Gary Stevens Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 (edited) JD45, Of course this would only be relevant if the scores are posted in the combined mode. Scored by Division, the winner is still at the top with 100 percent. Run N Gun, it is always good to have contingency plans. Gary Edited April 21, 2006 by Gary Stevens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenTexSlim Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Being as new as I am to this game I really can't offer any prediction. In the March & April matches in Waco there were two at each one. I don't think they were the same two, maybe one of them. I have even heard comments that L-10 will be on the way out, I'm guessing b/c of single stack. I'm I just looking at things wrong that you should shoot to be the best in your division -vs- relation to the overall match & the open guys that can run the same COF in half the time you can w/ a single stack or L-10? I think that the guys that will want to shoot single stack probably won't be worrying about being the overall winner of a combined match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911user Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 (edited) I agree that course design will affect SS greatly. If 8-9 round arrays are the norm, SS will be hurt. If you don't shoot perfectly, it means a standing reload; that's pressure. The extra 2 rounds in L10 are comforting at times. The clasification issue is a problem and will be addressed next year (my guess). I'm shooting L-10 just to get a classification in something other than limited. I might shoot more than a local match someday and would prefer not to shoot in limited against the race guns. Edited April 21, 2006 by 1911user Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 I feel Single Stack will stay after the three years, and I thought there was a guy in the philipines kicking some standard division but using a single stack. I have not had this much fun shooting USPSA matches in a long time. Interesting note: I shot Single Stack at the Florida State, due to Jeff Gambrell's gun not working and Jeff dropping out of the match I won Single Stack. As an analysis I combined the all of the Single Stack HF with the Limited 10 HF and calculated Stage Score and Match Scores. I would have finshed 2nd at 97% to the top Lim-10. Also 5 of the top 10 in the combined analysis I calculated would have been Single Stack shooters. The Florida State was not single stack friendly by any stretch of the Imagination. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 (edited) Alan, please stay away from any matches I am shooting Single Stack at. Gary Edited April 21, 2006 by Gary Stevens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Being as new as I am to this game I really can't offer any prediction. In the March & April matches in Waco there were two at each one. I don't think they were the same two, maybe one of them. I have even heard comments that L-10 will be on the way out, I'm guessing b/c of single stack. I'm I just looking at things wrong that you should shoot to be the best in your division -vs- relation to the overall match & the open guys that can run the same COF in half the time you can w/ a single stack or L-10? I think that the guys that will want to shoot single stack probably won't be worrying about being the overall winner of a combined match. Why yes. I was one of the same two both times. Participation in local matches in Texas has been slim, but it has also been pretty good in the major matches so far. I shoot SS to support the Division. Right now I'm buying the occasional classifier in L10 just cause I feel I should get credit. L10 to me is nothing more than two extra rounds, and I wouldn't use a race rig if you gave me one and a bribe to boot. So, what I'm saying is I don't feel disadvantaged at all shooting SS instead of L10. Cleaning magazines isn't an issue either. I used to drop the 10-rounders in the dirt just as often. River City has an annual single stack match. This year will be their fourth annual. I put a bug in their ear to try to get Level II approval and to bill it as the Texas State SS Championship. I hope the suggestion takes. I agree that one positive will be if all the SS matches around the country start playing by common rules. Now if we could just get the price of gas back down so we can cross pollinate. I have a feeling the drive to Barry is going to kill me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 (edited) Gary, Why is my S&W 4506 not welcome in SS division? Do you fear the silky smooth double-action first shot? Or is it the fact that it feeds reliably as it came from the factory that strikes fear in your heart? Or could it be that it does not require a bushing and makes 1911 worshippers feel inadequate? I think there's more than a few Sig 220 owners with the same questions. E Edited April 21, 2006 by EricW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 One has to go back and read the mission statement which refers to John Brownings designed 1911 with accepted improvements that have developed over time. It is probably burried in the previous threads on this subject, but I have stated that I would offer an amendment to include true single stack guns, such as the Sigs or your Smith and Wesson if the Division is accepted full time. I wouldn't swear that I could even get a second on the motion, but I will offer it. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Gary, God may carry a 1911, but I read in the Bible that he loves all single stack pistols equally. Having to sit in the back of the bus is one thing, but not even being allowed *on* the bus...well...I'm not even sure the Jim Crow laws went that far. E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911user Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 (edited) One has to go back and read the mission statement which refers to John Brownings designed 1911 with accepted improvements that have developed over time.It is probably burried in the previous threads on this subject, but I have stated that I would offer an amendment to include true single stack guns, such as the Sigs or your Smith and Wesson if the Division is accepted full time. I wouldn't swear that I could even get a second on the motion, but I will offer it. Gary If L10 goes away and you can't even get a motion seconded for Sig 220s, S&W 4506s, and similar pistols in SS, that really tells the gun manufacturers (and shooters) they aren't welcome in USPSA unless it comes with a large capacity magazine or is a true 1911 copy. That doesn't seem like a very welcome message. Edited April 21, 2006 by 1911user Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan W Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 River City has an annual single stack match. This year will be their fourth annual. I put a bug in their ear to try to get Level II approval and to bill it as the Texas State SS Championship. I hope the suggestion takes. Now, that is some interesting news - Please keep pushing and placing bugs in ears for this to happen Steve - When in August does this match normally roll around? Anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 (edited) Now, that is some interesting news - Please keep pushing and placing bugs in ears for this to happen Steve - When in August does this match normally roll around? Anyone know? It's been on their normal IPSC match day. 4th Sunday in August. Edited April 21, 2006 by Steve J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan W Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Now, that is some interesting news - Please keep pushing and placing bugs in ears for this to happen Steve - When in August does this match normally roll around? Anyone know? It's been on their normal IPSC match day. 4th Sunday in August. Great! I'll add that one to the list then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Locally we've had 1 SS shooter on average. About the same as revolver. My opinion is USPSA isn't an 8+1 round game and if a few $24 mags were keeping IDPA shooters from playing, then I don't think they really want to play our game. I've never thought targeting IDPAers was a good plan. I've never thought dedicating a division to a single model gun was a good plan. The energy would be better spent promoting our current divisions and trying to grow our female membership. Instead it appears the plan is to tear down a current division. However, if L-10 isn't strong enough to survive the SS division, then perhaps it needs to go. In 3 years we'll see. I think it will die. However 3 years is a good time frame to give it a fair chance and it's way too early to tell what will happen. It's something sort of different right now and an excuse to build a new gun. The 3rd year will be very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libertarian Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 I still think that the single stack numbers would be better at local matches if the SS classifiers counted.Doug Yup. I got all fired up to shoot it. But then I found out the classifiers don't get scored, so now I'm back to signing up in L10 even though I would be perfectly legal in SS. (8 round mags and all) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpcop Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 SS division is going to experience some growing pains, but it will survive. It's different, it's fun, you have to learn how to do a reload. What's the downside? Anyway, 3 months or 3 years is nothing when you are used to waiting 8 years or more for some of our local adult beverages to reach maturity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiblaster Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 So far Area 3 has 105 entries and only 4 are Single Stack division entries. It's still over a month and a half away so more will probably register. I would like to see a strong showing for that division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkS_A18138 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Sending in 3 apps for Area 3 this next week. One of them will be a single stack entry!!!!! Gary are you going to be there? Things I love about SS: 1. Open and Limited shooters leave you alone and don't ask how would you shoot the 32 rounds course.LOL 2. The look on an Open and Limited shooters face when you beat them on that stage!!! 3. It's fun and we need to give it a chance and not kill it after 4 months!!!!!!!!! At a local level we have about 4 to 5 reg. shooters every match. But when we have a single stack match in are area they come out of of the wood work. I have 2 SS match's every year we will have 25 to 30 shooters. Thats a lot for down here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyreb Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 I shot SS for the last three months while my Para was in the shop. While I am 100% behind the provisional division and hope it is a success, IMHO stage design and match organization will make or break the proposition. For instance, I found myself having to do a static three mag reload on a stage at one match (18 scored rounds from one small shooting box/area) and being lumped into L-10 at a couple of others due to lack of SS participation. These situations were disheartening to say the least. I also think SS is the path to draw more IDPA types into our sport. Having played that game some over the past couple of years, there are a bunch of people over there getting tired of the equipment rule changes and low round count matches. I know many are cautiously eyeballing our SS. We just need to exhibit a little common sense and courtesy and SS will be a far bigger success than anyone currently anticipates. My 2 cents. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Gary,Why is my S&W 4506 not welcome in SS division? Do you fear the silky smooth double-action first shot? Or is it the fact that it feeds reliably as it came from the factory that strikes fear in your heart? Or could it be that it does not require a bushing and makes 1911 worshippers feel inadequate? I think there's more than a few Sig 220 owners with the same questions. E I like my P220 - but it will continue to live in the nightstand drawer even if legal.. Bring em on and in - if that's not sacrilegious to the memory of JB... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Gary, I actually look forward to shooting a match in the SSD with you. The whole approach that you initiated to get SSD approved as a provisional divsion in my opinion was the perfect approach on how to institute a new divison. Very well thought out concept, and give it a period to survive. The only drawback that I have seen is there is still a confusuion with some people on the classifiers. My recomendation to any body shooting single stack for classifiers, For the regular level 1 and any major match always shoot single stack. This will provide the competitor participation for the analysis of the feasibility of the division. If there is a classifier match shoot your same SSD setup in Lim-10. This will give you valid classifers and the opportunity to move up as you improve. Just my thoughts Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbadaboom Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 I'll shoot it when my Classifiers count in SS. I think a lot of others will also so I think it will last and succeed. It'll just have a slow start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genghis Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Chicken or the Egg: If stage design is the key to whether the SS division flourishes, then that in turn will depend on whether enough MD's take an interest in SS to change their designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkS_A18138 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Stage design should have nothing to do with it. Every SS guy will suffer the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJONES5 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 The Florida State was not single stack friendly by any stretch of the Imagination. Alan You can say that again!!!!!!!!!!!!! pat Stage design should have nothing to do with it. Every SS guy will suffer the same. True but good stage design can make SS a lot more fun to shoot. pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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