D.Hayden Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 I didn't vote, I'd shoot any of them - if they were in a reasonable distance and fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 I like the idea of heads up matches.. no classes, no divisions, nothing..just shoot heads up.. course I was one of those people that shot when it was heads up.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampleworks Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 Something interesting to me would be a modified Production match. All PD rules enforced with the exception of two things. Mag length 140mm max and allow people to claim major or minor. Everything else to do with guns, holsters, and the positioning of such to remain the same. It gives the same sense of whether to shoot for major scoreing or a few more rounds in your gun. Similar to Single Stack division but you can get a few more 9s in a 140mm mag than 40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 (edited) So what exactly would be the point? How would this kind of match not become a "open" only match (or whatever "highest" division fits withing the match limits)? Do you really think that people will choose to shoot their production guns, or single stack or whatever, heads up against open guns? Or their production guns against limited guns? People will just bring out whatever toy will be most competitve, so .. why not just have a matches that aim at one division only? And how would this bring people out of "hiding"? I think the whole "hide" issue is a bit insulting in both this case and the FS articles, but even assuming there where shooters hiding .. why would they come to shoot your match? As for having limited only, or open only, or production only ... how is that different that any match where production shoots against production and limited against limited, except for the fact that shooters might have a choice to shoot a division they like better then another one. If you want to know how you scored overall just ask your stats person to print out the overall results, it is just one more button press in EWS. I'm sorry but as far as I can tell the point of such a match would be to shine a light on those roaches hidding in those dark divisions that some people think shouldn't exist (if such hidding actually exists may be a regional issue, I don't see it my area). However those people won't shoot the match so whats the point? Edited May 6, 2006 by Vlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 I like "heads-up" matches and dislike (rather strongly, actually) 10-round magazine limits. Production and L10 are just Limited guns with user-disabled magazines, after all But then, I'd happily show up and shoot any "single Division" match. I have real guns, Tupperguns, skinny guns, round guns...I'm not afraid to get my butt kicked with any of 'em Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ong45 Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 Things were so much simpler when all we had was open and limited nationals, no complaints about " dilution" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911user Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 Things were so much simpler when all we had was open and limited nationals, no complaints about " dilution" Who needs a seperate limited class to hide in? No limits, no place to hide, only the strong survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBudd Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 This would be perfect for a Para LDA. 18 rounds of 45 or 21 of 40 in a "production" gun! Something interesting to me would be a modified Production match. All PD rules enforced with the exception of two things. Mag length 140mm max and allow people to claim major or minor. Everything else to do with guns, holsters, and the positioning of such to remain the same.It gives the same sense of whether to shoot for major scoreing or a few more rounds in your gun. Similar to Single Stack division but you can get a few more 9s in a 140mm mag than 40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 Maybe you should have a match for single shot revolvers only. No wait they have those but you have to dress in strange clothing. Why is Limited considered the only true division? Who cares who is hiding anyway? If your only concern is what you can take off the prize table then don't bother coming to Area 1 because you will have slim pickings. Why are so many people pushing to remove the 10 round limit from Production when there are 4 states where you can't buy an over 10 round magazine. I shoot Limited 10 instead of Single Stack because too many stages are using the IPSC 9 round standard instead of the old USPSA 8 round per position. I also shoot Production with an XD which holds 14 rounds but wouldn't bother if you let Glocks have 17 rounds which would allow a shooter to skip a reload the same as Limited Vs Limited 10. There have been request to start an Open 10 division so new Kalifornia & Massachusetts shooters can shoot an Open gun. Why do we keep bashing the divisions we have instead of supporting the idea of a different choice? How about I say don't buy foriegn cars because you are taking jobs away from American workers. If you compare simular size cars the $20,000 foriegn car compares to a $35,000 American car & gets better gas mileage. I don't hear anyone on this forum saying we should ban foriegn cars but that would be outside the guidelines of this forum. [/soapbox mode off] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 I can see it coming. Production and Production 10 divisions. Relax, I was just kidding. Tls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted May 12, 2006 Author Share Posted May 12, 2006 Why is Limited considered the only true division? Who cares who is hiding anyway? I never said it was. But I (me personally, my personal opinion) feel that it is the toughest division, and it also happens to have the gear I want to shoot. If the toughest guys shot open or production, or skinny gun, I would be torn. I think iron sited high caps are the shizzle. The other divisions are cool too, I just prefer Limited. In spite of all the watering down, and PC'ing it seems like by sheer numbers, a lot of other people feel the same way. Why are so many people pushing to remove the 10 round limit from Production when there are 4 states where you can't buy an over 10 round magazine. Because there are 46 state where you can (and should) buy a high cap. Because your town has decided I can only drive 35 no matter what the conditions, should we make that a national law? No, of course not, but when I come to your town, I'll drive 35. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT Driver Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 But I (me personally, my personal opinion) feel that it is the toughest division... Don't know about that. Maybe you've forgotten what it's like to shoot minor with 10 rounds in an Open gun world. Ain't so bad with a Limited gun but a Production gun... It hurts but I like pain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 (edited) Because there are 46 state where you can (and should) buy a high cap. Because your town has decided I can only drive 35 no matter what the conditions, should we make that a national law? No, of course not, but when I come to your town, I'll drive 35. Just to clarify .. there are 6 states not 4 that have some form of magazine capacity restrictions. They are California, New York, New Jersey, Mass, Maryland, and Hawaii. These 6 state account for 77 million people (more then 1/4 of the US population) and for 2624 USPSA members (about 1/5 of the USPSA membership). When you look at the data that way it may look different to you then 6 out 50. Edited May 12, 2006 by Vlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 (edited) Never mind. Edited May 12, 2006 by Ron Ankeny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted May 12, 2006 Author Share Posted May 12, 2006 well, again people are focusing on the negative side, I am not saying any one division is better. I'm saying wouldn't a head's up one division match be fun? As to the 6 states, no it doesn't change my mind, I can own high caps, so can shooters in most states, I would like to shoot a match with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 I'm saying wouldn't a head's up one division match be fun? That may be the real point your trying to make, but what people see is a thread title that seems to be calling anyone who's not shooting in the same division as you cowardly. I personally love shooting Limited and welcome the chance to have you hand me my ass at a match sometime, but if I were still shooting L10 exclusively I'd likely be offended by the inference. FWIW..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted May 12, 2006 Author Share Posted May 12, 2006 (edited) ok, in that case I apoligize for the misunderstanding. I have switched guns / divisions at a match (Lim to L10 or SS) to shoot WITH someone rather than avoid them. I like the competition and comaradery that goes with it. I think this thread has run it's course. Edited May 12, 2006 by dirtypool40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 Our club here in Austin has run a couple of "Challenge" matches, where a bunch of folks shoot in one particular division - though it's not a single division match, most folks who have the equipment will shoot in the Challenge division for the fun of it. We've done this w/ Production and L-10, so far, and it's been a blast. GeneralChang even pulled together prize tables for both matches by soliciting spare gear from the members, and finding some other stuff to throw on there, as well. I voted Open, simply because that's what I prefer to shoot, right now. Here in TX, they have a TX State Limited match (with Limited, L-10, and (I think) Production divisions), and used to have a TX State Open match (which may be getting back off the ground, soon, as well). I would definitely shoot division specific matches - though I think they work best as a "big match" format, rather than trying to run monthly matches that way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 I think this thread has run it's course. Agreed. Closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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