Cz Shadow Or M&p For Production?

[thunderstick]

I am trying to decide between the CZ Shadow (Angus-ized SP01) or the M&P for production. I am curious on which one can have a better trigger job done to it, followed by the usual things; better adjustable sights, reloads, softer shooting, .etc

thanks in advance.

[Bryan W]

they're both solid choices - I've shot both but I haven't shot the MP with a trigger job. My CZ had the Angus trigger work done and the trigger is really nice. The MP with a stock trigger was still plenty decent. My preference between the two for a PRD gun would be the MP. You should try to shoot both. You can't go wrong either way, however.

Edited November 17, 2006 by Bryan W

[Loves2Shoot]

CZ in a heartbeat for me between the two.

[thunderstick]

The other option is also the Springfield XD. Between the three (CZ, M&P, and XD) how would you rank them. I am thinking of thinks like also being able to by adjustable sights, holsters, mag pouches, .etc

[Viggen]

Shoot them all and get what you like, although it's going to be another year or two until there is a clear read on M&P reliability.

I tend toward the CZ, although I shoot both the CZ and XD. And if it was a choice between an SP01 and an M&P, the SP01 would be the the choice.

[Bryan W]

well, i have shot the XD as well....In fact, I was shooting the MP and XD back to back just last weekend. Both were stock guns - The MP was the better shooter for me by a long shot. My rating, which doesn't mean anything, would be the MP, Glock, CZ, Beretta Elite II, XD - I threw in a few guns you didn't ask about

[Z-man]

Just my own experience but between the XD and the CZ, the CZ wins hands down. The XD can have a really great trigger, but you'll find the CZ is more accurate, softer shooting, and can have an excellent trigger. The thing I found most frustrating with the XD was the inability to get stock parts without shipping off the gun all the time (and I seemed to break a part twice a month). Accessories for the CZ are easily found as well, check out Angus' website (ghostholster.com).

Edited November 17, 2006 by Z-man

[ihatepickles]

Thunderstick,

I see you're in Idaho. Are you in the Boise area? A local shooter has a CZ Shadow you could check out, it's been to Angus for work.

[Jim Watson]

The Shadow was the nicest demo gun I saw at the IDPA Nationals. I was not as impressed by shooting the Plastic M&P as I was by hefting it in the store.

[eerw]

one of the biggest factors will be if you can make the adjustments to the DA/SA transition of the SP01 or if you will do better with the consistent trigger pull of the MP.

the SP01 is a heavier gun..both guns can be had with good fixed sights..the SP01 does have the option of adjustables if you think you need them..I am sure someone will figure that out for the MP too..holsters can be had for both guns..

the guns are so different..you are probably going to have to shoot one or both to decide..

my choice is the SP01..just love my gun..but I am going to get an MP to try it out.

[Carlos]

If you take the slides/barrels off, then compare side by side, you will be shocked. CZ frame is heavy, and all steel and on par with an STI Limited gun. S&W frame weighs nothing. Surpisingly, both work very well for our sport.

However, I strongly prefer the CZ for USPSA due to its weight and trigger that seems to mimic my STI/SV once the first shot is fired.

For CCW, I carry a gun almost the same size and geometry as the S&W, the Steyr M40. Maybe they will make a slightly larger S&W along the lines of the Glock 34/35 or XD Tactical.

[oddjob]

I have a SP-01 re-done by Matt Mink and a Canyon Creek XD-9 for Production. I'm using the CZ. As someone else has mentioned the trigger on the CZ is closer to a 1911 type than the XD. Nothing wrong with the XD though. The CZ is a better fit for me. I have not shot/handled the MP though.

[raz-0]

I have shot both a baby eagle and M&P in production class. I've also handled an sp-01 with Angus's trigger job. I have test fired XDs from compact to tactical size, with and without trigger jobs.

Weight:

I would have (and did) sworn i preferred a heavy gun. Some people like a light gun. I'm really finding I like the lightness of the M&P. BUt as a spectrum, it goes SP-01, baby eagle (might even reverse the two they are so close), cz-75, XD, M&P. You like heavy go sp-01, you like light, go M&P. the cz-75 doesn't quite split the difference.

Balance:

sp-01, baby eagle, and M&P win on that. cz-75 is a close second, and the XD is top heavy. If the 5" version, nose heavy too, which I find leads to a very flippy feel under recoil compared ot the others.

Trigger:

The angus trigger is better than stock, but honestly while probably lighter doesn't feel smoother than my well broken in baby eagle. Smooth counts to me. A worked XD trigger is WAY lighter and smoother, but kind of mushy feeling. I haven't shot an M&P with a real trigger job, jsut some minor cleaning up of rough surfaces, and I'd call it a push between that and a stock sp-01 trigger. Out of the box they are all probably in the neighborhood of sufficient, but you;d want them worked on. They all have an option for getting them worked on.

Spare parts:

CZ & M&P win, with the 75 being the winner in the CZ pile due to it being more common. XD sucks for getting parts when you want them.

Sights:

OF those out there, I'd go with a cz topped by angus's sights with the front being their small fiber sight. I liek the M&P sights in general, but REALLY want a plain black rear. lots of folks are working on it, but their isn't a readily available choice yet that doesn't have some issues. XD I believe i have only seen front sights for. Out of the box it is probably a toss up between M&P and XD sights IMO. The tall rear sight on the cz pistols causes some people to try to look over it for some reason, which causes problems if you are one of those people.

Magazines:

M&P wins. the only down side to them is unlike the guns which shipped unlubed and NEED some, the mags ship over lubed and need to be degreased to be maximally reliable. If shooting .40 M&P also gives you more flexibility in what you shoot than CZ and XD. Also, the 17 round 9mm mags seem to hold 18 for a lot of people wihout issue. Only thing actually bad about them is they are not stainless. They are just also really smooth & easy on reloads. NOt quite STI/para with a magwell easy, but better than a glock IMO. The XD takes next honors. CZ brings up the bottom of the pack. The ammount of time I have (and every other cz shooter I have run into seems to have) put into making them run reliably and drop free reliably is fairly embarassing. The floorplates can also be SHARP and mean to you on reloads. I've gotten cut by them doing reloads more than a few times.

Durability:

Magazines and trigger jobs aside, the CZs regularly consume springs and slide stops. M&P and XD have to be around longer to have a track record.

Control layout:

CZs you have to manually decokc the gun to play unless you get a decokcer model. M&P and XD you can jsut load and hoslter and draw and shoot. M&P wins on controls IMO for simplicity, layout, and being ambidexterous. However, i am refering to the M&P with the new style slide release rather than the original. I also give the cz family a minus for having a very small slide to grasp.

Accuracy:

Inherently, I'd probably rate them as CZ, M&P, XD. However, I honestly think that within the natural variances of ccurrent manufacturing, accuracy is a push between them. For me getting the hits in the a-zone seems to be easier and faster with the M&P, but that's largley due to factors of ergonomics outside of inherent accuracy.

CUStomer service:

May not be that importnat to you, but S&W will send youa call tag on their dime and bill you later if it isn't under warranty. SA will have you ship on their dime and reimburse you if it IS under warranty. CZ will be more likely to let you talk to someone who knows what ehy are talking about, but dealth with the CZ slide lock breakage by saying it is now a wear item. When asked what the service interval of it is they said 3000 rounds. Which is 2000 rounds less than the recoil spring. (realisticly it looks like the seervice interval is about 7000 ronds shooting minor 9mm, based on people at my local club shooting production).

That's my $1.46 + tax where applicable.

[thunderstick]

Awesome feedback. This type of information what I was looking for. I am going to shooting an Angus-ized CZ this weekend after a match so hopefully that helps in the decision. Thanks again.

[Bryan W]

Let me know if you like how the CZ shoots - I've got an Angus tuned CZ SP01 I'll sell you

[Z-man]

I think you'll really like the CZ!

Edited November 18, 2006 by Z-man

[chrisjohn]

Shot the XD and CZ back to back several times. CZ won. Everybody is different.

The key with either is to not sink too much money in it. After getting my CZ SP01 upgraded to the Shadow, I'm nearly at the money for a Tactical Sport.

[Kevin Kline]

I love my CZ's and shoot them in Prod. If I didnt like my CZ's as much as I do, I'd probably be shooting the MP in Prod.

These CZ's are addicting.

[Zerwas]

I fell in love with the M&P 40 caliber. So much so, I bought the company... ( ).

Anyway, I really do like the M&P because of the way it sits in the hand. It has a very low bore axis and I find it very soft shooting.

I also have and love my Matthew Mink-ized CZ75B-SA (converted to double action). It would be a very tough choice deciding on which of these two I'd use for production. Both pistols are very accurate for me (slight edge to the CZ). Both recoil very soft (slight edge to the CZ). Both are flat out fun to shoot.

I guess I'd have to take into consideration which of these two pistols I could us off the competition fields as well. For me, the M&P is a better choice simply because of the accessory rail and its trigger system.

The accessory rail allows me to use a light, so I can use the pistol as a home defense firearm.

The trigger system on the M&P is more condusive to a carry gun than the CZ I have becuase of the simple design of the M&P trigger. As someone had already mentioned, the CZ trigger must be manually lowered if you want to carry it (although, with my CZ75B-SA, I have the option of carrying it cocked and locked).

As far as reliability, I have had issues with a couple of CZ magazines. The M&P has been flawless so far. In fact, I picked up one of these M&P for my wife to carry for her personal defense pistol.

I've never been a big S&W auto fan until this M&P came out. This pistol is that good. But then again, so is the CZ.

Good luck in your choice, I can't imagine you could go wrong either way.

[Jman]

The thing I found most frustrating with the XD was the inability to get stock parts without shipping off the gun all the time (and I seemed to break a part twice a month).

Wow, between the two XD's I own, and the thousands of rounds run through them the last three years. I didn't realize they were breaking so much.

Nothing I enjoy more then "inter-web" gun reviewers. Sig, Heckler & Koch, Glock, CZ, Springfield Armory, Para and Smith & Wesson make GREAT production guns. Narrow your choice down to a couple two or three. Rent them if you can. Shoot each as much as possible. Then you, and ONLY you will know "the best gun". Have fun.

[steel1212]

The thing I found most frustrating with the XD was the inability to get stock parts without shipping off the gun all the time (and I seemed to break a part twice a month).

Wow, between the two XD's I own, and the thousands of rounds run through them the last three years. I didn't realize they were breaking so much.

Nothing I enjoy more then "inter-web" gun reviewers. Sig, Heckler & Koch, Glock, CZ, Springfield Armory, Para and Smith & Wesson make GREAT production guns. Narrow your choice down to a couple two or three. Rent them if you can. Shoot each as much as possible. Then you, and ONLY you will know "the best gun". Have fun.

Yup broke a lot of parts so far on the service, tactical...wait nope, not a one It would be nice to have them available though.

Anyway I don't think there is one "best" gun just the best for one person. I've felt a really nice MP trigger and I still like my tactical from L2S better. I have never felt a nice triggered CZ though. From what I've heard here I think I would like to.

Edited November 24, 2006 by steel1212

[Kevin Kline]

A nice triggered or worked CZ is something really special. The CZ's are the most accurate out of the box guns Ive ever fired and even rival some of my custom guns. My CZ's have been 100% flawless with no malfunctions of any kind.

The MP40 is now my duty gun and Im pretty damn happy with it. I actually like shooting my MP more than anything else, except my CZ's of course, but other than that, it would be the MP's.

TRP Professional, Pm sent.

[raz-0]

Wow, between the two XD's I own, and the thousands of rounds run through them the last three years. I didn't realize they were breaking so much.

It isn't that they are breaking so much. Although there is the issue with the locking block depending on how old your XD is, and a number of people have had issues with the extractor, which is unclear if it is a bad batch for hardness or a more general problem with tolerances occasionally squeeking out of acceptable range.

The bigger issue with spare parts is that it kind of has a chilling effect on smiths who would like to have spare parts to get the hang of the gun as well as home tinkerers. It's one thing to eat the warranty. It's another thing to suck up $100 in shipping to get a new $25 part.

A ready supply of spare parts is definitely a factor in success in the competitive market.

[smokshwn]

Keep in mind also that there seems to be a strong current towards making a minimum trigger pull rule for production. As it was proposed (3lb. min) it would handicap the XD's, Glocks, and MP's as far as trigger work that could be performed.

+1 on the poor availability of parts from both SW and Springfield.

[Kevin Kline]

Actually, I kind of like the factory MP trigger. I might like it a little lighter, but its not bad the way it is. I think it is very crisp and light pre travel. When you hit any resistance, it is right at where the trigger breaks and very crisp.