ima45dv8 Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 Congratulations, Micah. Sleep well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 Just finished a match that had an unloaded gun start and part of the WSB included the use of the "make ready" command. The RO's still allowed a sight picture & simulated load after the MR command. That was my stage. Is it appropriate to ask a shooter to take a step backward before giving "If finished" command? On my Area 1 stage, the shooters ended up with their pistols extended beyond the left side of a wall. For right handed shooters I would stand on their right side and they would be doing their unloading procedure in a pretty tight spot, between the shooter and a wall. I started asking the shooters to take a step backward to increase the space between the wall. After the step backward I would give the IF command. Was this bad? mattk Matt, I think I would have modified it to If Finished please step back, then UL&SC. I have been known to add some inflection to IF pause Finished on occasion. Stage 12 had the shooters standing up before UL&SC with the command IF please stand up and UL&SC. My answer "someone call the wrecker to help me up." Being an RO is a personal thing otherwise USPSA could get a bunch of robots and send them out to matches as needed, might even be cheaper. But don't tell Dave Thomas or he might start looking into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 I had an RO at a recent major tell me "Make ready". I didn't think that I heard him correctly, so I did nothing. "Make ready", he repeated 10 seconds later.I looked at him and said "Load and make ready?", not trying to be a smart ass, rather wanting to be perfectly certain that I was not about to dq myself. "There is no loading involved in the start of this stage, so make ready!", was his reply. Obviously I am not going to correct the stage commands just before he scores my stage...but come on guys I think this one might go to the not remembering the stage briefing or paying attention. Some of the newer non-dedicated once-a-month shooters hear "load and make ready", so they do just that. I agree on the use of proper commands, but also see the point of just "make ready" as a reminder to not load your gun for this stage. On another note, could you be DQ'd for drawing your gun on an improper command like that? I think you could argue that one and win. I don't see how. LAMR, whether the stage requires the gun to loaded or not, is the shooter's command to "prepare the gun". It's also the time when sight pictures are allowed. No DQ for drawing the gun after LAMR, even if the eventual ready condition for that stage is unloaded. Mark, What the shooter got was a MR, not a LAMR...therefore, the concern for an improper range command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 I had an RO at a recent major tell me "Make ready". I didn't think that I heard him correctly, so I did nothing. "Make ready", he repeated 10 seconds later.I looked at him and said "Load and make ready?", not trying to be a smart ass, rather wanting to be perfectly certain that I was not about to dq myself. "There is no loading involved in the start of this stage, so make ready!", was his reply. Obviously I am not going to correct the stage commands just before he scores my stage...but come on guys I think this one might go to the not remembering the stage briefing or paying attention. Some of the newer non-dedicated once-a-month shooters hear "load and make ready", so they do just that. I agree on the use of proper commands, but also see the point of just "make ready" as a reminder to not load your gun for this stage. On another note, could you be DQ'd for drawing your gun on an improper command like that? I think you could argue that one and win. I don't see how. LAMR, whether the stage requires the gun to loaded or not, is the shooter's command to "prepare the gun". It's also the time when sight pictures are allowed. No DQ for drawing the gun after LAMR, even if the eventual ready condition for that stage is unloaded. Mark, What the shooter got was a MR, not a LAMR...therefore, the concern for an improper range command. I saw that. I guess I should have said that whether the command was LAMR or MR, drawing the gun at that point still isn't a DQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloopy70 Posted September 2, 2007 Share Posted September 2, 2007 Some of you guys are mentioning that your not sure what to say in the situation where a shooter is not yet in the shooters box... Just because you may be R.O.ing doesn't mean you can't use any part of the english language BUT the range commands... if you need to communicate something to a shooter then do it... Yes the range commands are there as commands, but youve gotta be smart enough, and the shooter should be smart enough to be able to communicate with each other even before the "event" of LAMR has came about... If someone is sooo zoned in on shooting that they Load and make ready when you walk up and say "so, are you doin alright this morning", then they should be DQed for being unsafe... yes I understand some people get zoned out before theyre turn, but its unsafe to lose your human consciousness in order to compete... any thoughts??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce282 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Range CommandsSNIP Unload and Show Clear, If Clear, (and this is for his benefit) SLIDE FORWARD, Hammer Down, Holster. It is so much fun to watch George shuffle forward on the slide forward command. SNIP Jim I just completed the Level 1 RO class with George this past weekend in NC. In the class were several of our IDPA brethren SO's. Their ULSC command includes Slide Forward, and yup first 2 to run George in the classroom said Slide Forward and off George went. When the next one did the same thing off George went only to get the slightly unofficial "Whoa there, Slide back". And of course during the range exercise I screwed up and included Slide Forward. Oh well, great class, and George told us this presenttaion was brand new using the 2008 rule book. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skizeks Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 I found one good reason not to ask the shooter if they know and understand the course of fire, before I would give the LAMR. If you don't speak and understand English, it all sounds the same. In 04 or 05 at the Nats I had a shooter from France that didn't spead any English. Now we are standing in the shooting box. I asked him if he new and understood the COF and out pops the gun and he has it loaded and back in the holster before he be stoped. Now the guy with him that could speak English told him what he had done as we are both standing in the shooting box. The shooter started trembling and shacking. Buy the rule book what should I have done? DQ him!! I didn't DQ him for it! Through his friend I told him I new what he did and I was ok with it. I gave him the chance to shoot now or stand down a few shooters! Do you know why? The first range comand was LAMR, not "Do you know and understand the COF". The shooter knew that, so when I started talking he went LAMR! Just like he should respond to the first range comand. Duane Eggers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribble Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 I as well just finished and past the Ro class. I heard a fair amount idpa converts saying slide forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 I found one good reason not to ask the shooter if they know and understand the course of fire, before I would give the LAMR. If you don't speak and understand English, it all sounds the same. In 04 or 05 at the Nats I had a shooter from France that didn't spead any English. Now we are standing in the shooting box. I asked him if he new and understood the COF and out pops the gun and he has it loaded and back in the holster before he be stoped. Now the guy with him that could speak English told him what he had done as we are both standing in the shooting box. The shooter started trembling and shacking. Buy the rule book what should I have done? DQ him!! I didn't DQ him for it! Through his friend I told him I new what he did and I was ok with it. I gave him the chance to shoot now or stand down a few shooters! Do you know why? The first range comand was LAMR, not "Do you know and understand the COF". The shooter knew that, so when I started talking he went LAMR! Just like he should respond to the first range comand. Duane Eggers Actually the shooter supposedly KNOWS the commands in English, SO he SHOULD have understood that what you were saying was NOT the range command, but rather unintelligible drivel. He should have looked at you with a very puzzled look and maybe his friend/translator should have stepped up at this point. All said, I think that you did do the "Right Thing" in not DQing him, but perhaps the world body needs to stress the command structure a bit more and also that any part that you don't understand, maybe you should ask your translator about. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 I just completed the Level 1 RO class with George this past weekend in NC. In the class were several of our IDPA brethren SO's. Their ULSC command includes Slide Forward, and yup first 2 to run George in the classroom said Slide Forward and off George went. When the next one did the same thing off George went only to get the slightly unofficial "Whoa there, Slide back". And of course during the range exercise I screwed up and included Slide Forward. Oh well, great class, and George told us this presenttaion was brand new using the 2008 rule book.Bruce You ought to see what happens when you tell him "drop the slide"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NMBOpen Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 FWIW, with the now current 2008 USPSA rules, the command to start the COF is now simply "Make Ready". Those are the words the shooter needs to hear before he starts handling his gun to prepare for the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 I teach in my classes that if you know the shooter personally, and know they won't mind, a bit of "pre-command banter" is OK. A friendly "Hey, I haven't seen you in a while" is not improper. However, if you don't know the shooter, you don't want to break their "mental prep" with small talk. This can especially be important in the scenario described above with the english range commands and a non-english speaking shooter. They understand the sequence of the commands and listen for the sequence, not necessarily the words. Good topic. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 If I read the rule book corectly > is it true? that the shooter sould understand the coures of fire before they get in to the start position and wait for the "Make Ready" comand. ? As in don't get in the box if you have a question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 While perhaps not explicitly stated, the shooter has a final oportunity to state that they are not ready at the "are you ready" command. This would include understanding the course of fire. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOGA Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 It is the responsibility of the shooter to understand the cof. RO already read it to the group during the walk-t . Shooters should listen and ask questions. If I am missing something or a question came up to my mind, I ask before I step into the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 True, but there are occasions that with 13-15 shooters in a squad, on a memory stage, the 5 minutes allowed for a walk through is not sufficient. With that being said, it is still the shooters responsibility to raise the point at sometime prior to the start signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 But answering a question does NOT include allowing them to walk the course one last time. Had a shooter try that on me at the O/L10 Nats in Missoula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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