38superman Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 (edited) I am basically an iron sight shooter. I have shot Limited and Lim10 throughout my IPSC career. About six months ago, I bought an Open gun because I wanted to give the division a try. It took a little time to get it together to shoot it. I had to aquire the reloading dies, components, magazines, etc. This past weekend was the first time I shot it in a match. I shot Limited first and entered our "second gun" match with the Open blaster. This was my first try at Open vs. a Limited gun I have shot for years, yet my Open score was 7% higher. If I hadn't trashed one stage by forgetting to turn on the dot, the difference may have been even greater. Now I have a dilemma. I had planned to press on in Limited to try to push my class up before the end of the year. I was going to keep Open on the back burner until I accomplished that. Now I find myself wondering what might happen once I get really comfortable with that Open gun. Should I persue the Open division and see where it leads or stick to my original plan? I'm as confused as a baby in a topless bar. Tony Edited March 14, 2007 by tlshores Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Come over to the dark side .................. we have cookies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Tony, did you factor the possibility that, shooting the same stages again, this might have improved your scores in any case, type of gun used notwithstanding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Tony,did you factor the possibility that, shooting the same stages again, this might have improved your scores in any case, type of gun used notwithstanding? Excellent point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 That was my first thought too. I think you need more experimentation Keep shooting. Next time shoot the Open gun then the Limited gun, see what the results are in that order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted March 13, 2007 Author Share Posted March 13, 2007 Tony,did you factor the possibility that, shooting the same stages again, this might have improved your scores in any case, type of gun used notwithstanding? That's a good point but I'm not sure that's all there is to it. I have had re-shoots on stages before and actually did worse on the second try. Obviously, more experimentation is in order. Tls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scirocco38s Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 I dont know what the stages were setup like but you typically will shoot stages differently with a open gun vs a limited, ( reload points as well as shoots you might not take with the limited gun you will with and open gun). If he shot both guns the same way on all the stages( only difference being the gun he shot ) Then his difference would be a little more accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted March 13, 2007 Author Share Posted March 13, 2007 (edited) This was a special classifer match so there were four classifiers (speed shoots) and two field courses. I shot the stages exactly the same way. Interestingly, the stage results were similar with both guns. That is, if I did poorly on a stage, I did so with both guns. If I shot a stage well, I did so with both guns. I had better times on the field courses (fewer mag changes?) and higher point totals. On most of the speed shoots, times were similar but points were higher. Seem to hit the steel a lot easier with the dot. (I shaved almost two seconds off my Steely Speed VII score with the open gun). Several of the guys on my squad remarked that I just looked smoother shooting open. What does it all mean? Does it mean anything? Hard to say at this point. Way too soon to jump to conclusions. All I can say for sure is that I didn't expect it. Tls Edited March 13, 2007 by tlshores Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Shoot what you wanna shoot. Moving over to Open from the manliest of divisions, Limited , usually results in about a "class" change in placement. It obviously depends on the stages that day and what they emphasize. So if your scores run say 80% of the overall match winner with a Limited gun, moving to open, especially after going through the stages once, should result in a bump like you had. 7% change ain't a whole lot, esp at a short local match. You might be one of those guys who's wired up better for an Open gun's advantages, or maybe there was lots of steel, partials and distance.... Shoot what you wanna shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted March 13, 2007 Author Share Posted March 13, 2007 (edited) So imagine this. You've shot for years with your gun in your division and you're comfortable with it. At the end of a match someone says "Here, try this" and sticks an open blaster in your hand. You've never run open in your life but you decide to give it a try. What is your expectation? 1. I will do better 2. I will do about the same 3. I will be slower due to learning curve I chose number three. Surprise!!! Tls Edited March 13, 2007 by tlshores Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Yeah, I'm like you, a manly Limited shooter.... I FEEL slower with a borrowed open gun, but on long, tough shots it just is an advantage. Think how fast you'll be once you feel like you are smoking with the dot gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moverfive Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 yeah, one match doesn't exactly answer all questions...... .....but when you shot tight squeeze with no dot (darn rookie, forgot to turn it on), he almost got all of his hits. That tells me you are able to point the gun very well. And no, the shooting the stages again wasn't really a key factor - you were shooting faster and with more confidence with the open gun. We just now got to get your grip more consistent!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 There is alot to be learned from shooting Open. When I came back to Limited after a year of shooting Open for the first time, I was a much better shooter (as far as overall skill set). Give it a try for a while and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Hello: What about that the open gun is easier to shoot? There I said it and let the flames begin ;>). Once you get used to the dot and the lack of recoil and sound. They are easier to shoot from what I have seen and been told. I shoot Limited so I can say that HeHe. Thanks Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Shoot what you wanna shoot. Stop overanalyzing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 (edited) I shoot faster with my open gun than my limited gun, especially far steel and moving, BUT so does everyone else... Since this is a for fun sport, I'm in the shoot what you want camp. Right now I'm shooting Limited because that is where the competition is. Edited March 13, 2007 by Loves2Shoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Open guns are just plain easier to shoot. More accurate & faster = better score. But the downside is ........ they're easier FOR YOUR OPPONANTS TO SHOOT TOO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 The major difference for me so far is that the hits are there with the Open gun more so than with a Limited gun. Tight shots and steel are a world easier and faster with the open gun but up close hosing I am slower with it than I am with an iron sight gun. I am placing much higher with the open gun, and it is just a hoot to shoot the stages with. The only downside for me is the noise, even with plugs and muffs the noise is bothersome. Thank goodness I didn't build a shorty or port the barrel!! I am going to stick with the open gun for a while, the dot is really teaching me things about my shooting and doing it in a hurry. When I pick up the Limited gun again I know I will be a better shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adiksaputok Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 shooting open is addictive..............speed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted March 13, 2007 Author Share Posted March 13, 2007 (edited) Many good replies to this thread but I think a few may have missed the point. If you made the statement: "An open gun is faster". That is almost universally accepted as truth. Most people would agree with you. If you stepped up and said: "An open gun is easier", I wonder if there would be as much agreement. Most likely you would get a few arguments. I recently saw some threads where people wrote that they came back to open and struggled. The interesting thing was that it seemed to come so easily. When I bought the gun I let it sit on the back burner longer than I really had to. I got in no hurry to jump into another division because I just wasn't looking forward to the learning curve. Seems the curve may not be as steep as I thought. <---- The point. Tls Edited March 13, 2007 by tlshores Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ38super Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 The big difference between open and limited is the dot and that unless you are using a Doctor it sits up higher than standard sights. Most people have a problem with getting the proper dot alignment. What this shows is you already have excellent control with proper grip, trigger control, stance and so on built into a solid memory base that it was not a major problem finding the dot (at least once it was on). Now this could have been first time luck but I doubt it. This is not to say you will not have a glitch here and there finding the dot but it seems to flow for you so go with it. If you like it then shoot the dot and have fun. I shoot open because I have bad eyes and it's easier for me plus it has the cool factor.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipscbob Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Shoot whatever is more FUN for you. This is all about FUN isn't it? Yes, the dot generally makes an open gun faster and easier to shoot well. If you want to really get an eye opener try a few different guns with the various dot options such as a C-More, Aimpoint tube, and a Dr. I am betting that in a side by side comparison, you will choose the Aimpoint. The dot is much closer to the slide with both the Aimpoint and the Dr. sight and therefore is setup more like your limited guns. If you add in the Aimpoints resistance to the dot washing out in bright sunlight and the fact that the optics quality and rock solid adjustments are much better than the C-More you have a clear winner. Do an honest assessment of the options and you may be surprised by what you find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 (edited) Shoot whatever is more FUN for you. This is all about FUN isn't it? Yes, the dot generally makes an open gun faster and easier to shoot well. If you want to really get an eye opener try a few different guns with the various dot options such as a C-More, Aimpoint tube, and a Dr. I am betting that in a side by side comparison, you will choose the Aimpoint. The dot is much closer to the slide with both the Aimpoint and the Dr. sight and therefore is setup more like your limited guns. If you add in the Aimpoints resistance to the dot washing out in bright sunlight and the fact that the optics quality and rock solid adjustments are much better than the C-More you have a clear winner. Do an honest assessment of the options and you may be surprised by what you find. Not really... PS I'm an Open Shooter, but the last 2 years or so I've been concentrating on Limited and to a lesser extent on Production. I feel that the Open gun will help your iron sighted pistol shooting, it shows you what the sights (dot) are doing. That's something you don't always see with a Limited gun. I also feel the Limited gun helps your Open shooting, Limited teaches you to stop the gun on the target and fire the shot. Sometimes we try to cheat a bit with the Open gun and let it "streak" across the target, blasting all the while. Edited March 14, 2007 by GeorgeInNePa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Regarding the post on C-More, Aimpoint etc. I just tried an Aimpoint on one of my open guns with the following observations: The Aimpoint is very easy to find the dot in bright sun especially when it is behind you. It is also eaiser to find the dot from awkward positions. The problem I see with the Aimpoint is the reduction in your field of view when transitioning from target to target. You tend to get tunnel vision looking through the tube. The C-More lets you see above and around it without loosing sight of the dot. You must have a better draw and consistant grip with the C-More inorder for the dot to be on target immediately. The Aimpoint is probably eaiser for a new shooter because of the tube/dot relationship. I think it will ultimately keep you from being as fast as you could be with the C-More or Doctor. The advantage of the Doctor is the lower relationship of the sight to the bore. I put the C-More back on my gun and will continue to practice my draw to eliminate problems finding the dot. Just my opinion and observation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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