"no Where To Hide" Matches

[dirtypool40]

Just kicking around ideas, and wondering.

There is so much great talent out there, I hate seeing the fields dilluted by 87 divisions every match. I know there are true "specialists" who shoot a division because they like very specific gear.

I'm not trying to turn this into a debate, rather a brain storming session. 99% of us have more than one gun, or a gun that could be made competitive in more than one division. We all talk a a good game on here, but are there enough real competitor's out there that want to compete heads up?

I like the idea of a NO WHERE TO HIDE series of matches, where you know signing up there's no where to hide, and that you will shoot heads up in the same division as everyone else.....yes, even the good shooters. There would be no other divisions to switch to last minute so you can grab a trophy, and you would not have any excuses. Just stand on your hind legs and shoot.

I'm also one of the vast majority who thinks Production should allow high cap mags. Would you spend the time and money to travel, stay and shoot a production only match? I've seen a couple advertised, and I'm wondering how they are doing.

So for this discussion.

2 day format 10-12 stages, 250 rounds.

Prizes either by order of finish or random drawing. NOTHING for sandbaggers underclassified.

(As an alternate, I put four classifiers in the match and classify everyone off those, then we can all compete in classes happily.)

On the Production Concept, HIGH CAP MAGS, a B92 holds 15 a G17 17 and so on. No box rule, 140mm gague or any of that.

What do you guys think?

[Bigbadaboom]

There are several matches that I would shoot if the were held at a location closer to where I am so I could shoot them without it interfering with work.

[Flexmoney]

- I was [just 10 minutes ago] thinking of the possibility of running a "Production Division" match. The Idaho match (where is TitanDriver?) was my motivation.

- You might want to work on your marketing. The way your post, and past posts/articles, reads is that ..."a bunch of you a-holes are sandbaggeers and/or hide from real competition...btw, come shoot my match".

- I'd likely skip a match that wasn't run under USPSA Production rules (10 rounds). I don't shoot a 9mm in Production...a lot of USPSA Production shooters don't. I can't see supporting a match that would drive a wedge between the hicap crowd and the current rules (United We Stand...and all that ).

(you said "brainstorming", so I posted what came to mind)

[shred]

You mean, like a single-stack 1911 match or something? That would be cool.

[dirtypool40]

well, I have to admit that while I was not intentionally denigrating anyone (calling them a$$holes) I was going for a little UFC / WWF / PT Barnum / Hulk Hogan thing there.

I would LOVE to run more than one of these, in FLORIDA.

Look at the talent we have, and even if they are not hiding, they are spread over too many divisions. I wanna see a royal rumble!!!

Sure, Jeff Gamrbrell isn't normally thought of as a Glock shooter, but he does carry one every day and instruct with it so I figure he might know which end the bb's come out of.

Danny Clifton has won our State match in Limited (over Frank Garcia) back a few years ago with a G-35. Let's get Frank back too.

SmittyFL has an XD.

PaulW can borrow a gun.

Kevin Insco has a GM card in Limited, but he shoots mostly production now.

Dave Pruitt is back shooting, I bet he has access. Joey Cartwright, David Wilds.

Maybe we could get Armondo back out. Maybe we even see a return of Smokin' Joe Kessler.

Those are just the few GM's in FL that jumped to mind.

And don't think I ONLY want to run a PRODUCTION match. The poll looks like people recognize that Limited is the true test of manly men the world over (that and the UFC ) so I'll have to run a "Limit this" match too. Maybe that will be "NOWHERE TO HIDE 2" or 3.

I'm asking whowould pony up the considerable cash and time, to come shoot a one division match. I would.

In fact in L10 (yuk!) and Production, the only way I am going to shoot those divisions in a big match is where everyone is. I think I've shot two matches in L10, one with a new single stack, and one was the FGN's in 03 as a tune up for the RGN I never got to attend.

You mean, like a single-stack 1911 match or something? That would be cool.

Exactly, but I'm trying to apply that to different divisions. Specifically, High Cap Limited, and Production.

[lppd4]

Not to take anything away from Jimmy and Artie's efforts because they run a great match. But, it used to be limited guns only. It is not the Texas State Limited, Limited 10, Production, Revolver Match. I say shoot whatever you want that will qualify in the limited division and everybody is scored as Limited.

[kruger]

I'd shoot a single class match. Any class is fine by me as long as I have the equipment, or can borrow it.

The big issue is distance. If it's close, I'll be there...

as long as you include at least one Texas star.

Respectfully,

Mark Kruger

[Bigbadaboom]

I would like to see more people get into Match Directing and I would do it if I didn't have to feed my family. With that said, it would be really cool if we had an all Limited State Match, an all Open State Match etc. etc. so that those who wish to could shoot State lvl. matches in more than one division. the issue is getting folks to work them. I wouldn't be able to get enough vacation time all at once to direct a match unless I were between projects and that never happens around big match time.

If someone were to try this I would give as much assistance as I possibly could to include Assitant M.D. and R.O.ing and I could probably talk Robin into doing stats.

[dirtypool40]

Well, we do have a FL-Open, maybe it's time for a FL-LIMITED. Hmm

[Mickster]

If I'm not mistaken you put together a really fine single stack match two years in row several years ago.

That sounds pretty good to me.

[AikiDale]

Screw the divisions, how about a match where you shoot what you like as long as it is at least 9mm and meets the power floor and has no comps or optics.

I would have voted for 4 of the 6 options above.

[dirtypool40]

If I'm not mistaken you put together a really fine single stack match two years in row several years ago.

That sounds pretty good to me.

Alright Sterling, thats enough out of you.

thanks bud, they were fun, and now that I am home and SSD could be USPSA sanctioned, I might just have to again. I learned a lot and could make things a lot easier on myself this time.

[kruger]

Screw the divisions, how about a match where you shoot what you like as long as it is at least 9mm and meets the power floor and has no comps or optics.

I would have voted for 4 of the 6 options above.

If you would be so kind as to describe the differences between your match and a Limited division only match. You can shoot 9mm in Limited, no comp., no optic, and just about everything else is allowed, so it seems to be a very close match.

Respectfully,

Mark Kruger

[38superman]

I was just getting over it.

Ameripsc

Religipsc

Olymipsc

Just when you think it's safe to go in the water, along comes...

Hide and Go IpSeek ???

Edited May 5, 2006 by tlshores

[AikiDale]

If you would be so kind as to describe the differences between your match and a Limited division only match. You can shoot 9mm in Limited, no comp., no optic, and just about everything else is allowed, so it seems to be a very close match.

Respectfully,

Mark Kruger

Hi Mark,

I am thinking of a combined production /limited match without round limits. Limited guns and production guns should be able to compete together I should think. Comps and optics make a significant difference and justify a separate division for them, but the rest of us should be able to shoot heads up.

Dale

[titandriver]

Aaackk, called out by Flex! Actually, I am beyond buried with work and with the ranch, I've been a durn poor lurker even!

The Idaho "Glocks Only" state IPSC championship match follows the basic precepts put forth by DP, to wit: no classes, three Divisions: Full Size, Compact, & Sub-Compact (using Glock, Inc. for reference) no gun restrictions except 140mm mag lengths, everybody gets scored Minor. This match has been wildly successful for the past five years and has filled to capacity (100 shooters) the past four years. Seventy-five percent compete in the full size Division with Compact & Sub-compact about equal.

We have some of the top shooters from the Northwest enter this match, Chuck Anderson (Lawman) really kicked our asses this year, with Tom Kettells & Dave Neth about 10% back. I have yet to hear any complaints pertaining to the "no classes, pick your Division and run, shut up and shoot" format that we employ at this match. We award $100-75-50 to the top three in each Division plus trophies. We pay back the balance of 50% of total entry fees to the shooters by refunding entry fees, this year to fifteen shooters.

So yeah DP, put on the "No Where to Hide" match, I think you'll be surprised at the number of people who will be begging you to do it again next year! Stage design can really negate the comps/optics shooters, in fact we have very, very few who even bother with 'em anymore. Score 'em all Minor & let the best man win!

[JFD]

What Flex said.

[eerw]

Always thought a cool heads up match would be..

show up..for your match fee..

get a gun, 5 mags, ammo for the match,

bring your own holster and pouches...

course match fee would be higher than usual..but you do get a gun when you leave the match..

probably end up being some sort of 1911, glock, springfield or smith match..

but you show up, run a box stock gun, factory mags and ammo..same as everyone else..

[EricW]

Eric,

What will you do if the person that's "hiding" from the big dawgs simply doesn't sign up for the match?

[Ben Stoeger]

What do you guys think?

I think I like 10 Rd production

I think I will continue to shoot production and hide from all the good Limited and Open shooters.

I think if someone put on a Limited match or an Open match, I wouldnt go.

I think if someone put on a Production match, I would say... Why not allow guys to shoot the other divisions they like to shoot?

Edited May 6, 2006 by Ben Stoeger

[Bryan W]

Production Division (10 round version) and Single Stack fits my goals better at the moment.

Just don't tell the good shooters I said that b'cause I'm still in stealth mode over here hiding...

[dirtypool40]

well, everyone seems focused on the part I hardly mentioned , about there being too many places to "hide" at big matches. And there are. I also know there are plenty of small division specialists who rule ass, and shoot a wheel gun, skinny, or "semi DA" gun better than I do. Again, not the point of this thread. In fact I would think it goes without saying that the guy running the match will most likely not shoot it.

The idea was with all the great talent out there, give them one big ring to battle it out in. Like the old "Limited Nationals" or the current SSC.

I guess I should have left everything else out except;

Would a Production only match fill up?

Would you guys prefer shooting Production as high cap instead of Kaliban rules.

Unexpectedly it seems there is interest in a LIMITED only match. That's cool.

[Ben Stoeger]

The idea was with all the great talent out there, give them one big ring to battle it out in.

The problem is getting people to agree on the ring.

[Bryan W]

well, everyone seems focused on the part I hardly mentioned , about there being too many places to "hide" at big matches. And there are. I also know there are plenty of small division specialists who rule ass, and shoot a wheel gun, skinny, or "semi DA" gun better than I do. Again, not the point of this thread. In fact I would think it goes without saying that the guy running the match will most likely not shoot it.

The idea was with all the great talent out there, give them one big ring to battle it out in. Like the old "Limited Nationals" or the current SSC.

I guess I should have left everything else out except;

Would a Production only match fill up?

Would you guys prefer shooting Production as high cap instead of Kaliban rules.

Unexpectedly it seems there is interest in a LIMITED only match. That's cool.

It's hard to say if a big production only match would fill up - I do know I'd be interested in one like that and I'm sure several of the dedicated PRD shooters would feel the same- I would also think many folks would cross over just for that match to shoot a heads up game with their production blasters.

Good thread, BTW.

[SinistralRifleman]

I would like matches with no divisions but the gun and accessories you used are listed in the match results.