caps Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Don't kill me if I've missed something but how come the Top 20 in Production Division list shows a guy called Olhasso as a Grand Master with 93% but there are two Master graders with higher percentiles? Shouldn't the M guys be upgraded? Ditto for other guys in Limited 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Once you break the threshold of 95%, you are a GM even if your active percentage drops below it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 It's a list of the Top-20 in each class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerwas Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Once you break the threshold of 95%, you are a GM even if your active percentage drops below it. So, if you attain a classification, there is no way to drop back to a "lower" rank even if your scores don't stay up to par? Thanks for the clarification! (may be a stupid question, but,,,,I'm still new to the sport) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 I think you can petition (USPSA) to lower your classification for a good reason (likely you cut your leg off with a chainsaw), but it doesn't happen automatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short_round Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 you ... petition ... "to lower your classification for a good reason (likely you cut your leg off with a chainsaw)" wow ... that sounds like one of the top five for the "You might be a sandbagger if" list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidball Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 you ... petition ... "to lower your classification for a good reason (likely you cut your leg off with a chainsaw)" wow ... that sounds like one of the top five for the "You might be a sandbagger if" list. The USPSA classification system is a good system . . . but like most things in this life, somewhat imperfect . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caps Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 wow ... that sounds like one of the top five for the "You might be a sandbagger if" list. I was wondering the opposite - becoming a "grandbagger". Someone could shoot the same six classifiers over and over and over again until he makes GM for bragging rights, but he can't make the GM cut at a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 I was wondering the opposite - becoming a "grandbagger". Someone could shoot the same six classifiers over and over and over again until he makes GM for bragging rights, but he can't make the GM cut at a match. That seems to happen...but not even for that intentional reason.. you can put together a grouping so six classifiers that score well..afterall those stages are only 12-18 rounds.. but in the course of a 200-300 round match..it is harder for shooter to shoot their classification..especially if they are not a pro or serious amateur.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Off the top of my head, I'd say a 'real' M shooter could grandbag a GM card with a little work and ability to pick classifiers and reshoot them a few times before sending one in. An A might be able to so with more work. After that.. you'd better find the HHF-mismatched classifiers and only those. But, if you flip through the major match results on USPSA, it's pretty clear there aren't many GM's way down the list with any regularity. What is obvious is there are a few 'super-GMs' that consistently blow the curve for everybody else. If you can shoot a GM % at the US Open Nationals, you'll be 1st, 2nd or 3rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 (edited) Shouldn't the M guys be upgraded? Ditto for other guys in Limited 10. ROTFLMAO. Stu pretty much nailed the classification system. Also, there are a few shooters that came into IPSC from the higher ranks of the precision shooting sports and it's not uncommon to see them absolutely burn a classifier to the ground shooting from Box A, only to flounder like a fish out of water on long field courses. Especially if their mental management program sucks and they fold up like a cheap house of cards (not that I have any first hand knowledge). To be honest, for shooters that can shoot a group and who also participate in a lot of club level matches, I don't see how they could help but to have a classification that is higher than a comparable finishing percentage at a major match. Off the top of my head, I'd say a 'real' M shooter could grandbag a GM card with a little work and ability to pick classifiers and reshoot them a few times before sending one in. Not to stir up a hornet's nest, but I personally know of 3 shooters (I am one of them as is another forum member) that aren't even "real" M class shooters according to match finish, and we could easily get a GM card by just shooting a lot of club level matches in grip it and rip it mode. Certainly you have similar shooters in your area? Edited March 19, 2006 by Ron Ankeny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 I edited in my post after Ron posted his, but basically there are a very few curve-blowers at major matches. About 3 of 10+ GMs shot GM percentages at the last few US Nationals I looked at. Everybody else falls down from there, so I was referring to USPSA-classified 'M' shooters, not match-percentage shooters. I can't remember the last time somebody moved up to GM on match finishes, so clearly there's a disconnect, but short of making everybody shoot the nationals and re-classifying everybody, we've got what we've got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopalong Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 There has GOT to be something WRONG with those lists........................... I'm on one and I'm not very good! HOP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 There has GOT to be something WRONG with those lists...........................I'm on one and I'm not very good! HOP you and me both..I am on two of them..how and the heck does that happen???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 I am on two of them..how and the heck does that happen???? I think it happens from shooting classifiers. Bad boys, stop that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 I'm still trying to figure out how the top guy in A Open has a Master %. Must have asked to get moved down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driver8M3 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 grandbagging or not...if you reach the level of GM in USPSA, you have some decent shooting skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 What's really bad is when you look at the Revolver top 20 list. Check the guys in the master column, they're a little on the low side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 heeeeyyyy...look at that. Chuck and I are in the top 20 revolver Masters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I'm still trying to figure out how the top guy in A Open has a Master %. Must have asked to get moved down. Must be something clerical going on there. Click on the guy's name and check out the percent listed on his classifier records. See if that doesn't make you scratch your head. FWIW, if you move up because of a bogus score and the bad score is deleted, you will move back down, but the database will still list your highest percentage even though it is not valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driver8M3 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Must be something clerical going on there. Click on the guy's name and check out the percent listed on his classifier records. See if that doesn't make you scratch your head.i figured it was someone that used to be a master, and then stopped shooting for a long time. check out the year he joined...1989. a lot can happen in 17 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I'm still trying to figure out how the top guy in A Open has a Master %. Must have asked to get moved down. I work with Hal. He made master a long time ago, then stopped shooting as his family obligations changed. A few years ago, he shattered his left shoulder mountain biking. He still cannot hold his left arm level. He requested a downgrade due to the injury. The Section Coordinator and Area Directors approved the move, since his scores at matches and classifiers are actually low B, upper C. Hope this explains that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamar Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 (edited) Hi Guys, Yes, looks like I am at the top of the A class in open. Let me explain whats going on so you guys can understand whats happening there. First a little background: As one of you said, I joined way back in 1989. I was newly married and my wife worked nights and weekends. This gave me a ton of "me" time. I was introduced to this game and the very first shooter I ever saw shoot a stage was GM Mark Mazzotta. I was hooked and could not believe that somebody could shoot like that. I made it my mission to get to that level. My first year I spent watching and video taping all the great shooters, TGO, Enos, Barnhart and Mazzotta. I would spend hours at night studying their reloads, footwork, small details like not sticking the gun into a window or port, I heard Robbie once say he was a lazy shooter, he eliminates every movement that doesnt help him shoot. I adopted that principal and went to work. I hear alot of shooters say how much they shoot in practice, well, I would shoot 1000 rounds a week, sometimes more. One shot draws, Target transitions, you name it, I practiced it. Along with the live fire, I also dry fired at home between 2-2.5 hours a night. That also included reloads using full magazines of dummy rounds so the weight would be the same as match day. I shot a match at least once a week, sometimes two or three. I made Master class in 1992. 1992 was also the year I retired from the sport. We started a family and my wife was afraid of all the lead and powder in the house (she's in the medical field). I agreed to stop plus I was starting to get burned out. We agreed that when it was time, I could start shooting again. I didnt even shoot one shot in 13 years. In 2003 I had a very bad mountain bike accident ( fell 12 feet at 28 mph and landed on my shoulder. I was 6-1 265lbs at the time) I shattered my shoulder into 15 pieces. Two surgeries later, and 1 year of rehab my range of motion and usage of the left arm is about 50%. I can hardly hold and shoot my Para weak handed. I cannot at all shoot prone because my left arm doesnt move that far. I returned to the sport after Dans S. came to work for the same company I work for. I shot in L10. My match results of course were not even close to what I was doing in '92. I was shooting high C and low B scores as you can see by my classifier results. Seeing what my limitations were after a year, I requested and was granted a classification of B class in L10. Because of the rules, I could no longer hold an M rating in open ( you can only be classified one class below your highest) so my open class was dropped to A. I will tell you this though. I am not going to let my shoulder get in my way. I will continue to shoot and try my best and hopefully move back up to maybe A class. I hope you guys didnt mind the long reply but I wanted you folks to know why things are the way they are. DVC Edited March 22, 2006 by Hamar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Thanks for your reply and I'm sorry if I put you on the spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 There's nothing to apologize for, Hal. Thanks for the inspirational story! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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