Vlad Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Gee ... everyone always says we should mail the BOD to speak out minds. Seeing the how the BOD itself is sometimes being bypassed (see L10 being removed without discussion) I wonder what the point would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Wonder Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 So why not just adopt the IPSC rules? +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
styx Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Does anyone know what size the proposed box would be? I just started used a Glock 24 in Limited and hope it will remain legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
open17 Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Does anyone know what size the proposed box would be? I just started used a Glock 24 in Limited and hope it will remain legal. Haven't seen any mention of a box in Limited. Just Production and Single Stack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Let's see--in the past few years in Production:We have a list of approved guns---just like IPSC We are going to have a "Box" (Oct BOD minutes, item 13)----just like IPSC We are going to have a minimum trigger pull-------just like IPSC So why not just adopt the IPSC rules? We are going there anyway, just slowly. Kind of like removing a band-aid--do it quick and it doesn't hurt as much. We're still quite a ways off from IPSC in Production. And I really don't want to have IPSC Production rules. I don't think Amidon can handle the extra emails asking, "Can I do this?" IPSC doesn't even use a box in Production, just Standard. We've always had a list of approved guns. The only thing from your list is the minimum pull which IPSC specs at a DA biased 5lb. USPSA will now have a 3lb minimum which is much more reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
open17 Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 We're still quite a ways off from IPSC in Production. And I really don't want to have IPSC Production rules. I don't think Amidon can handle the extra emails asking, "Can I do this?" IPSC doesn't even use a box in Production, just Standard. We've always had a list of approved guns. The only thing from your list is the minimum pull which IPSC specs at a DA biased 5lb. USPSA will now have a 3lb minimum which is much more reasonable. Why do we even need a minimum? I wasn't aware there is a problem that needs to be addressed. And a BOX? Why the heck do we need a box in Production if we are running off of a approved gun list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j2fast Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 (edited) Does anyone know what size the proposed box would be? I just started used a Glock 24 in Limited and hope it will remain legal. From the Minutes: dimensions of 8 3/4” x 6” x 1 5/8” for both Production and Provisional Single Stack Division boxes. Edited November 20, 2006 by j2fast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 NO POLITICS!!! (keep who you are and aren't going to vote for to yourself) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 And a BOX? Why the heck do we need a box in Production if we are running off of aapproved gun list? +1! Will the G34/G35 fit in this box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted November 20, 2006 Author Share Posted November 20, 2006 Yes the G34/35 fits fine. I tried it myself. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 G34 and G35 fit just fine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driver8M3 Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 And a BOX? Why the heck do we need a box in Production if we are running off of a approved gun list? +1! Will the G34/G35 fit in this box? they should fit...unless you have hanging bomars.is there some sort of written procedure for testing trigger pull? is there going to be one official guage that will be used? i wonder if the vanek/sotelo/other drop-in kits will pass this test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Will the G34/G35 fit in this box?they should fit...unless you have hanging bomars.is there some sort of written procedure for testing trigger pull? is there going to be one official guage that will be used? i wonder if the vanek/sotelo/other drop-in kits will pass this test. I don't have hanging Bo-mars installed on a 34 anymore, but eyeballing the sights next to the current Sevigny sights, and using a level, it would seem that the overhanging Bo-mars will fit just fine ---- since the grip hump is the protrusion that is most rearward..... I also seem to remember my Bo-Mar equipped G34 fitting in an IDPA Box, once upon a time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driver8M3 Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 whoops. yes, nik is correct. i forgot about the grip being most the rearward part of the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Yes the G34/35 fits fine. I tried it myself.Gary Ok, great. But why do we need a box if we have a list of guns that can play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted November 20, 2006 Author Share Posted November 20, 2006 I was hoping someone wouldn't ask this It is a little more detailed than I can go through in this forum, but I'll try to do a Readers Digest version. We needed a way to have controls around Production without going through a never ending question and answer fest with NROI. The box is one of those tools to help control future gun developement. It will be part of the approval process. Gun company makes the new "Galatic Master Blaster" and wants to have it included on the approved gun list. If it meets the other criteria, "and" it fits in the box it would be approved. It was a way to allow future gun development, but maintain some amount of control on the equipment that was being used. I will now retreat to my bunker and wait for the incoming rounds which are sure to follow. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 My understanding is that we will have the opportunity to comment on the 2008 rule book early next year. Hopefully we can steer the new rules in a direction that we want as long as everyone remembers to send in those comments. Things that we need to be aware of: 1. Any rule that is added to alter a division has to be enforceable at the club-level. ie. If USPSA directs a minimum trigger pull then they have to provide a mechanism and tool to do that. If we use a trigger guage where do we apply it on the trigger ? Who calibrates the trigger gauge etc? What make a model of trigger gauge has to be used ? This is one of the big problems with IPSC production division. They add so many restrictions but do not provide a comprehensive method of enforcing them, and some are simply un-enforceable. We need to be careful that USPSA does not fall into the same trap. 2. USPSA needs to remember that there are essentially two forms of USPSA. The National level where we have Area matches and State matches and Nationals. And the local club level. At the club level we want to accomodate as many shooters as possible to grow the sport. I suspect that the changes to divisions will benefit the NATIONAL USPSA and harm the LOCAL USPSA. We need to find a solution here. Many of our members will NEVER shoot at the NATIONAL level but we need to provide them a place to play at the LOCAL level. 3. This is our association. We vote for those that represent our interests. If they do not work in our best interest then we need to bear that in mind in future elections. But we must also ensure that those that represent us know of our thoughts and opinions in a polite and reasoned manner. We should not criticise the 2008 rule book until we have seen it and reviewed it's changes in context. Once we have done that then we should pass our comments back. Not just criticisms but suggestions for alternate wording etc. I think we all just need to hold off until we see the 2008 rule book and proceed from there. Everything else at this point is just noise... this is has been my 2 cents and I hope you enjoyed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caps Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 (edited) We've always had a list of approved guns. IIRC, that's not true. First we used the IPSC box, but there was no list or trigger test. Then we used the IPSC gun list. Then we did our own list. Then there was the Vanek ruling. Now we're changing to the IDPA box and adding a trigger test. God knows what's next! This is one of the big problems with IPSC production division. They add so many restrictions but do not provide a comprehensive method of enforcing them, and some are simply un-enforceable. Like what? We had no probs in Canada enforcing the rules coz the 5lb trigger test took care of internal mods and we couldn't change anything externally except some sights and grip tape. Edited November 20, 2006 by caps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 I was hoping someone wouldn't ask this It is a little more detailed than I can go through in this forum, but I'll try to do a Readers Digest version. We needed a way to have controls around Production without going through a never ending question and answer fest with NROI. The box is one of those tools to help control future gun developement. It will be part of the approval process. Gun company makes the new "Galatic Master Blaster" and wants to have it included on the approved gun list. If it meets the other criteria, "and" it fits in the box it would be approved. It was a way to allow future gun development, but maintain some amount of control on the equipment that was being used. I will now retreat to my bunker and wait for the incoming rounds which are sure to follow. Gary Actually, that makes perfect sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted November 20, 2006 Author Share Posted November 20, 2006 HAHAHA, nice try. If you think you can get me out of my bunker that easily, you are wrong. Sure come on out, makes perfect sense, then POW!!!! Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIIID Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 After reading the proposed additions/changes I have authorized unlimited overtime at the shop to develope the offical trigger pull gauge for USPSA. The gauge will need to have a different shoe adapter for each and every approved model. I'm assuming USPSA will supply all affilliated clubs with these items. Oh, I can't forget to make the boxes. After that the team will dust off the DA/SA trigger job nobody would buy for $100.00 because of the 3# first pull, they did seem to like the 1# SA pull. I think now they will be willing to pay $200.00 for it. That pile of 3.25# pound trigger springs will sell if I can get the rust off of them. I just might be able to retire a multi-millionaire before 50 if I can only figure out a way to actually enforce these rules that the BOD can accept. That might require double overtime pay, so maybe 55 would be a safer bet to retire at. Why am I wasting time typing on this thread about non existant rules when there is money to be made. Keep up the good work BOD, I can't wait to retire at 60 or maybe 65. Well lets face it I'll retire when I die. Rich As Britin USA has said this is all just noise until we see the entire '08 rule book. This isn't my .02 cents it's yours I'm going to make off the new rule book, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted November 20, 2006 Author Share Posted November 20, 2006 Hey Rich, don't forget my discounts Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Wonder Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Does anyone know what size the proposed box would be? I just started used a Glock 24 in Limited and hope it will remain legal. The Glock 24 will not fit in the box (unless the box is a LOT larger than IDPA's). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Does anyone know what size the proposed box would be? I just started used a Glock 24 in Limited and hope it will remain legal. The Glock 24 will not fit in the box (unless the box is a LOT larger than IDPA's). OK..G24 is the 6" and will not fit the box. If styx is shooting Limited the box does not matter anyway.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Yeah, but does NROI have the G24 posted on the approved Limited and Limited-10 gun list?? Measuring trigger pull is pretty simple and should be more consistent than chrono is today, and IPSC somehow manages to muddle through. Were I in charge of it, I'd make an official USPSA 1/2" delrin cylinder with a 1/4" hole in the middle and have the tester to pull straight back with the bottom of the cylinder touching the bottom of the triggerguard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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