Merlin Orr Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 (edited) With this specific scenario. Course description says ... Starting in box A draw and engage one target with two rounds and then while retreating backward towards cover engage the remaining target with two rounds. The question. With this description (and nothing added verbally) does the shooter have a choice as to which of the two targets he can engage or must he engage the target closest to him as he starts his retreat? Edit to add.... Neither target is armed and one is two yards further back than the other and seperated by five yards to the side. Edited March 21, 2007 by Merlin Orr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 IDPA is too complicated for me!! I thought about shooting the Florida State Match, but read the rule book, and said NO F'ing way I like shootin' as I see'm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 Quiet in the peanut gallery, Please. Don't make me open this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Quiet in the peanut gallery, Please. Don't make me open this! Seriously LOL Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 How far away are the two targets? ... how far appart are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Brass Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Sounds like an IPSC COF? IDPA does not use shooting boxes. If it is an IDPA COF, it would depend on a few more details. Are the targets the same distance from the shooter in the first position. Does one target have a knife and the other a gun? Without adding anything verbally and a simple diagram you could probably answer the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Merlin - I had to break out the rulebook: CoF 10. Targets must be engaged in tactical priority unless tactical sequence is specified. Targets within two (2) yards of each other relative to the distance from the shooter are considered to be equal in threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 I did a little edit to my original post to make it a little clearer (I hope). Sorry I did not state my question accurately. I do believe Chuck has answered me and given me the place to see it in writing..... A friend and I argued... he feels that unless stated in the CoF description that tactical order or sequence did not apply in an IDPA CoF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Edit to add.... Neither target is armed and one is several yards further back than the other. Define "several yards" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickB Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Tactical priority, unless otherwise specified. If one target is two yards closer than the other, then the closer must be engaged first. If the targets were nearly the same distance from "box A", then the shooter would have the option (if it is a "trick" stage, trying to ding you for not being able to tell the difference between twelve feet and thirteen feet, it is a bad stage design[er]). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Brass Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Merlin - I had to break out the rulebook:CoF 10. Targets must be engaged in tactical priority unless tactical sequence is specified. Targets within two (2) yards of each other relative to the distance from the shooter are considered to be equal in threat. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Merlin - I had to break out the rulebook:CoF 10. Targets must be engaged in tactical priority unless tactical sequence is specified. Targets within two (2) yards of each other relative to the distance from the shooter are considered to be equal in threat. NOW I know why I don't shoot IDPA, I don't like being threatened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topmaul Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 I quit shooting IDPA! When I was told that there is only a few ways to reload in IDPA. And I got dinged for not having 11 rounds in my gun. I just suck at IDPA. Sorry IDPA Fans, normally I would not post a negitive but in this case I made an acception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 With this specific scenario.Course description says ... Starting in box A draw and engage one target with two rounds and then while retreating backward towards cover engage the remaining target with two rounds. The question. With this description (and nothing added verbally) does the shooter have a choice as to which of the two targets he can engage or must he engage the target closest to him as he starts his retreat? Edit to add.... Neither target is armed and one is two yards further back than the other and seperated by five yards to the side. The IDPA COF rules are really quite simple Merlin. Which ever way you shot it was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayonaise Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Is the closest target right beside you? Behind you? Would engaging it first position your muzzle beyond a designated safe point? What is the scenario? Is the second target simulating the same threat advancing? Does the designer want the second target engaged from the cover position? etc..... It's just not very clear what the intent of the stage is. This is the problem often when COF's are designed in search of a scenario instead of the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Guys, it's not that hard. Unless tactical sequence is specified, targets are always to be shot in tactical priority. If you're in the open, exposed to them, you shoot near to far. If you're shooting from cover, you slice the pie exposing your torso only enough (50%) to see the next target. While slicing the pie, if you can see two targets equally in line, then engage near to far. The thing to remember is they must be 2 yards or more apart for near to far to apply. If near to far is not stated in the COF... ASK. Ask if they're 2 yards apart, or considered to be 2 yards apart. The SO will be more than happy to tell you what the MD wants on a particular stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Those IPSC guys just get frustrated when they use the "hose mentality" in IDPA and get spanked. They try to blame it on the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 I think my question is answered. Thanks for the replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrawandDuck Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 (edited) Those IPSC guys just get frustrated when they use the "hose mentality" in IDPA and get spanked. They try to blame it on the rules. Joe, that ALMOST AND I REPEAT ALMOST makes me go upstairs look through the old box of spare parts, build me a GLOCK and come play with ya'll.......I might even have to brush up on ALL THOSE RULES you all have....NOT....I'll just stick my my "SPANKING DUTIES" the 1st Saturday of the MONTH By the way has IDPA added an OPEN Division Yet? Randal Edited March 21, 2007 by DrawandDuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 (edited) Merlin - I had to break out the rulebook: CoF 10. Targets must be engaged in tactical priority unless tactical sequence is specified. Targets within two (2) yards of each other relative to the distance from the shooter are considered to be equal in threat. NOW I know why I don't shoot IDPA, I don't like being threatened I know that stage, it was called Assault at Agusta, and while neither had a gun or knife, the closer one did wield a 60 degree wedge and the farther one had the Big Dog, a 460cc driver with a hook bias...so you were indeed threatened, Z.... Edited March 21, 2007 by tightloop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 (edited) I will let you borrow one of my Glocks. The only downside to a Glock is they go bang everytime you pull the trigger. That takes all the fun out of matches. I hear that one of our shooting buds, tall guy, is getting rid of his STI Limited gun. He is starting to see the light. Edited March 21, 2007 by Joe D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Shooting with a certian GM out of dallas that shoots for glock, while shooting the tx. limited championship, I saw his glock jam to the point that he had to go to his back up & it also jammed. This was a few years ago while my sti ran perfect. ANY gun can jam, depends on the smith & if murphy is along for the ride that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 So how about the poor manner No shoots are marked ? Last match (allmost no walkthrough allowed) They had a no shoot at 90 degrees IE sideways. If you sliced the pie correctly on cover the entire head and down zero area was visable before you could see the white hands, If you looked around far enough to see which target was the threat you got a 3 second cover penalty. Actually the entire match was a choose your penalty match. After reading the rule book I noticed you can only get one cover penalty per stage next time I'll just run and gun it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 So how about the poor manner No shoots are marked ? Last match (allmost no walkthrough allowed) They had a no shoot at 90 degrees IE sideways. If you sliced the pie correctly on cover the entire head and down zero area was visable before you could see the white hands, If you looked around far enough to see which target was the threat you got a 3 second cover penalty. Actually the entire match was a choose your penalty match. After reading the rule book I noticed you can only get one cover penalty per stage next time I'll just run and gun it. Stop whining..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 (edited) This one's for FLEX Get well soon brother. e Starting in box A draw and engage one target with two rounds and then while retreating backward towards cover engage the remaining target with two rounds.The question. With this description (and nothing added verbally) does the shooter have a choice as to which of the two targets he can engage or must he engage the target closest to him as he starts his retreat? This conundrum is not quite as simple as my compatriots would have you believe. Silly gamers, I weep that they do not understand this sort of training There are no black and white rules, and as shooters have no "bill of rights" they must be prepared to defend not just themselves, but their choice of stage plans against later scrutiny. All black and white rules apply to tools granted to the TTG (Tactical Tour Guides) as a method of controlling, instructing and punishing the shooter at his discretion Clarification: Upon further scrutiny it turns out your run is subject to after action critiqe by your squad mates and anyone who even heard about your run later, not just the TTG's. Penalties may be applied up until such time as scores are final, and scores are only final when you lose. I don’t really have enough time to get into the finer points with you here, but The short answer is; It really depends on the scenario. If this is a Supermarket simulation and I have double coupons I will not likely be stuck in the over crowded "10 items or less" line and should be able to move more freely tactically, and may be able to take refuge behind an end cap display, provided, of course, that it is not a refrigerated rack of liquid based refreshments, as those may present a slip hazard should there be accurate return fire, and no one wants to contribute to the spewing of greenhouse gasses that may occur if a coolant line on an older machine is ballistically perforated. As a side note, remember that if you are intent on getting shot while shopping, plan to do so in or near the pharmacy, as it generally offers the best options for first aid, and often a photo center that could be used in the collecting of evidence for your after action report. If on the other hand the "particular arena of combat" (SLU, Berney Casey) is a parking lot then I will have to be more cognizant of petroleum based spills, stray dogs and uneven footing, but I should obviously have access to better cover, as any pre 1992 American car provides more protection from errant projectiles than a rack of Doritos, cool ranch. If it is not one of these two theaters, I would have to call "time out" to consult someone who can't really shoot but wears a photo vest and who's gun has Ashley express "big dot" sights on it, providing it's not a .40. Not as simple as you thought, was it young fellah? Well, like most at those matches, I am always happy to teach you the right way based on secrets I learned from my subscription to the "Tactics of the Month" club. It really is the gift that just keeps on givin'. As I have extensive personal knowledge as an operator in both a grocery store and a parking lot, I will, for a small fee, be happy to explain how things work in the "real world". Buuuwaaahaaahaaa sorry the humor break fell right the f^ck out, and is still rolling around on the floor. long, sighing "wooooooooooo" that felt good. I hate keeping it all pent up like that. Dayum, flex, bettuh get bettuh soon, the mice be playin' yo. Edited March 21, 2007 by dirtypool40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts