2007 Single Stack Nationals

[Shaka]

It felt like I was around nothing but like minded people. The most enjoyable part for me as I told many was the fact that I heard nothing but the cadence of 1911's. I have had a problem listening to the cadence of open and limited guns being a newer shooter. Without a doubt the greatest match I have shot in my short USPSA career. I can't wait for next years match and can't fathom you guys making it better.

Till next year...

[jripper]

(3) That psycho RO that always insists on wearing his cocked and locked .45 and kevlar vest throughout the match (it's not the loaded gun that scares me, it's that disturbing facial tic that seems to be worse every year...), while the NROI guys cruise past on their golf carts and ATVs and pretend not to notice.

I'm sorry, I feel everyone is entitled to their opinion, but what does a facial tic have to do with the RO violating rules or not. And, what makes him psycho? The loaded gun, the vest, or the tic, or some other unstated trait.

Lets address the issues...

The vest... I've shot the dark house quit a few times, in various matches, and I know of at least one other RO who has worn a vest while working it. Weird things can happen during a match, and people get stressed and make mistakes during the day light. Add darkness to it, and it complicates the issue. Plus, you are shooting at steel plates at close distances, with steel backstops. Even in the most well constructed bullet trap, bullets can come back out. The vest is probably not a bad idea.

The tic... I don't see what this has to do with anything. Facial tics don't = insanity, psychosis, or any such thing. We are not in Junior High, and in some sort of "click". Unless a physical disability makes some one unsafe to handle a gun, we should not exclude him from our game.

What will it be next: Your left leg is 1 inch shorter than your right, I don't want you shooting/working our matches. Your hair style is "funny", you have a scar on your face, etc.

The loaded gun... This could be a rule issue, I don't know. However, did you ask the RO why he was carrying a loaded gun?

Why not ask? If he got mad, irrate, etc, then, by all means, go to the Range Officals.

Is he Law Enforcement? Is he on call? Is it loaded? What is his thinking? Does any of this really matter? I don't know, but at least you may have an explanation. And, if not, at least you have addressed the individucal directly, instead of posting insults on a forum.

Of course, you could say that you were afraid of being treated poorly by the RO if you said anything.

You do realize, that no doubt, he will hear of this post, and will probably not be real happy.

And since he has worked all of the last 9 SSC I shot, he will probably be there again.

And, it would seem you want to go to another one...

And now, instead of addressing him directly and personally, you have posted insults on the internet for the whole world to see, making fun of something he can not help.

I know you where trying to make a joke of the situation, and you were expressing your opinions on the matter.

However, you are making accusations about his mental state, picking on a physical disability/trait, and don't really explain any of your reasoning for your comments in the first place.

]

I could see the loaded gun bother you, but you did not come out and say it was that.

If this was a joke, in my opinion it was in poor taste.

If this was about the vest, I think that is debatable.

If this was about the loaded gun, it could be a good point.

Or was this about something else?

You really don't tell us.

The bare essential item necessary in our sport is under attack every day, our guns.

Bickering, and name calling within our organization does nothing to help us in any way, and just adds to the anti-gun fire...

We want to stay united. Numbers, voting power, money, those are the things that matter to the political powers. Fighting within the organization just pulls us farther apart.

Please think before posting.

If you have a problem at a match, with an RO, or staff, or other shooter, address it through the proper channels, while at the match.

It's one thing to say an RO was not perfessional, was rude, violated rules, etc, is one thing, posting insults about physical disabilitys is a whole other.

I promise you one thing, if, later in your life, you develope a "tic", or other physical problem, as long as you are safe while shooting, I will always allow you to shoot on my squad, or at my range, or in my match.

Edited May 3, 2007 by jripper

[ExtremeShot]

Regarding the big magwell, it's also my feeling that they shouldn't have been allowed. ...dang, reloading into the skinny single stack magwell is probably the biggest problem/time eater there is with single stack. How can you be a hard ass on other things, but then let 4 or 5 get away with a huge magwell?

DM

(3) That psycho RO that always insists on wearing his cocked and locked .45 and kevlar vest throughout the match (it's not the loaded gun that scares me, it's that disturbing facial tic that seems to be worse every year...), while the NROI guys cruise past on their golf carts and ATVs and pretend not to notice.

(

Edited May 3, 2007 by ExtremeShot

[jripper]

What happend to the rest of your post? ...that was some good stuff?

Regarding the big magwell, it's also my feeling that they shouldn't have been allowed. ...dang, reloading into the skinny single stack magwell is probably the biggest problem/time eater there is with single stack. How can you be a hard ass on other things, but then let 4 or 5 get away with a huge magwell?

DM

(3) That psycho RO that always insists on wearing his cocked and locked .45 and kevlar vest throughout the match (it's not the loaded gun that scares me, it's that disturbing facial tic that seems to be worse every year...), while the NROI guys cruise past on their golf carts and ATVs and pretend not to notice.

(

There, fixed my post,

Not real familiar with the online tools here.

Sorry.

Joel

[ima45dv8]

So far, the only rule/covenant he MIGHT have violated is the possibility of a loaded gun. If someone does have information confirming the gun was loaded, it should be addressed directly with the match management and/or NROI.

Comments of a personal nature regarding this RO don't belong here.

[ExtremeShot]

I believe PASA is a cold range.

So far, the only rule/covenant he MIGHT have violated is the possibility of a loaded gun. If someone does have information confirming the gun was loaded, it should be addressed directly with the match management and/or NROI.

Comments of a personal nature regarding this RO don't belong here.

[Carmoney]

On the the other issue. Once it was pointed out to me it was dealt with. PASA is a cold range during USPSA events. Nuff said.

Jay

This is the response I was hoping to see. I'm satisfied it was handled correctly by match staff. Issue resolved. Nuff said.

[LPatterson]

I am not an RO and I sure don't know all the rules etc. But could yelling unofficial range commands like that at a shooter during the COF somehow be considered interference by the RO and be grounds for a reshoot? I realize he was trying to warn of a potential safety situation. But making commands that are not appropriate for USPSA competition could very well confuse and distract a shooter into any number of errors or violations.

From the USPSA rulebook:

8.6 Assistance or Interference

8.6.1 No assistance of any kind can be given to a competitor during a

course of fire, except that any Range Officer assigned to a stage

may issue safety warnings to a competitor at any time. Such

warnings will not be grounds for the competitor to be awarded a

reshoot.

In this situation. the muzzle and trigger command is quite appropriate. ROs are trained to warn the shooter to prevent an unsafe action. The rules specifically allow a safety warning as was quoted. "If the shooter is becoming unsafe warn them. If they are unsafe, stop them and DQ ."

Many shooter do not like the warning for two reasons. One they think they are done too much and secondly it "breaks" their concentration. Personally, I feel that is incorrect thinking. I would much rather get a warning if I am close rather than stop you're done with no warning. Just my 2 cents.

On the the other issue. Once it was pointed out to me it was dealt with. PASA is a cold range during USPSA events. Nuff said.

Jay

When I went to the 2003 Race Gun Nationals as an RO, the first comment from the CRO is that we were only to use commands as they were written in the rules. No shooter ready, slide forward, hammer down, do you understand the course of fire or any other local wording. He said it was because we were going to have foreign shooters who might not understand any other comments/commands. People are always saying that IPSC/USPSA shooting is freestyle so I am not going to tell a shooter that he is about to do something that could send them home. How many times have GM shooters made more than 1 step with their finger in the trigger guard without the RO yelling finger like they might to a D class shooter. Just as we expect every shooter to have the same course of fire to shoot I believe they should have the same opportunity to screw up and if they do I am not going to warn them first.

[dirtypool40]

MODS please split this off into it's own RO thread

[Supershooter]

Check this out. MY MATCH AND EX WIFE IN THE NEWS

http://www.shootingwire.com/

FEATURE

Competitions & Conclaves

In the land of the traditional (single-stack) 1911-style pistol, there is a single name that speaks of royalty in the shooting world: Leatham. After the recent USPSA Single Stack Nationals/1911 Society Single Stack Classic at Pike-Adams Sportsman's Alliance Range, located near Barry, Illinois, there's really not much chance anyone could refute the claim.

Rob Leatham a/k/a The Great One

Shooting in a way that belies his climbing age and graying hair and beard, Robbie Leatham proved that his old moniker "The Great One" isn't quite ready retirement. Leatham scored an average of 94.61 across 14 stages of competition to claim an unprecedented thirteenth -consecutive - Single Stack title. Across those fourteen stages, incidentally, TGO managed to fire five perfect stages with the lowest stage "only" 77.28 for his winning score of 1063.0829.

Runner-up Dave Sevigny finished just over forty-four points behind Leatham at 1018.8333, with Michael Voigt in third, followed by Ted Puente and Michael Seeklander. Doug Koenig, Angus Hobdell, Taran Butler, Phil Strader and Shannon Smith rounded out the men's top ten.

But a single shooter does not a dynasty make. Enter Mrs. Rob "Kippy" Leatham, wife of TGO and a three time USPSA Nationals Champion. With her 46th place overall finish, she took the women's title and putting both Single Stack titles under the same roof for 2007. 2006 champion Julie Goloski finished in second in the ladies' competition and in 62nd place overall.

The Single Stack Classic was born in 1994 when pistolsmith Richard Heinie and USPSA Illinois Section Coordinator Russell Cluver were talking about the equipment used in competition shooting. As the 1911 pistol had dominated IPSC and many matches for years, eventually giving way to the newer higher-capacity models, they decided there might be a place for a match using only the classic (single-stack) 1911 pistol and concealed carry holsters and magazine pouches of the type that would be worn all day in real world scenarios. In other words, a shooting contest and not an equipment event.

They also decided the course of fire for the even should have stages using no more than three magazines (again, based on the pistol and pair of magazines commonly carried in daily situations). Other than those provisos, the rules would be IPSC standards.

In 1996 the 1911 Society was formed to promote the classic 1911 - and ensure the success of the very popular match. In 2006, the Single Stack Classic also became the first USPSA Single Stack Nationals, helping USPSA launch their Single Stack Division.

PASA Park didn't relax after the event concluded. From there, it was time for an Intermedia RoundTable. At these events, about 50 editorial-types from Intermedia publications and television productions gather with industry guests who, under longstanding agreements not to tell everything they've seen until given dates are allowed to see what will be the "latest and greatest" products the manufacturers will be rolling out in their next wave of new products. The meetings are one way the media can be prepared for the new products. With extremely long editorial lead times, it's difficult for the gun magazines to be prepared without these arrangements.

This gathering, however, had a twist, or more accurately a surprise for all present.

The Wedding

PASA Park founder and ramrod Dick Metcalf surprised the gathering by holding a wedding. His own. Metcalf took the occasion of the roundtable to marry Kathy Lumley. In addition to being his next door neighbor, Lumley helped found PASA Park with Metcalf twenty-five years ago and works as a production associate on Personal Defense TV and Guns & Ammo TV. In other words, it was an extended family affair.

The wedding party included Jim Bequette, Intermedia VP/Editorial Driector, as best man and, in a role decidedly against type, "Sheriff" Jim Wilson serving as Kathy's "Maid of Honor."

When the pastor asked "Who gives this woman," Wilson reportedly waved his Stetson to encompass all the gathered writers and industry figures and said "All of us do."

Regarding the Colt: Wilson said it wasn't necessary to keep the groom from running, but to keep the "unruly journalists in line." It appears to have worked.

We add our best wishes to the Metcalfs.

--Jim Shepherd

[Carmoney]

Russell, I never knew you were married to Kippi!!

[Supershooter]

Russell, I never knew you were married to Kippi!!

I should be so lucky

Read a little farther down

Edited May 8, 2007 by Supershooter

[Gary1911A1]

Hopefully this picture will appear. The ugly one in the center is me. The SSC is my favorite match.

[shopgun]

I have been to 12 Single stacks and had something happen to me at the 07 that never has before. On stage 11, 4 bill drill, my score was transposed with a squad mates. He zero'd the stage, I did'nt. My score was entered under his name, his under mine. We both had to leave immediately after the match, so the first I knew about it was when the stage results were posted on USPSA. Cost me 22 places on the final standings. I know nothing official can be done. But what really disappoints me is that I e-mailed Bill Davis on 4-30 and Russel Cluver a few days later to explain the situation and asked who to contact in hopes this won't happen again. Niether of these gentlemen has found the time to contact me. That sucks. Jim Shema

[Supershooter]

I have been to 12 Single stacks and had something happen to me at the 07 that never has before. On stage 11, 4 bill drill, my score was transposed with a squad mates. He zero'd the stage, I did'nt. My score was entered under his name, his under mine. We both had to leave immediately after the match, so the first I knew about it was when the stage results were posted on USPSA. Cost me 22 places on the final standings. I know nothing official can be done. But what really disappoints me is that I e-mailed Bill Davis on 4-30 and Russel Cluver a few days later to explain the situation and asked who to contact in hopes this won't happen again. Niether of these gentlemen has found the time to contact me. That sucks. Jim Shema

Jim,

I never received your email. My filter may have blocked it. But there isn't really anything that can be done at this time. You have an hour to check your scores after they are posted. After that they are official. I'm really sorry this happened and I wish I could change it but I can't. Maybe your score cards were mixed up when you shot the stage. Always check to make sure it is yours when you sign the score card. With two shooters on the line like there was on stage 11 the RO may have had the wrong persons score card.

I'm just guessing of course but I could see it happening. I'm really sorry if that was the case.

[shopgun]

Russel, thanks for the reply. I did get the right scorecard back, got my copy sitting here in front of me . It has my correct time and score. Beats me as to how that could happen. My main concern was getting a heads up to the stats people so they could possibly review procedures to prevent a reoccurance. Thanks again, Jim

[Supershooter]

Russel, thanks for the reply. I did get the right scorecard back, got my copy sitting here in front of me . It has my correct time and score. Beats me as to how that could happen. My main concern was getting a heads up to the stats people so they could possibly review procedures to prevent a reoccurance. Thanks again, Jim

Your carbon copy would show what you shot. But the white orginal would have the sticker with the competitors name and shooters number on it. That's the one I think was mixed up.

You may have been scored one that didn't have your name on it and the other shooter scored on yours. I can see it happening.

[Flexmoney]

That is a good reason/example to have the timer RO ask the clipboard RO to read off (of the scoresheet that is on the clipboard) who is up.

I like doing that ever if it sounds weird. Even if I know the shooter...etc.

And, as a shooter, I like to check that my name is on the scoresheet before I sign it. I can recall at least two times at major matches that it wasn't (one was a Nationals).

[ExtremeShot]

My main concern was getting a heads up to the stats people so they could possibly review procedures to prevent a reoccurance. Thanks again, Jim

I sympathize with you. I screwed up last year and didn't see that I was scored minor instead of major. However, it was MY fault that I didn't hang around the hour after the match to make sure everything was OK.

The ROs have a crap load of stuff to worry about. It's YOUR responsibility to make sure that you have the correct sheet. That's why you sign it. Additionally, as I said, you have the hour after the match to check things out. I'm sorry to say it, but you have only yourself to blame.

Darren

Edited May 9, 2007 by ExtremeShot

[ChuckS]

That is a good reason/example to have the timer RO ask the clipboard RO to read off (of the scoresheet that is on the clipboard) who is up.

I like doing that ever if it sounds weird. Even if I know the shooter...etc.

And, as a shooter, I like to check that my name is on the scoresheet before I sign it. I can recall at least two times at major matches that it wasn't (one was a Nationals).

Yup, when I am on the clipboard, I call shooter, on-deck shooter, and in-the-hole shooter even if the shooter is already on the stage. That way I know I am filling in the proper score sheet. And, as Flex says, check the sheet before you sign it and, if you have time before the snivel hour, calculate your stage hit factors and compare against the posting. Your HF is what you are graded by and will show up any discrepancies.

Like Ronnie used to say " Trust, but verify"

Later,

Chuck

PS: We had a stage lost at the WSSSC. We did not hang around for snivel hour and we paid the price!

[shopgun]

My main concern was getting a heads up to the stats people so they could possibly review procedures to prevent a reoccurance. Thanks again, Jim

I sympathize with you. I screwed up last year and didn't see that I was scored minor instead of major. However, it was MY fault that I didn't hang around the hour after the match to make sure everything was OK.

The ROs have a crap load of stuff to worry about. It's YOUR responsibility to make sure that you have the correct sheet. That's why you sign it. Additionally, as I said, you have the hour after the match to check things out. I'm sorry to say it, but you have only yourself to blame.

Darren

Darren, I HAVE the correct sheet. My score is on it, my times are on it ,the RO's initials are on it, and MY INITIALS are on it. My sticker was on the white original. Don't remember trying to lay blame on anyone. Correct me if I'm wrong, Jim

[ExtremeShot]

I follow, sorry. It's too bad you didn't catch the mistake the hour after the match.

DM

Darren, I HAVE the correct sheet. My score is on it, my times are on it ,the RO's initials are on it, and MY INITIALS are on it. My sticker was on the white original. Don't remember trying to lay blame on anyone. Correct me if I'm wrong, Jim

[Flexmoney]

shopgun,

Thanks for sharing this unfortunate experience. Hopefully it will help in avoiding it in the future.

Just to recap, there are two likely ways this went down:

1. The stats shack got the scores input with the wrong name on the wrong score sheet

2. The score sheets were mixed up at the stage, and the shooter signed off on a score sheet with somebody else's sticker on it (which would still give the shooter a perfect looking carbon copy).

The only way to know would be to look at the original score sheets...if stats or the MD happened to keep them.

[Bdavis]

For the record, I was out of the state and out of the country for two weeks following the match and was not able to receive or answer emails.

Second, even the original score sheet would probably not help if the wrong label was put on a score sheet and then signed by the shooter. Most signatures are not readable. Score sheets are verfied by others in the stats room and compared to the Verifcation Sheets put out by EzWin Score. It will list the shooter number, name and the details of the hits and all penalties. The odds that the correct score sheet was credited to the wrong shooter is pretty small; plus there are measures written into EzWin Score to prevent the overwriting of a score sheet. The correct measures to take are for the shooter(s) to actually verify that the sheet in front of him/her is theirs, that the hits add up, that a time is given. We had at least 18 scores sheets that had to be given back to the RM to go back and get the correct information or award a re-shoot due to shooters signing scores sheets with incorrect or missing information.

The other step that prevents this is the one hour of posting; that many shooters seem to ignore or skip. People are invovled in this sport and that means errors can and do happen and can pass through all the measures intended to keep them from happening. It takes a joint effort to make the match error free.