2006 Uspsa Area 2 Championship

[Barrettone]

Thanks for the info.

By the way, are there any good steak restaurants in the area that I should include in my Arizona "to do list" ?

Let me go on record saying that there are a lot of good restaurants in the Pheonix area, HOWEVER, I must warn you that there is ALWAYS a long line if you don't get there early. By early, I mean at least 5:30. There are a LOT of retirees in the area, and people in general that time of year, and they all want to eat out too. We made the mistake of getting to the restaurants at 6:30, and the best wait time we could get at the 3 we tried was 90 minutes (this was Friday and Saturday nights of course). If you have a large party, I think it would be wise to send someone a little in advance while the others shower at the hotel and get ready while "Stinky" gets you guys a seat. He could then have dibs on the bathroom upon your return. Rock, Paper, Scissors Protocol may be in order...

[Newbie]

Jeff, your just too darn funny I still haven't met anyone that can polish ice cream off like you can and not have a brain freeze

Thanks for the offer, I wish I would have known that while I was shooting there in Michigan but my mother and father in law are using the house and will be there for the next month so I figured I would just send it UPS and they can take delivery of it for me so I don't have to mess with it at the airport.

I'm trying to talk her into coming and watching but not too sure if it will be successful. She said something about bullets flying everywhere but we'll see. We are planning on being there from the 3rd - 12th so I think I can hang out with the boys for some time but maybe she'll join us and do the drinking for me since I don't drink. I won't need a rental car, I keep a spare in the garage for the vacations, it's cheaper then renting one

I can't wait, I've heard lot's of good things about the match. Regarding the competition being fierce, no worries here, I'm out just to have a great time and see what it's like to shoot in Arizona. I want to see what I have to look forward to when I retire in 6yrs, 9 months

By the way, how many guys are going to be on your the squad?

Dave

[Barrettone]

Jeff, your just too darn funny I still haven't met anyone that can polish ice cream off like you can and not have a brain freeze

Thanks for the offer, I wish I would have known that while I was shooting there in Michigan but my mother and father in law are using the house and will be there for the next month so I figured I would just send it UPS and they can take delivery of it for me so I don't have to mess with it at the airport.

I'm trying to talk her into coming and watching but not too sure if it will be successful. She said something about bullets flying everywhere but we'll see. We are planning on being there from the 3rd - 12th so I think I can hang out with the boys for some time but maybe she'll join us and do the drinking for me since I don't drink. I won't need a rental car, I keep a spare in the garage for the vacations, it's cheaper then renting one

I can't wait, I've heard lot's of good things about the match. Regarding the competition being fierce, no worries here, I'm out just to have a great time and see what it's like to shoot in Arizona. I want to see what I have to look forward to when I retire in 6yrs, 9 months

By the way, how many guys are going to be on your the squad?

Dave

OK...its on now...Friday night its gonna be twinkies at 10 paces!!! (careful...they have alcohol in 'em...read: "twinkie defense") Must be nice to have spare cars laying around...It's good to see how the rich people live. I take it dinner's on you now since you've got money to burn...I'll put a dent in that portfolio of yours at the local Steak and Ale (retirement might need to be postponed a bit). As for who's in my squad, all I know for sure is that Bob and Jeff Gerak (who I registered with) will be shooting with me. Other than that, we won't know anything until about the 1'st of November from what everyone is telling me. If you make it onto our squad, I'll be sure to have your pasters ready!!!

[AZ Stats Chic]

Will it be possible to ship the ammo to the match hotel prior to the A2 match?

i think you can ship it to the range.

lynn

Ship your ammo to:

Accuracy Speaks

c/o A2 Shooter # ___

3960 N. Usery Pass Rd.

Mesa, AZ 85207

Please use your competitor number in the blank ___ space above. Your shooter # should be on the postcard sent out in August. If you did not receive a postcard (mainly sponsored shooters and those getting in from the waiting list), please contact me and I will supply that info. rlamarca@cox.net

BTW, I have been able to pull 21 people from the waiting list so far - into the match. The deadline for sponsored shooters to get their info in to me is October 13th. So... there may still be some more from the waiting list being able to get into the match.

More info may be available on the RSDC web page: Area 2 / Rio Salado Desert Classic web page

A2 Chic

Edited October 7, 2006 by AZ Stats Chic

[lynn jones]

any word on the stage designs? memory stages or just run'n gun?

lynn

[ipscbob]

Any suggestions for gun stores to shop and browse in around Mesa?

[GeneBray]

Last year's walk through prior to the match was a disaster. Yes you can; no you can't. Get the heck off the stage. During the match some ROs allowed walk through if the stage was not in use. One on occasion an RO allowed us to walk through an idle stage. When the CRO arrived we were summarily told to leave in a very rude and antagonistic manner. What is even worse is if some shooters received special favors (i.e., that the super squad got to walk through or were allowed longer than 5 minutes on some or all stages). (I do not know this for fact but I trust my sources.)

After the match we were insured this would not be the case this year.

I've learned that walk throughs will not be allowed!

What the heckwas the commitment about last year?

I've never seen a major match where shooters were not allowed walk through on a non-interference basis.

I'm seriously thinking of with drawing. I'd rather spend my money where the match staff is shooter friendly.

[AZ Stats Chic]

any word on the stage designs? memory stages or just run'n gun?

lynn

As soon as we have the stage pages back from the printer (match book), they will be posted. I would guess a week or two from now.

A2Chic

[AZ Stats Chic]

Last year's walk through prior to the match was a disaster. Yes you can; no you can't. Get the heck off the stage. During the match some ROs allowed walk through if the stage was not in use. One on occasion an RO allowed us to walk through an idle stage. When the CRO arrived we were summarily told to leave in a very rude and antagonistic manner. What is even worse is if some shooters received special favors (i.e., that the super squad got to walk through or were allowed longer than 5 minutes on some or all stages). (I do not know this for fact but I trust my sources.)

After the match we were insured this would not be the case this year.

I've learned that walk throughs will not be allowed!

What the heckwas the commitment about last year?

I've never seen a major match where shooters were not allowed walk through on a non-interference basis.

I'm seriously thinking of with drawing. I'd rather spend my money where the match staff is shooter friendly.

Mr. Bray...

Due to some inconsistencies concerning walk throughs at last year's match, (that was last year... and let's move on to this year's match) - the executive committee has implemented the following:

"Stages will not be open for physical walk through prior to your squad's assigned shooting time."

Ref. USPSA rule US8.7.5.:

"No person is permitted to enter or move through a course of fire without the prior approval of a Range Officer assigned to that course of fire or the Range Master. Violators may be subject to the provisions of Section 10.6 for willful offenses."

Section 10.6 - Match Disqualification - Unsportsmanlike Conduct.

This is the 19th year of the Rio Salado Desert Classic. Our staff is made up primarily of the same group that started this event. They are some of the most dedicated and friendliest shooters in the world. If you have an issue with any staff member, please contact either of the RSDC Match Directors or the Range Master.

RSDC/A2

Sincerely,

Bob LaMarca

A2/RSDC Match Director

and

Barbara LaMarca

A2/RSDC Registration & Stats

a.k.a. A2Chic

[Chuck Anderson]

So again no walkthroughs? I'll never understand why a match staff would do this, especially with the squad sizes at A2. This is not that big of a deal with 8 or 9 shooters but stick 14-16 in one stage and it gets really tight. I really hope that the stages aren't designed as all memory courses again this year.

I understand that A2 and Superstition have way more shooters trying to get in than they can accomadate but rule "decisions" like this, when the shooters clearly don't want them is not good match management. Just like the changes to Heavy Metal for SMM3G.

The rules quoted above are obviously not intended to be used only as you are using them. If that's what USPSA intended when they made them, there would be no walk-throughs at Nationals before the scheduled time, and there are.

[A lifer]

Changes to this years match:

Yes I did say we would have walk throughs this year. Can I change my mind yes.

The question of fairness comes up about walk throughs.

Whats fair? person A gets there thursday and walks through at his leasure. What about someone who flys in on thursday night and is the first shooter on friday morning is that fair?

If you do not come because of this issue thats ok, its your right to pick and choose which match you shoot. But remember if you have never been to our shoot before and you read some of the post on this site take it with a grain of salt, if we were that bad would we be one of the most popular matches? I doubt it. We will always strive to make this match the best it can be, and we do make mistakes sometimes. Lifes not fair we try to be.

1. You can look at the stages from behind the caution tape.

2. No one is allowed to walk the stages until there squad is scheduled to walk them.

3. Every staff member shooting on thursday will have to finish on thursday, period.

4. A plaque will be given for high overall Junior, Senior, Super Senior, Lady,

for ALL six catagorys.

5. Plaques in class 1st through 3rd all catagorys depending on number of shooters.

6. This year we will ease up on the brain drain stages, keep in mind this is a championship match and I reserve the right to throw in a technical shot now and then.

7. Our largest prize table yet! Might reach $205,000

8. Lots of good food to be had, recommend RWB good people, good food!

Thanks

Paul Caudill

CO Match Director

Area 2 Dessert Classic

[uscbigdawg]

Good job on the no walk throughs before your squad is on the stage. I first saw this at an Area 6 a few years back at Ant Hill. Great...especially since the tape line was about 50m behind the stages. Holy crap. Me, Jarrett and a handful of others with match books trying to figure out what's where. It got silly when someone pulled out the bino's.

Wish I could be there.

Rich

[smokshwn]

Rich,

I don't think the no walk throughs would have been such a big deal if the stages had not required such technical positioning to see the targets. If you did not shoot A2 last year there were at least four stages (#2, The Fence/port stage, The circus tent, and the ship) which did not allow competitors much of a view prior to shooting and when done as a walk through had very tight fault lines which bunched the squad so as to make it nearly impossible to even find the targets and which position they could be shot from let alone leave you a second to make a plan.

It was a good match, but I can certainly see how stage design and no walk throughs combined to create a lot of people being upset.

[Chuck Anderson]

I'll reserve my right to disagree that allowing walkthroughs is somehow unfair. I tend to think it's more unfair at a championship match to make 16 shooters try to walk through a stage like last years bar stage (can't remember the name) that had a shooting area of 5x7yd and targets that could be seen from multiple locations. Throw in the fact that all the divisions are represented on several squads and there are a lot of different people competing for that five minute walkthrough time. I saw a lot of people that weren't big enough bullies last year and either gave up or only got 30 seconds or so of walkthrough time. Instead of the stage being a competition to see who can shoot it the best it becomes a contest to see who can memorize quickly or who's willing to push other shooters during that five minutes (saw it last year)

Don't think because you're turning shooters away that everyone likes everything about the match. A2 has some great things going for it. Location, History, Prize Table. But a lot can change with a staff that is unwilling to listen to shooters or that makes committments and then doesn't come through.

[smokshwn]

Something for everyone especially all RM's and MD's to consider is the concept that fair does not mean equal. It is totally fair to allow walkthroughs the day before given that EVERY competitor has the same OPPORTUNITY to travel in early and view the stages. There may be personal factors that prevent any given SINGLE competitor from arriving early. This is where the inequality of stage viewing may occur.

Given that many competitors still arrived early and watched the RO's/Sponsors shoot the stages, thereby "seeing" some of the stages early still created inequality to those who arrived later. There is never going to be a method to which the OUTCOME of this process can be made equal. The only attainable goal is create fairness by providing the same OPPORTUNITY to each competitor. Whether the competitor can take advantage of that opportunity lies within there own personal factors.

[ong45]

Put me in the camp for allowing walk throughs.

I can understand wanting a level playing field for everone , but i think this policy actually favors the more experienced shooters. Why needlessly add to the stress level of the match?

[TDean]

Hi Barbara,

Do I understand that we CAN walk the COF if we have approval from the RO? (per US 8.7.5)

...or will the RO have instructions to NOT allow?

Due to some inconsistencies concerning walk throughs at last year's match, (that was last year... and let's move on to this year's match) - the executive committee has implemented the following:

"Stages will not be open for physical walk through prior to your squad's assigned shooting time."

Ref. USPSA rule US8.7.5.:

"No person is permitted to enter or move through a course of fire without the prior approval of a Range Officer assigned to that course of fire or the Range Master. Violators may be subject to the provisions of Section 10.6 for willful offenses."

Section 10.6 - Match Disqualification - Unsportsmanlike Conduct.

[feenz]

Changes to this years match:

Yes I did say we would have walk throughs this year. Can I change my mind yes.

The question of fairness comes up about walk throughs.

Whats fair? person A gets there thursday and walks through at his leasure. What about someone who flys in on thursday night and is the first shooter on friday morning is that fair?

If you do not come because of this issue thats ok, its your right to pick and choose which match you shoot. But remember if you have never been to our shoot before and you read some of the post on this site take it with a grain of salt, if we were that bad would we be one of the most popular matches? I doubt it. We will always strive to make this match the best it can be, and we do make mistakes sometimes. Lifes not fair we try to be.

1. You can look at the stages from behind the caution tape.

2. No one is allowed to walk the stages until there squad is scheduled to walk them.

3. Every staff member shooting on thursday will have to finish on thursday, period.

4. A plaque will be given for high overall Junior, Senior, Super Senior, Lady,

for ALL six catagorys.

5. Plaques in class 1st through 3rd all catagorys depending on number of shooters.

6. This year we will ease up on the brain drain stages, keep in mind this is a championship match and I reserve the right to throw in a technical shot now and then.

7. Our largest prize table yet! Might reach $205,000

8. Lots of good food to be had, recommend RWB good people, good food!

Thanks

Paul Caudill

CO Match Director

Area 2 Dessert Classic

Hey paul,Then the same rules must apply for the staff and other's who shoot on thursday! Last year I saw the RO'S taking agood long time looking at stages before the shot them! And that's not fare!

[Reload'n' Lizard]

The "no walk thru" stuff last year was terrible and I swore that I would not come back if that was how the match was going to be run in the future. I was pleased when I heard at the awards ceremony that the problem would be fixed in 2006.

I rushed my app in for the 2006 match but, now in light of the MD's comments above, plan to get my money back and stay home.

Area 2/Desert Classic has always been known for great tough stages which is why it has been so sucessfull however, if the match staff thinks they can ignore what the shooters want and remain sucessfull they are mistaken.

I don't care if the prize table is worth 200 thousand plus bucks it ain't worth it.

LIZARD OUT

[Putty]

Anybody know if the slots are transferrable? I have a friend who is not going and we thought I can buy his slot, yet not sure if the slot, once relinquished, goes back into the "collective". Left messages and emails at Area 2 but no response.

[ChuckS]

Sandoz,

There is a waiting list so I really doubt you can re-direct it.

Later,

Chuck

[konkapot]

+1 to Lawman's thoughts.

Not allowing prematch walk throughs has a negative impact on the customers who go to the match. Note the use of the word "customer."

FY42385

[AZ Stats Chic]

Anybody know if the slots are transferrable? I have a friend who is not going and we thought I can buy his slot, yet not sure if the slot, once relinquished, goes back into the "collective". Left messages and emails at Area 2 but no response.

how long did you wait for a response?

[Putty]

Sandoz,

There is a waiting list so I really doubt you can re-direct it.

Later,

Chuck

Chuck,

Thanks for the direct response. I will queue up next year.

A

[lynn jones]

hey everyone,

please lighten up. i'm sure this year's match will be great. so what if the super squad gets extra minutes to look at the stages, big deal, they're competing against themselves. the staff needs all the help they can get (just kidding). for the rest of us, some will look like fools on some of the stages (like i did last year).

lets go to the match with a positive attitude and have fun and do our best. this match is bigger than the nationals and a lot more fun. so get your bullets loaded and your game on!

let's play,

lynn

Edited October 11, 2006 by lynn jones