Kevin Kline Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Anyone know of any LEO dept's that carry a CZ (of any kind) as their duty gun, in any capacity? Or that authorize a CZ for duty? Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 You might find a small dept. that has very liberal standards that allow them but most of your bigger dept. actually issue the weapon. In 17 years as an FI never seen one used in LE except as an off duty gun. CZ was generally viewed as one notch above a davis arms in the past. They have gotten better but I still wouldn't bet the farm on one when there are so many proven guns out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Propaganda from the CZ website: CZ 75 B is used by more Govern-ments, Militaries, Police and Security agencies than any other pistol in the world. The CZ 75 is quite possibly the perfect pistol. That being said I don't know any US based agencies using them but they are definitely far superior to any Davis semi auto and do not deserve to be compared to them. I would go so far as to say that the CZ is still one of the absolute best buys in a semi automatic. -ld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kline Posted January 7, 2007 Author Share Posted January 7, 2007 I agree ld, I think it is a great buy, maybe the best for the money. I know there arent going to be hardly any dept that issue it, but I was just wannting any info guys might have had of who might carry it for paper/info I was doing. I dont think you can compare them to a Davis. My P01 and SP01 have gone through hell and done things my Walther's could never do and they did it with 1000% reliability. They are also more accurate than any other semi auto I have ever shot, with the occasional exception (ie good group from me) bench resting of my STI's. I also think that most dept like a .40 or bigger and CZ doesnt appear to have a lot of options for the .40's, at least not for LEO's. I do carry my P01 as my off duty gun and love it, completely comfortable with it. If anyone hears of any dept's, small or big or whatever, that carry it, let me know, t Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan W Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Never heard of one either Kevin and I've been in the business for 21 years. There are probably several that would allow CZ's for off duty carry but I've never even seen a dept approved duty list that included any CZ - I've seen several examples of policies from all over the country. Good luck with your search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Contact Angus Hobdell at www.ghostholster.com. I believe there are some agencies issuing or approving the CZ now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 You might find a small dept. that has very liberal standards that allow them but most of your bigger dept. actually issue the weapon. In 17 years as an FI never seen one used in LE except as an off duty gun. CZ was generally viewed as one notch above a davis arms in the past. They have gotten better but I still wouldn't bet the farm on one when there are so many proven guns out there. Out of curiosity, what would take to "prove" a gun by your way of thinking. I'm only asking because a CZ won the world shoot, places consistently in the top spots as USPSA national events, is the second most copied designed in the world after the 1911, and it and its varients have been used my many military institutions, including the IDF. I don't know if it suitable for US police issue, as I'm not sure what the requierments would be, but I am curious what you expect from a gun you would bet the farm on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 (edited) You might find a small dept. that has very liberal standards that allow them but most of your bigger dept. actually issue the weapon. In 17 years as an FI never seen one used in LE except as an off duty gun. CZ was generally viewed as one notch above a davis arms in the past. They have gotten better but I still wouldn't bet the farm on one when there are so many proven guns out there. Out of curiosity, what would take to "prove" a gun by your way of thinking. I'm only asking because a CZ won the world shoot, places consistently in the top spots as USPSA national events, is the second most copied designed in the world after the 1911, and it and its varients have been used my many military institutions, including the IDF. I don't know if it suitable for US police issue, as I'm not sure what the requierments would be, but I am curious what you expect from a gun you would bet the farm on? Very good point Vlad. As to US police issue, I frankly do not see many departments rushing to issue our beloved 1911s to PATROL OFFICERS (not talking about the LAPD SWAT/SERT team here, but actual duty officers). Also, the US is not the only country w/ police & crime in the world. Again, consider this fact from the CZ-USA.com site: "CZ 75 B is used by more Governments, Militaries, Police and Security agencies than any other pistol in the world." Cosidering that fact, it appears that those who viewed the CZ as comparable to any davis arms product were woefully mis-informed. Moreover, CZs are of such high quality that even Colt once prepared to market the CZ under its own name until Colt fell on hard economic times (i.e. the Colt Z-40). Armalite, like the Israel Defense Force, recogizes the supperiority of design and is distributing a new CZ clone marketed towards law enforcement. Even the late Jeff Cooper (R.I.P.) recognized the brilliance of the CZ design. Besides, what other design has a history of handling 9mm Major? Edited January 8, 2007 by Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Not to dog pile on Chris too much but Wikipedia references the Jeff Cooper connection when they write Colonel Jeff Cooper, long-time advocate of the Colt 1911, hailed it as the best-designed double-action autoloader available. -ld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itchy Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Not to hijack the thread, but there is municipality in the Los Angeles area that issues STIs to their officers. We had a guide rod break on one last month. I wish I could remember which agency it was. He was complaining about the quality of the gun. I wanted to trade him straight across for my Beretta. LAPD's Metro Units can carry 1911s. They carry both hollowpoint and a magazine of ball ammunition. Itchy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kline Posted January 9, 2007 Author Share Posted January 9, 2007 Never heard of one either Kevin and I've been in the business for 21 years. There are probably several that would allow CZ's for off duty carry but I've never even seen a dept approved duty list that included any CZ - I've seen several examples of policies from all over the country. Good luck with your search. Yeah Bryan, That's about what I figured, but thought Id toss it up and see what came down. In all my years, I havent heard of one yet either. Although, Ive heard of numerous that would allow it off duty. I carry my P01 off duty and am very happy with it. I did hear that possibly that there is an agency or 2 in Kentucky that hands out the 75 BD. Still waiting to hear a dept name on that one. Kellyn, I'll get a hold of Angus at the Shot Show when I see him and ask him there. Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjohn Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Don't know about LEO, but the 1st time I handled any CZ75 variant was during the foreign weapons course at Ft. Irwin during the early 90's. The instructors there said their samples had never had a single part break in well of 50K rounds. 2nd time was a buddy's who carried it while an 18D, and could have carried anything he wanted. At the time they weren't readily available commerically. My trigger return spring went south in 2K and who knows how many dry firings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 "CZ 75 B is used by more Governments, Militaries, Police and Security agencies than any other pistol in the world." ????????? The number of agencies may be more but I wouldn't think the CZ75 has a better acceptance than other more popular pistols such as the Glock etc.... Last I heard was that 65%+ of the US PDs allow the use of Glocks or issue them. Working for an agency that issues Glock I would agree that it is a better choice than a DA/SA pistol with no decocking lever/safety. We have 550+ Officers and have found the Glock teaches easily with all types of Officers using them, our accidents are very minimal (knock on wood) and the pistol works well for a variety of folks. It wasn't that good when we allowed SA pistols like the 1911s and Brownings etc.... I've been doing Academy classes for us and another Academy for 18 years and see a distinct trend toward Glocks especially .40s.. I haven't seen a SA or gun like a CZ in years. How many CZs are seen in competition vs. Glocks???? I like the CZ but it's a very limited thing.... My Glock has run for years without any breakage.... Mick A27257 p.s. I carried a Colt 1911 until they MADE me switch!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBudd Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 How many CZs are seen in competition vs. Glocks????I like the CZ but it's a very limited thing.... My Glock has run for years without any breakage.... Mick A27257 p.s. I carried a Colt 1911 until they MADE me switch!!! Actually, CZ's are making inroads in Production, at least locally. We have a number of shooters using them at the local matches. Not as many as Glocks, but some. I'm seeing a greater variety of guns in Production: Glocks, XDs, M&Ps, and yes CZs. That is the nice thing about Production - no one platform dominates. Consider the Nationals; 1st was an XD, 2nd was a CZ, and 3rd was a Glock. Does that mean that a CZ or XD is better than a Glock? No. It just means that the guns will do the job if the shooter does. Of course, this has nothing to do with the original thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derwoodski Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 I think to find actual working units that use the CZ, one would have to travel "Across the Pond" For many years after its design, it was not even available in this country, as were many Eastern block firearms. The CZ-75 is the "1911" of Europe, and you can see its design cues in EAA, Tangfolio, Jericho etc. pistols. The poll of the USPSA production nationals has shown almost 20% of shooters use the CZ, tangfolio, or EAA witness(they are lumped into one catageory. They are accurate, Reliable, and reasonably priced (although prices have begun to increase due to increased popularity.) Go to Europe and look on some LEO hips and you will sure to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 I said they have gotten better. The ones from the early 90's were bad. Hell the AK is the most widely used military rifle but that doesn't me I'd use one. For the money they are a decent gun....but if your life is only worth 250 bucks then by all means carry a $250 gun. I've seen to many of them puke at the range for me to bet my life on one. Sorry to shoot somebody's sacred cow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eager Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 The standard CZ (-75 family) requires dropping the hammer on a live round to access the DA feature. Alternatively it could be carried cocked-&-locked. Neither of these options are popular with LEO agencies. CZs with decockers are relatively new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 How many CZs are seen in competition vs. Glocks???? I like the CZ but it's a very limited thing.... My Glock has run for years without any breakage.... Mick A27257 p.s. I carried a Colt 1911 until they MADE me switch!!! Actually, CZ's are making inroads in Production, at least locally. We have a number of shooters using them at the local matches. Not as many as Glocks, but some. I'm seeing a greater variety of guns in Production: Glocks, XDs, M&Ps, and yes CZs. That is the nice thing about Production - no one platform dominates. Consider the Nationals; 1st was an XD, 2nd was a CZ, and 3rd was a Glock. Does that mean that a CZ or XD is better than a Glock? No. It just means that the guns will do the job if the shooter does. Of course, this has nothing to do with the original thread. Go a step farther and count the numbers of the indiviual types and see where those numbers are......We have a bunch of local IDPA crossovers that all had Glocks and while Im not really a Glock fan, I'd admit they have taken quite a bit of the game over... I'll also admit the CZ and clones are doing well but for the average "people with guns" oppossed to "shooters" I rather they have Glock. The first time I saw Mr Mink "decock" his CZ without a decocking device I knew there will eventually be a problem. Watch him decock with the right hand only! Some ROs are going to have a fit!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjohn Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 I said they have gotten better. The ones from the early 90's were bad. Hell the AK is the most widely used military rifle but that doesn't me I'd use one. For the money they are a decent gun....but if your life is only worth 250 bucks then by all means carry a $250 gun. I've seen to many of them puke at the range for me to bet my life on one. Sorry to shoot somebody's sacred cow. I'll take an AK over an AR series any day in real world conditions. Why does SOCOM use so many M14s and HK sub guns? Glock 35 fired out of battery during last Sunday's match, blew out the magazine and extractor rendering it unserviceable. This makes three Glock “kabooms” I’ve witnessed in shooting IPSC for two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Hmm .. I guess I should throw away my military surplus 1996 CZ. Of course, it hasn't blown up yet, nor has any other CZ I have ever heard of, but I've seen a few a glocks do so. It isn't about a sacred cow, it is about not spreading bad information and misconceptions further then we need to. I like Glocks just fine, I like 1911's, and I like pleanty of other designs. I'm not however fond of people calling a solid and succefull gun junk without real experience wih one. I've been shooting my CZ for some time, reading forums, and talking with people, yet this is the first time I've ever heard anyone say that the early 90's guns where anything but normal. Could you maybe provide some references to those junk 90's CZ's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirbyAU Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 I guess you're talking LEO in the USA ? The CZ75 has been a long time issue hangun with the PLO and most Eastern European states when they were given the option rather than the common Makarov. Seen the pistol in use by Spetznaz troops on TV quite a bit. I'd rate them up there with the BHP. We have 2 CZ 75's as training pistols in our club. They only require changing the slide stop once a year. They have given reliable service for more than 10 years and 10's of thousands of rounds. Sure take a lickin' and keep on tickin' Kirby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 said they have gotten better. The ones from the early 90's were bad. Hell the AK is the most widely used military rifle but that doesn't me I'd use one. For the money they are a decent gun....but if your life is only worth 250 bucks then by all means carry a $250 gun. I've seen to many of them puke at the range for me to bet my life on one. Sorry to shoot somebody's sacred cow. glock is worth 379.00, guess thats all i value my life at. we have several female officers in our dept that carry CZ, they are a fine weapon and have been around for over 30 years(the CZ 75) the women like them because they have smaller hands, are heavier and kick less. I would rather have my glock because i trust it... i know it.. we can carry whatever we want(long as its centerfire, holds 6 rounds and made by a respectable manufacturer) i choose a glock because frankly Ive seen too many les baer, wilson and ed brown top-o-the line 1911s puke at the range. I like the glock, but would not have any problems using a CZ if i had one. Harmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 We are off topic...and bridging the forum rules. (so, don't post any more of the "this vs. that stuff". ) Admin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
half inch groups Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 (edited) Just edited my whole post after reading flexes post.. darnit! I'll just say that I had a Baby eagle 9mm. and it was a very accurate, reliable gun. only problem is the weight. I had a compact and I swear it weighs more than my open gun! may attest for its accuracy..I have never seen a tangfolio gun in duty use ever, but i agree it should be. It seems the gvt is stuck on glock, berretta and now HK from what I was told by my Narc/ LAPD pistol, shotgun and beanbag trainer buddy. He still carries his 4506 though. Edited January 10, 2007 by half inch groups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 We have a local dept near here that used to issue Springfield P-9s. About 10 officers. They switched to Glock 45s a couple of years ago. I bought a full size and a compact P-9 from them when they switched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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