos to load 8 in the gun to start (not 8+1), and 8 in any mag. Most arrays were 8 rounds. I'm not sure what term to use. I guess it may be accurate to say they were 8 round neutral. They were only friendly if you didn't miss. I like that kind of challenge. If you shoot clean, you are rewarded with not having to do a standing reload. Now, I know that revolver shooters are fond of saying that we all have 6 and we all are shooting the same course of fire...so stage design doesn't really matter. Well..yeah it does. 1. If course design is such that you have to do standing reloads, that means you have to take longer to shoot the cof. That means lower hit factors. Sure, the challenge is the "same for everybody", but what you miss out on in the low hit factor stages is the balance of DVC that our game is known for. The lower a hit factor is for a stage, the more it favors accuracy. Which is fine and great, but if that is what you get all the time...then you are missing out a bit. 2. With arrays that are 6 rounds or less, a revolver shooter gets a chance to roll/flow/move through a cof in a fluid manner...without all the stops and starts associated with doing standing reloads. That adds another level to the game. I really love that USPSA/IPSC shooting can test such a large variety of skills. Revolver shooters benefit from having to do things with 6 in many ways. But, sometimes that is a trade off. Some neutral course design can allow other skills to be tested (to a greater degree) as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 (edited) When designing a course I like to make the shooter think a bit on the walk thru, without becoming a memory stage. With my Revo I love the courses that make me decide whether I'm going to take that long/harder shot that fits into a "6" shot string, or get closer and trust I don't fumble an extra reload (but then get to hose closer, easier shots). I've always leaned towards taking the harder shots, even when I was using an auto all of the time. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it don't. Sometimes my brain bites off more than my "Trigger Finger" can handle, or maybe that's my ego that bites. Flex as for start/stops while reloading. Watching a good "A", or higher, Revo shooter doing a standing reload within a COF will show no slowing of movement. It almost adds to the sense of fluid motion. And performing a reload from that shooters view is no more disruptive than engaging a target on the move. Edited July 14, 2006 by pskys2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Revolver Friendly?Like, you mean, you're not going to hang out with revo shooters? Just buy me a beer at a match and make yourself "revolver friendly" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Revolver Friendly? Like, you mean, you're not going to hang out with revo shooters? Just buy me a beer at a match and make yourself "revolver friendly" Buying some a Beer may gain you more than a friend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underlug Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 I have been discussing with a couple other members what the definition of "revolver friendly" is. That is, what makes a stage "attractive" to a revolver shooter and what makes a stage "unattractive"? Help us out, here, and tell us how you would define a stage as "revolver friendly". Also, how would a match be defined as "revolver friendly"? Thanks. I have changed my mind from being paranoid and thinking "they" just don't want to be beaten by revolvers to "make it as tough as you want on me baby". The harder the course, the more challenge and fun. Of course, I'm not going to beat many people anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrettone Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 (edited) You know, a funny comment my buddy made comes to mind. We were both RO'ing seperate stages at the Summer Blast last weekend, and he said to me: "You guys are something else...while everybody talks about "revolver neutral", you guys just go out there and do it. Nobody shot my damn COF the same, and by the time I was done running all 20-something wheelgunners, I saw 20-something different ways to shoot it!! Hell, I didn't know which way you guys were gonna go...one guy would break left, the next guy would break right, while another yet might retreat back up range at me!!! You guys will shoot 2 targets here, then shoot cross-court to a 30 yard target to neutralize your arrays!! I was dizzy by the time it was all over and done with!!" I explained to him that each revo shooter has strengths and weaknesses, and that the better shooters play to those strengths whatever they may be, just to neutralize the COF for themselves...thats freestyle baby!!! For some guys it is long shots, for others, it is weak or strong hand, or even running to a position more than once if necessary to save reloading time. So, my take on it is, that it doesn't need to be "revolver freindly" per se...we'll make it "revolver freindly" all on our own thank you very much. I firmly believe that revolver makes you think a hell of a lot more than some of the other divisions, and allows you to shoot your own game, and see how it stacks up against everyone else. Your thoughts??? Edited July 14, 2006 by Barrettone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viggen Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 You know, a funny comment my buddy made comes to mind. We were both RO'ing seperate stages at the Summer Blast last weekend, and he said to me: "You guys are something else...while everybody talks about "revolver neutral", you guys just go out there and do it. Nobody shot my damn COF the same, and by the time I was done running all 20-something wheelgunners, I saw 20-something different ways to shoot it!! Hell, I didn't know which way you guys were gonna go...one guy would break left, the next guy would break right, while another yet might retreat back up range at me!!! You guys will shoot 2 targets here, then shoot cross-court to a 30 yard target to neutralize your arrays!! I was dizzy by the time it was all over and done with!!" I explained to him that each revo shooter has strengths and weaknesses, and that the better shooters play to those strengths whatever they may be, just to neutralize the COF for themselves...thats freestyle baby!!! For some guys it is long shots, for others, it is weak or strong hand, or even running to a position more than once if necessary to save reloading time. So, my take on it is, that it doesn't need to be "revolver freindly" per se...we'll make it "revolver freindly" all on our own thank you very much. I firmly believe that revolver makes you think a hell of a lot more than some of the other divisions, and allows you to shoot your own game, and see how it stacks up against everyone else. Your thoughts??? I think that says it about as well as anybody ever has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Revolver Friendly Adj. A field full of targets requiring no more than 50 rounds per stage. It will include but not be limited to someone furnishing coffee in the AM, water during the day, and beer when the day is done. That's revolver friendly. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayoupirate Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 I have Got to give my respect to the Revo Guys. Elliot Aysen has won our local Steel Plate match almost everytime I've shot it in the last 3 years. Elliot shoot's a revolver and only a revolver. It's no give away either. There are always a couple of USPSA Gm'a and plenty of M and A class shooters there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 see these stages: http://www.memphis-ssa.com/06state/Stages.htm lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9146gt Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Round Gun Shooter... Sounds like racing Win or loose there will be BOOZE!! Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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