Teaching New Competitors

[JD45]

Our club needs something to get more members competing in general. I was thinking about talking some of our better shooters into putting on some free introductory classes for anyone that would like advice.

We have some pretty good shotgunners and benchrest shooters at our club. So that part is well covered.

However, we are not a sanctioned IDPA or USPSA club, so the pot is small.

My question is, would it be a bad idea for shooters who are only in IDPA sharpshooter class(like me and two others) to give basic instruction to shooters for free?

When you consider that 99.99% of them will never pay for a top-notch class from Jarrett or M. Michael, something sounds better than nothing at all.

We are hoping that this will increase match participation in the long run.

[andrewcolglazier]

Our club needs something to get more members competing in general. I was thinking about talking some of our better shooters into putting on some free introductory classes for anyone that would like advice.

My question is, would it be a bad idea for shooters who are only in IDPA sharpshooter class(like me and two others) to give basic instruction to shooters for free?

When you consider that 99.99% of them will never pay for a top-notch class from Jarrett or M. Michael, something sounds better than nothing at all.

We are hoping that this will increase match participation in the long run.

My feeling is that those of us who have been in the shooting sports for a while owe it to new shooters to be as helpful and give as much guidance as seems needed.

I think it's a great idea to offer an introductory course. If the more advanced shooters in your club are generally MM and SS, then I would suggest keeping the class to basic issues oriented to the sport, for example, in IDPA, explaining the equipment rules and the purpose of the sport.

Beyond that, it may be somewhat of the blind leading the blind.

Andy C.

[shred]

It takes a couple things to teach; knowledge and teaching skill. The second is far more important than the first, especially if you know what you don't know and don't try and teach it.

[AlamoShooter]

I Think... you should help new shooters in any way that you can. Somtimes the hardest thing is -Not to help-. untill an indication is given that the shooters want help. Unless it is safety and you must speek up.

Listen and help in areas that are requested, and slip in extra help when you can.

Teaching and guidance are very much diferent. A person that teaches must know how to teach and how much to teach. It is not an easy thing to balance.

Guidance can be given to help a shooter develop by showing them ways that "work" as in not the only way just one way that works.

I know that it can be very hard to help a Sporting Shooter that has had 'Free' help form a good shooter. The instructor end up spending most of the time trying to undo good intentions that caused very bad habits.

Things like =( Put a three foot lead on that target) its no different than telling a hand gun shooter to pull the trigger harder to shoot faster.

Most every shooter/compeditor that desides to learn how to teach,= gives up 5-to-10% of thier own performance in the proccess.

Jamie

[kevin c]

A couple of B class shooters (including yrs trly, mainly on a your man, Friday basis) teach the intro to IPSC at my club. We did have the advantage of USPSA's old intro course to riff off of (with their blessing).

We do have Master and A class shooters, but it's more having the time, the interest, willingness, enthusiasm (and talent) to teach that counts. I remember taking classes in college from Emeritus professors, but the grad students were the ones who provided the meat and potatoes of the course material.

kevin c

[AlamoShooter]

A couple of B class shooters (including yrs trly, mainly on a your man, Friday basis) teach the intro to IPSC at my club. We did have the advantage of USPSA's old intro course to riff off of (with their blessing).

We do have Master and A class shooters, but it's more having the time, the interest, willingness, enthusiasm (and talent) to teach that counts. I remember taking classes in college from Emeritus professors, but the grad students were the ones who provided the meat and potatoes of the course material.

kevin c

+1

JF

[bayoupirate]

Totally Agree with Shred on this one.

I don't think that new shooter would really get much benefit from receiving training from the top shooters.

Think about it like this, Would you want your daughter who has never driven a car to have Dale Earnhart, Jr as a driving instructor?? I'm not sure he'd be the best guy to teach parallel parking?

Our club recently sponsored on introduction to practical shooting class.

Two of our experienced Lady Shooter put it together and ran the class for the day.

It was a great success, and was well attended by the wives of many regular shooters. Some of who had never before fired a handgun.

For it to be successful, you've got to find someone who is a good communicator and has lots of patience. Someone who can break down the basic, that we take for granted, and explain them in a way a brand new shooter can understand and not feel intimidated.

New shooters need Safe Gun Handling instruction and Basic Shoting skills like, Grip, Stance, eye dominance, using the sights, also range commands and some terminology.

All reforced with some practical demonstration and practical experience in a controlled adn supportive environment.

I do think that it would be great if USPSA would develop a course description and some materials that could be used by clubs around the country.

Just my point of view as an active Shooter, High School Teacher, Range Officer and Hunter Safety Instructor.

[HSMITH]

One shooter in particular has been watching and helping me for the last few months, providing both critical feedback and positive feedback. Answering my questions, even the really dumb ones, and helping me any way he can. He is a good solid upper B shooter, the real key though is he understands HOW things happen and WHY things happen. He has 'vision' for what is happening and what needs to happen. It is almost uncanny how much he can see when someone else is shooting. He can take his knowledge and explain it in a way that makes sense.

Like some of the highest paid golf teachers in the world, he understands what is happening, can explain it to you, and fix your game even though he isn't going to win the Masters this year. His coaching, some dry fire, and a little persistance has brought me up probably 10% in the last few months. I would not have made NEARLY the progress I have seen without his help.

You don't have to be the best in the world to be a great teacher, you just have to understand the subject and be able to teach it.

Thanks Mike!!!

[standles]

PLEASE REMEMBER ONE THING!

Don't teach them how to do it. Show them your method, someone elses's method and encourage them to experiment and look at masters to see what they are doing.

Ultimately it is not copying someone elses style but finding one that works for you.

This is not to say it cannot be based on another and have alot of the major errors already panned out. Just remember the style the masters use are what worked for them. Use it as a starting point and morph it into what works for you. Encourage experimentation with grip stance etc. etc.

I have seen way to many new shooters be told "This is the only correct way to stand,grip,sight, etc.etc. This forced them to try and master something that did not fit thier frame etc.

Just yesterday I was explaining grip strength to a new shooter. I showed him how deathgripping the gun actually was a detriment. I told him what I used and encouraged him to spend time punching holes and altering grip strengths (left and right) to see what worked for him.

I told him why it was important,,, I told him how to alter it, I told him what the goal was (sight tracking up and down) then let him go experiment.

Oh well enough of my spew..

Steven

[Bigbadaboom]

I say Help them in any way you possibly can. Especially in the area of safety.

When I started shooting this sport I was brought into it by a good "B" shooter. I chased him untill I was shooting right with him consistantly. now I'm chasing "M" and "GM" shooters. Few people go from "D" to "GM". So I feel that a good "B" shooter has a lot to teach a new shooter just like an "M"/"GM" shooter has a lot to teach "A"'s and "B"'s.

Any positive input is a good thing.

[Crusher]

It takes a couple things to teach; knowledge and teaching skill. ...

And THE BIG ONE, the ability to effectively communicate.

As far as "teaching" skills the for the "beginner" saftey is the most important basis for the games and can not be over emphasized.

USPSA has (at least they used to) a course outline and lesson plan for "introductory level" shooters wishing to participate in USPSA matches. I was one of the instuctors and the course outline and lesson plan was put together well and covered the basics of information necessary to safely play the game.

One club I am a member of used to give this class in the early part of the shooting season and was required for anyone who was new to action shooting (unkown to some active participant who could attest to their ability to negotiate the match safely) or did not hold a USPSA membership card with a classification (for saftey reasons). Several years ago they had abandoned this course but there is talk of reviving it to increace local participation from new club members who have the desire to shoot USPSA/IDPA but are uncomfortable with their current knowledge or skill set.

There is no point in taking a new shooter and swamping them with TMI (too much information) cover the basics (presentaion, reloads, malfuntions) and turn them loose, the shooters with the desire to improve will seek further information and training on their own.

[JD45]

Thanks everybody. I'm going to take all of this into account and talk with a couple of friends about getting something started.

One of them happens to be an experienced IDPA revolver shooter. So, we should have all bases covered.

I mainly want people to see that it's easy to get involved in competitive shooting, and how much fun it is.

Edited March 22, 2006 by JD45

[ArnisAndyz]

I remember when I first started...it was pretty much "learn as you go" during the matches and picking up information and proper procedure/ettiquet from anyone that would help. I think an intro class or shooter briefing would be a great way to get new shooters used to the sport so at least they could go into the first match with some idea of what is going on. If I had it to do all over again I would have like the class to first cover the concept of whats going on, safety procudures and commands, terminology (what is tactical order, what is reload with retention, etc), scoring, and etiquette (pasting targets and helping out, etc), and then maybe the second part of the class actual live fire practice.

[Matthew_Mink]

Our club has done exactly this not too long ago. It was run by a couple of B class shooters. The clubs membership did pick up. One thing to remember is that a B class shooter is going to look like a diety to people that rarely shoot.

[38supPat]

Think about it like this, Would you want your daughter who has never driven a car to have Dale Earnhart, Jr as a driving instructor?? I'm not sure he'd be the best guy to teach parallel parking?

Geez, he won't even drive in a little rain

[rwmagnus]

Rather than starting or conducting a class think about a mentoring program. The advantage of a new shooters class is it might bring out those that would otherwise just watch from a distance. Mentoring allows the mentor to stick by the new shooter for a few matches sorta breaking the ice.

Then introduce them to this board as there is a wealth of info here.

I agree with the others that say do what you can to grow the sport and help those who are looking for help.

[sandman_sy]

Just finished my training 2 weeks ago, and it was a pretty good training, SAFETY was always emphasized, Instructors always reminded us of this. 8 days training was a 3 day lecture and 5 days live fire and dry fire. they even had a fellow shooter(a lawyer) to discuss the laws and penalties that shooters encounter.

the club had all the best shooter form as a training team, for me it was the best training, older batches even complained why we had a great training mentors. and they plan to continue, coz according to them, what good if you're the best if you don't pass it on.

But classes just are limited information, then you start looking for more info, for me, the net, and i found this place. Helped me a lot (they should add this as a must read forum for new shooters). I'm helping my co-trainees in growing there skill by advertising this forum, telling them that it helps a LOT to read from the MASTERS around the world.

Edited March 23, 2006 by sandman_sy

[JD45]

I keep telling shooters about the B.E. forum. You would be surprised that most of the hobby shooters(and even IDPA shooters) I have talked to have never heard of this website or any linked to it.

If I can make the spare time to do it, I want to compile a shooters resource guide for our club. A few pages of top websites, the four safety rules, and some tips on getting started.

Plus, there should be one page dedicated to explaining that USPSA and IDPA have divisions and classes. At the same time explaining that the rumor about mandatory $3500 pistols to shoot "ip-sick" is totally false.

[RacerX1166]

+1 on the mentoring program. We used to have the same 'new shooter class' run for a few years by yours truly (when I could keep up in B class) but, despite being a pretty well known club in the area, have had trouble filling classes lately. Not due to lack of interest but lack of commitment by those who said 'yeah, I'll show up for the class'.

We've started an informal program during our club's scheduled Thursday evening practices. Those of us on the pistol committee keep an eye on/foster new folks and get them to where they can get through a match safely (and don't let them shoot one until they're ready), then progress through the finer points like grip, economy of movement, etc. Doing this during practice goes a long way toward improvement because of the relaxed, unstructured atmosphere. It's worked out well so far and has cultivated some motivated shooters who are now valued members of our club.

[kevin c]

...One thing to remember is that a B class shooter is going to look like a diety to people that rarely shoot...

Well, why else would I do it?

The mentoring is a great idea, but it takes even more commitment on the part of the mentors.

By way of example. Time and a place to practice are at a premium at my club, with most Sundays taken up by one or another match, and IPSC practice being limited to half of Saturday (the rest of the time is used to build the stages for the next day's match). When working on specific skills or techniques, I find I like working by myself. But running specific drills in a thought out program to improve is hard when you share space with others, especially if they are asking for guidance.

Another example, it has been said here on this forum, you improve by watching and shooting with the best. When the best tend to squad together to learn from the top shooters, that leaves the middle and beginning shooters on their own.

Bluntly put, getting better skillwise sometimes requires a degree of selfishness, whereas promoting the sport, the club, and insuring the long term survival of both requires a degree of selflessness.

Don't get me wrong - there are folks who are willing to share and to teach, and I try to do my share, but the commitment to mentoring is a big one, and burdensome if there are only a few who are willing to offer their practice and match time, as well as their opportunities to learn from others, in order to further the club and the sport.

kevin c

[Bear1142]

JD,

Where is SC are you? I'm in Atlanta. If you think your group would be interested, I will come up for a one day basic competition class. PM me for the details. How many people do you think would be interested?

Erik

[JD45]

PM sent.