paul788 Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 What are you using to make 120 pf out of a .38? So far it looks tough to do with a 4 in. If its over the listed limit, don't post it as I won't use it. Thank yall Paul I've learned to count revolver, its the 1,2,click, 4,5,6,click,click,bang that's throwing me off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 (edited) It is not difficult for 38 Special +P loadings. 4.3 gr TiteGroup Fed 100 SP primers Berry's 158 gr CPRN Cartridge overall length = 1.500" This load will consistently make 780 fps (and most times 792 fps) out of any of the (6+) 4" S&Ws I have used. The 4.3 gr TG charge is the max listed in Hodgdon's 38 Special +P loadings. I have well over a min of 10K rd each through my 19-3, 13-2, 15-2 and 10-6 with no signs of excessive wear. You'll grow old, broke and arthritic trying to wear out an L-frame with that load. Clays & VV320 will make it as well with Berry's 158 gr bullet. Your counting technique sounds like it is suffering from an acute case of amateur gunsmithing. Craig Edited December 29, 2006 by Bones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 I have just as much trouble with a stock action as I do with an "Overly" Tuned action. But, make sure the trigger rebounds without any hitch. If it does rebound smoothly, then you just need to concentrate on "Releasing" the trigger at the same speed as you "Pulled" it. One good thing about Revolvers, you can dry fire without having to manually cock the hammer each time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg in VA Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 I use Clays with a ZERO 158 gr LSWC, my load that shoots 825 fps in a 8" barrel is 3.4 grs load it to a factory lengh and crimp it hard, burns clean and is very consistant. For a 4" gun try 3.1-3.2grs and you should have a good load. Greg in VA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzShooter Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 158 grain or 160 grain lead with 3.8 grains of Bullseye or Solo 1000. Both work great out of my guns. They make about 130 PF so there are no concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 Paul788, Accurate gives the loading data for Solo 1000 to be 3.1 to 3.4 for a 158 lead bullet. I load 3.7 as does AzShooter, behind a 160 grain lead bullet. I like the accuracy of the load at 50 yards. In a 6 inch 686 3.2 gives me about a 120 pf. The 3.4 should bring you close to the 120 in a four inch. ymmv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Sherman Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 It is not difficult for 38 Special +P loadings.4.3 gr TiteGroup Fed 100 SP primers Berry's 158 gr CPRN Cartridge overall length = 1.500" This load will consistently make 780 fps (and most times 792 fps) out of any of the (6+) 4" S&Ws I have used. The 4.3 gr TG charge is the max listed in Hodgdon's 38 Special +P loadings. I have well over a min of 10K rd each through my 19-3, 13-2, 15-2 and 10-6 with no signs of excessive wear. You'll grow old, broke and arthritic trying to wear out an L-frame with that load. Clays & VV320 will make it as well with Berry's 158 gr bullet. Your counting technique sounds like it is suffering from an acute case of amateur gunsmithing. Craig Craig, Ditto on the L Frame S&W. My 686-4 has well over 50k rounds down range shooting IDPA from 99-2002. My load was almost exactly as you have stated above except my powder charge was 4.5 grain of Titegroup to comfortably make the IDPA PF 135,000. The brass was speer 38+P and I can't recall ever seeing any problems. Considering the gun was designed for the very potent 357, the guns stability was never a real concern. At the time, I felt that reloading a less than full power 357 was more risky, not to mention the longer OAL making reloading and unloading a little slower. Later, D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Action Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 It is not difficult for 38 Special +P loadings.4.3 gr TiteGroup Fed 100 SP primers Berry's 158 gr CPRN Cartridge overall length = 1.500" That is just about the same load I use. It easily makes minor in USPSA and works well for ICORE, too, from my son's 4" and my 6". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnRodriguez Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 first off you need to run your loads up around 130 pf. Several years ago Bud Bond didn't make the 120 minimum and had 360 penalty seconds added to his score. Went from 6th to the bottom the list at the IRC. My load for 38 special is 4.5 VVn310 with a 160 gr lead bullet. For and for 38 super it's 3.7 VVn310 with a 135 gr lead bullet. both make about 130pf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 4.3 gr TiteGroupFed 100 SP primers Berry's 158 gr CPRN Cartridge overall length = 1.500" Actually, Hodgdon uses a 1.45" OAL, and so do I. It seems to be the magic length for .38 Special; the standard cast RNLs ends up that length when crimped in the crimp groove, it works with the excellent (albeit smokey) Zero swaged RNs, and also with Berry's RNs. At this length, the Berry's RNs are seated deeply enough to roll crimp them. (My speedloading skills are such that I need all the help I can get.)4.7 grains of 231 (Winchester's +P load) under the Berry's RN makes 835 fps from my 4" M10 and shoots well. 4.5 grains of 231 under a 158 grain RNL goes faster and shoots under 2" at 25 yards with this gun and 55 year old eyes. New data from Hodgdon gives +P loads for IMR powders. They list SR 7625/4.7 grains/881 fps and SR 4756/5.5 grains/928 fps using Hornady 158 grain XTPs and their 7.7" test barrel. I emailed them and the tech said the loads were okay with lead and plated bullets. I haven't tried them yet - probably this weekend. Speer's #13 manual has an excellent section with .38 +P 158 grain lead bullet loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 (edited) Revchuck, The length of Berry's CPRN is longer than most 158 gr RNs and considerably longer than the Hornady XTP bullet listed in the Hodgdon manual I have - hence the longer ctg OAL. What really matters in the internal case volume with a seated bullet. I think once do the math you'll find the resulting ctg OALs are similar - at least my X-Ray & cross-sectional analyses indicated they were. Dennis - We hope to see you and your L-frame (and all your friends with L-frames) at the New England Regional Championship in August. I assure you it will be revolver-friendly: http://www.matchreg.com Check your crimp, you shouldn't need that much powder. If you're using a Dillon roll crimp die and Berry's bullets, lower the die/tighten until your bullets tumble - then and back off 60o. I needed up to 4.6 gr until I had the crimp set as described above - accuracy and precision improved as well. Craig Edited January 25, 2007 by Bones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pin Shooter Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Hi John....Does the VN310 burn clean ? Mark first off you need to run your loads up around 130 pf. Several years ago Bud Bond didn't make the 120 minimum and had 360 penalty seconds added to his score. Went from 6th to the bottom the list at the IRC. My load for 38 special is 4.5 VVn310 with a 160 gr lead bullet. For and for 38 super it's 3.7 VVn310 with a 135 gr lead bullet. both make about 130pf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 3.6gr Nitro 100 with a 158plated bullet in 38 special for stock, 4.1gr with a 110/125 bullet for open..... and in my experience, VV310 burns very clean....... DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Since I seem to have lots of it around here, does anyone use Clays? I want to make at least 130 PF with 158 gr plated bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10mmdave Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Since I seem to have lots of it around here, does anyone use Clays? I want to make at least 130 PF with 158 gr plated bullets. I'm working on a 4.2/4.3 Clays load with 158 Rainer RNFP, 1.50 OAL with Rem or Starline brass. It's giving me a little less than 130 PF out of my ported gun. I'm looking at Zero's 150 JRN .356 bullet for a great accuracy load, 4.2 to 4.3 grns, I'm loading a bunch tonight to test more. Will be trying some 158 Berrys RN soon I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Sherman Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Revchuck,The length of Berry's CPRN is longer than most 158 gr RNs and considerably longer than the Hornady XTP bullet listed in the Hodgdon manual I have - hence the longer ctg OAL. What really matters in the internal case volume with a seated bullet. I think once do the math you'll find the resulting ctg OALs are similar - at least my X-Ray & cross-sectional analyses indicated they were. Dennis - We hope to see you and your L-frame (and all your friends with L-frames) at the New England Regional Championship in August. I assure you it will be revolver-friendly: http://www.matchreg.com Check your crimp, you shouldn't need that much powder. If you're using a Dillon roll crimp die and Berry's bullets, lower the die/tighten until your bullets tumble - then and back off 60o. I needed up to 4.6 gr until I had the crimp set as described above - accuracy and precision improved as well. Craig Craig, I will check on that crimp, and thanks for that information. Well, I am planning on making as many of the CT/MA matches as I can this season. We, over here in the Peoples Republic of New York, think ya'all are really "top shelf" in the IDPA business. See you soon. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R112mercer Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Since I seem to have lots of it around here, does anyone use Clays? I want to make at least 130 PF with 158 gr plated bullets. I'm working on a 4.2/4.3 Clays load with 158 Rainer RNFP, 1.50 OAL with Rem or Starline brass. It's giving me a little less than 130 PF out of my ported gun. I'm looking at Zero's 150 JRN .356 bullet for a great accuracy load, 4.2 to 4.3 grns, I'm loading a bunch tonight to test more. Will be trying some 158 Berrys RN soon I hope. Here's what I use for .38 Special ICORE: 158 gr. Rainier Plated RN @ 1.100" - 3.0 gr. W231 - .38 Short Colt Brass 158 gr. Rainier Plated RN @ 1.505” - 3.6 gr. Clays – 130 PF - .38 Special Brass Gun is a 5" 627. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Rainier plated 158, Staling 38 long colt case, 5.1 of IMR 4756 Rainier Plated 158, Staline 38 short colt case, 4.5 of IMR 4756 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 TMC - How clean is 4756 at those pressures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revoman Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Since I seem to have lots of it around here, does anyone use Clays? I want to make at least 130 PF with 158 gr plated bullets. I'm working on a 4.2/4.3 Clays load with 158 Rainer RNFP, 1.50 OAL with Rem or Starline brass. It's giving me a little less than 130 PF out of my ported gun. I'm looking at Zero's 150 JRN .356 bullet for a great accuracy load, 4.2 to 4.3 grns, I'm loading a bunch tonight to test more. Will be trying some 158 Berrys RN soon I hope. Here's what I use for .38 Special ICORE: 158 gr. Rainier Plated RN @ 1.100" - 3.0 gr. W231 - .38 Short Colt Brass 158 gr. Rainier Plated RN @ 1.505” - 3.6 gr. Clays – 130 PF - .38 Special Brass Gun is a 5" 627. What is the power factor on the 38 short colt and are you showing any signs of pressure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R112mercer Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Haven't actually ran it over a chrono so I'm not sure. On the way to that load I used a chrono and was real close to 130, so I figure it would probably make it in my gun if I took the time. There were no pressure signs working up to that load, although I did get some with Clays in the Short Colt case. I gave up on Short Colts for the time being as they seemed to hang up going into the cylinder during a match. Not sure of why, but it doesn't happen with the .38 Special brass. Other guys have used Short Colts with no complaints, so as always, try it out and see what you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Rob, it is prbably your moons. The 38 special moons can be "floppy" with the specials. If you are going to run the short colts at speed I would recommend the Hearthcos for starline short colts. They just pop in there, it is kinda scary.... DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R112mercer Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Rob, it is prbably your moons. The 38 special moons can be "floppy" with the specials. If you are going to run the short colts at speed I would recommend the Hearthcos for starline short colts. They just pop in there, it is kinda scary.... DougC Sounds like a $70 solution to a $50 experiment . I tried the Short Colts because it was only $50 or so for 500 and I thought they might pick me up some speed. I run Brownells moon clips. Maybe some day when I get the big bucks I'll shell out the cash for Hearthco's and dig out my supply of Short Colt brass. For now I'll stick with Special brass. Thanks for the info, Doug, you're always a great source of know-how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooterj Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 4.1gr Trail Boss 160gr lrn clean burning and very accurate out of my 627PC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 I used the 4.3 gr. Titegroup loads with 158 gr. plated bullets. Recently I switched to 4.1 gr. Trail Boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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