What Do We Want Revolver Division To Be?

[Barrettone]

There seems to be a difference of opinion as to whether revolver division should more closely follow the limited or production rules. We need to tell NROI what we, the revolver constituency, actually want revolver division to look like. Personally, I like following Limited, after all, they only can hold six rounds, so what could possibly be an advantage???...but we need to have a unified front that we can show to the powers-that-be. Please cast your vote and I'll send the results to John Amidon.

Edited May 29, 2006 by Barrettone

[Waltermitty]

I'm also on the "Limited 6" team. I firmly believe the freedom to innovate in the competetive environment has improved everything from track shoes to brake shoes and has made significant contribution to the shooting sports.

When "slap leather" matches started, the Colt 1911A1 and S&W revolver were the state of the art. Both were displaced as modern race-ready High caps flooded the market from a variety of suppliers that didn't exist a few years before.

I don't know what kind of improvements are out there to be discovered, but I wouldn't want a re-write of the current rules to stifle the creativity our fellow shooters express every time they want to try something new.

Manufacturers do not innovate. They provide what has sold before and what they think will sell again. However, let some Wildcatter start dominating the division with some new wiz-bang idea, and after a little while, even the Production Division guys will get to try it.

GO LIMITED 6!!!

[dajarrel]

I think the revolver division is just fine the way it is. Loosening up the rules to allow more shots/reload or optics will only result in the equipment race we all hear about.

Super-slick triggers, fiber-optic sights and memories of what used to be a hammer are already running the cost up.

We need to be careful.

FWIW

dj

[Bwana Six-Gun]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

What we got works. Leave it alone.

[Airedale]

Leave it alone.

Revolver division is just fine as is.

Dave

[9146gt]

Leave it alone... Let's just have more stages 6rds and reload!!!

Tom

[spook]

I am also fine with both USPSA and IPSC rules as they are now.

As a matter of fact, I think most other divisions would look a lot better with "similar" rules.

[JohnRodriguez]

I too, unfortunatly do think that it should stay a 6 shot game in revo. and we should be able to our ti cylinders, triggers, etc. If it is to be a true limited game then why let use run after market barrels, limited semi-auto's are allowed to run them. The one thing that should happen, is that for limited-10 division the rules should change to allow .355 cal to be run as major, since I do run my 8-shot in that division. I also run it major, but it would be nice to be offical.

P.S productions rules suck, but I do like shooting it with my Para LDA

[Bill Nesbitt]

I like the idea of Limited 6. We all like to "fix" our guns to shoot better. With the 6 round capacity limit, no comps or optics it is the shooter not the equipment.

You decide of you want long or short, heavy or light. Right now there or too many questions about what we can do. If S&W didn't make it then we "maybe" can't shoot it. I have an old 25-2 that I had the barrel cut back to 4 inches years ago for Second Chance. Is it a legal revolver in USPSA? It is rumored that S&W made a few 4 inch 25-2's but this one was cut down.

[Carmoney]

Super-slick triggers, fiber-optic sights and memories of what used to be a hammer are already running the cost up.

A slick action and chamfer is important, but all that other stuff is purely optional.

In addition to the $450 I paid for each gun, my 625s have SDM and Millett sights, and Ed Brown cylinder releases installed on them. That's it. Everything else I did myself at zero cost. And if a desk jockey like me can work on these guns, you guys can too.

I also think the rules are fine just how they are, and wish people would quit worrying about this stuff and just shoot. We have never had any sort of significant controversy since I started shooting in this division. For God's sake, let's not start one ourselves!!

[spook]

Super-slick triggers, fiber-optic sights and memories of what used to be a hammer are already running the cost up.

A slick action and chamfer is important, but all that other stuff is purely optional.

I'll go as far as to say that except for maybe a chamfer, NONE of that stuff is important.

The action on Ricardo Lopez' gun is stock (and I don't mean Performance Centre stock). It was roughly 12 pounds. He had a chamfer and HORRIBLE sights (a home made fiber optic front and a home painted white outline rear)

[Carmoney]

The action on Ricardo Lopez' gun is stock (and I don't mean Performance Centre stock).

I have seen S&Ws that are shootable right out of the box. I have also seen some that are so awful, so heavy, so gritty and ratchety, that I suspect even Ricardo would have trouble shooting them decently. Note also that I said a "slick" action is important--I didn't say a "super-light" action is necessary.

[AzShooter]

I agree with most here so far that we should leave Revolver Division alone. The rule right now is pretty simple to understand. Basically, buy a revolver over the counter, have a trigger job, chamfer cylinders, change grips and you are there.

Anyone can get into the game without going broke. I think that's what the original intent of the new Revolver Division was.

I also think we should keep it a 6 shot reload game with a very strong penalty for shooting shot 7 or 8.

Steven Bressan

A12207

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

Leave it alone with the exception of clarifying what is there in Appendix D5 s17, 18, and 19.

But what do I know

Edited May 29, 2006 by Round_Gun_Shooter

[spook]

The action on Ricardo Lopez' gun is stock (and I don't mean Performance Centre stock).

I have seen S&Ws that are shootable right out of the box. I have also seen some that are so awful, so heavy, so gritty and ratchety, that I suspect even Ricardo would have trouble shooting them decently. Note also that I said a "slick" action is important--I didn't say a "super-light" action is necessary.

True, his action was indeed slick, but heavy.

[Flexmoney]

Wow...the responses are a bit surprising to me.

I got the impression, recently, that revolver shooters wanted the division to mirror Limited (meaning, you can change some stuff, as long as it's not a one of a kind prototype). What I am hearing here now is that you guys are happy with the Revolver being more like Productions (meaning the changes allowed are VERY few).

[Barrettone]

Wow...the responses are a bit surprising to me.

I got the impression, recently, that revolver shooters wanted the division to mirror Limited (meaning, you can change some stuff, as long as it's not a one of a kind prototype). What I am hearing here now is that you guys are happy with the Revolver being more like Productions (meaning the changes allowed are VERY few).

Hell Flex,

There are only VERY FEW mods you can do to a revo anyway. The overwhelming amount of responses in the poll illustrate that people do want to follow limited more closely. The vocal ones on the thread are the ones stating that they like it more like production. I think the vote will tell the story. IMHO, cylinder swapping and chamferring, trigger jobs, sights, hammer mods, and grip configuration changes are all OK. If you want to swap a barrel, or a cylinder and make a Frankengun, I couldn't really care less, as you can still only shoot 6 shots out of the darn thing. Optics and compensators are a no-no though, as they offer too large of a sight advantage and shot-to-shot recovery. When it comes to "handling characteristics", I just don't see it coming into play in our division (if we choose to be like limited)...the shot count negates it. It has always been about the reload in revo, and I just don't see that changing no matter how much money and work you put into a 6 shooter.

DVC,

Jeff

[Bill Nesbitt]

Has anyone noticed that according to the current rules we aren't allowed to chamfer our cylinders?

The rules we have right now are pretty good. Just need a few clarifications in Special Conditions 17,18 & 19 like Round Gun Shooter said.

And allow us to chamfer our cylinders.

[Genghis]

I've been thinking about getting a revo for a long time, and I think it would be cool if there were two divisions. I'd like to shoot one of the 8-shot .357's. I'd also like to shoot a 625 or something similar. And it would be fun to shoot a revo with a dot. The only problem is that there might not be enough shooters to make a real competition. I guess I could "man up" and shoot in Open, though.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

To go one step farther (my wife tells me I never know when to quit on no one knows me better )

The clarifications I would like to see:

Special conditions:

16. No limit on cylinder capacity, however, a maximum of 6 rounds to be fired

before reloading. A competitor who fails to comply with any of the requirements

above will be subject to Rule 6.2.5.1

17. Any complete revolver (or a revolver assembled from components), produced

by an OFM and available to the general pubic (except prototypes) is

permitted. Providing it has none of the prohibited modifications

18. Modifications such as weights, compensators, ports or other devices to control and/or to reduce

recoil are prohibited. (define control or reduce recoil. Is this the barrel lightening we discussed?) If the complete revolver in 17 is factory ported, it is not a modification it is a production enhancement so is it allowed? (I know the answer but others may not.

19. Modifications which are permitted are limited to:

19.1 Replacement of, or modification to, sights, hammers, triggers, cylinder

releases and cylinders, (including chamfering and moon clip conversions);

19.2 Replacement barrels, provided the barrel length is the same as the

OFM standard; Does a bull barrel meet this???? Does a lighter barrel meet this?? clarify please

19.3 Cosmetic enhancements which do not give a competitive advantage

(e.g. plating, checkering of frames, custom grips);

19.4 Modifications to the cylinder to accept “Moon Clips”. DELETE covered in 19.1

20. “Self-loading” revolvers with retractable slides are prohibited in this

Division.

So, am I out of line on this? Go ahead, I can take it. AND if this needs to be a new thread, someone can break it off I guess.

I have to go clean the ammo out of my car.

Regards,

[haras]

I've been thinking about getting a revo for a long time, and I think it would be cool if there were two divisions. I'd like to shoot one of the 8-shot .357's. I'd also like to shoot a 625 or something similar. And it would be fun to shoot a revo with a dot. The only problem is that there might not be enough shooters to make a real competition. I guess I could "man up" and shoot in Open, though.

Icore has everything you want except a local club.

There is one in Corpus Cristi, Oklahoma City,OK, Thibodaux,LA and Little Rock & Fayetteville,AR. Canyon, TX has an inactive club. There will soon be one in Jackson,MS.

Why don't you start one in Tyler, it would be central to all the above.

[hdgun]

I voted Limited,

Let people do what they want with the exception of dots and comps. We as Revo shooters know, it wont change anything. 6 rounds and reload. Its that simple.

can any one out there give an example of a mod that would turn the tides. I can't.

[pskys2]

I don't think it really matters as to performance for an individual. So I think the question becomes, which venue would help increase participation?

Competitive shooters just like to tinker with their gear. That's why Limited is the biggest division and open is now 2nd. Production seems to be hitting a wall, the lack of tinkering creating a loss of interest?

I'd just like to find that perfect combo that would allow me to shoot 3 years without any work! No broken studs/firing pins, no losing time, skipping by or peened slots. I want to dryfire 100 times a night, shoot 500 rounds a week and wipe the gun when I'm done.

Keep it simple, flexible and fair. Then we can make our own fun.

[Bubber]

I voted to become closer to the limited rules. I would like to tinker with my revo to get it better for me. Is that an advatage? Yes, but is is the same advantage anyone else can get. +1 Waltermity's comment. I would gladly shoot an open revovler but the only venue for that is the open division. In USPSA ther are not enough Open Revolvers to really compete with in local matches so for now six shots iron sights shall rule.

[2alpha]

I'll pick option 5 GONE , just shoot the dang things and be happy with your combined results.