Carmoney Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 (edited) Aiight, boys, I got to do a little target shootin' today with my "new" 627-4 8-shot 9mm wheelgun, and here's what I learned: 1. With my arms resting across the trunk of my old Caprice, I got marginally acceptable accuracy at 15 yards--like around 2" to 3" groups, which sure doesn't seem all that great to me. Then again, they were 8-shot groups, so that makes me feel a little better--lots of times there were 5 or 6 shots grouped pretty decently with a flyer or two. Definitely none of those nice one-ragged-hole groups you like to see at that close distance, though--I'm not sure using 9mm ammo would be the best for 50-yard standards or some crap like that. 2. The WWB and AE 147-gr. TC definitely shot tighter groups than the ammo with lighter bullets, like that Rob guy said. The WW 124-gr. ball was about the same as the WWB value-pack 115-gr. stuff. I'm planning to shoot the value-pack 115-gr. though--in my mind, being able to buy ammo anywhere in the US for $10-11 per 100 rounds is the whole point of this exercise. After the paper, I played around on a 6" steel plate at 30 yards and found I had no problem ringing it 8 for 8 shooting unsupported at medium speed. 3. Recoil on all tested loads felt roughly the same. Very pleasant. Nice fast aural feedback on steel. 4. The 115-gr. value pack stuff from Wally World chronoed at a very consistent 1140 fps for 131 p.f., exactly right for ICORE or USPSA minor, in my mind anyway. I managed to not shoot the chrono. (Don't laugh, this has been an issue for me in the past...twice.) 5. Very clean--the 9mm stuff left only light grey-black ash in the usual places, that created no binding or other problems in several hundred rounds with no brushing or cleaning. Brownells moonclips all dropped in smoothly and ejected very easily (you could pretty much dump them out, barely needed to touch the ejector rod) from start to finish. Virtually no dirt under the star. 6. As the gun started getting dirty, my 5 pound DA started giving the occasional click, starting with the WWB 147-gr. for some reason, then finally got a click with the 115. Went downstairs and tweaked the action up to 6 pounds (measured on my recording RCBS trigger scale) and got perfect ignition thereafter. Now, I'd have no problem trusting it to shoot a big match, at least in terms of handling and reliability. Could've stayed lighter with the Federal AEs, of course. 7. I now have a nice start on getting my revolver trigger finger callous back where it belongs. (Apparently, I've been getting a little soft over the winter.....) Mike Edited February 3, 2006 by Carmoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Nice report. It would be cool to see a wheel gun tearing up Productin in USPSA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 (edited) Nice report! Think reloading 9mm with .356/.357 bullets would help in the accuracy dept.? Edited February 3, 2006 by spook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey357 Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Thanks for the "Range Report", Mike!!!...I'm just guessing, but...since it's a "Moonclip Gun", even WITH your advanced "Dremelology", you should still be able to use .38 Super ammo without any problems, right? Right?!?....mikey357 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airedale Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Great report Mike. I really enjoy my 627. I've shot it in L10. I may try it in production but hate moving my moonclips holders Love the new avitar. And we know what you do.....the "old Caprice" is really last years Porsche that you've discarded for this years model Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefty45 Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Mike , Thanks for posting your results, Great info! New moonclips are on the way Airedale, L-10 minor sounds like fun Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted February 3, 2006 Author Share Posted February 3, 2006 Nice report.It would be cool to see a wheel gun tearing up Productin in USPSA... Kyle, I'm pretty committed to shooting my .45s in the USPSA Revolver division, but I must admit I recently picked up a kydex N-frame holster that would be Production-legal! Thanks for the "Range Report", Mike!!!...I'm just guessing, but...since it's a "Moonclip Gun", even WITH your advanced "Dremelology", you should still be able to use .38 Super ammo without any problems, right? Right?!?....mikey357 Yep, just as Rob L. indicated, all the rotary work is done to the extractor star. The actual cylinder isn't touched (other than I improved the chamfer just a little, but that's optional), so .38 Super works just like before. For those who want to try this--go easy, and keep in mind you may be affecting the ratchet that controls timing (carry-up) if you're not careful. Without those little locator pins, the extractors on the newer guns are held in place by the fit between the outside angled edges of the star to the cylinder. On mine, the star definitely has more "wiggle" now than it had before, guess I wasn't quite careful enough--however, this particular gun tended to lock in way early anyway, so it hasn't hurt anything. I can see where another specimen with "closer" timing might have problems after cutting the star the way I did this gun. Nice report! Think reloading 9mm with .356/.357 bullets would help in the accuracy dept.? Yeah, Bjorn, I suspect you could work up a load that would be fairly accurate--the 147-gr. factory loads showed some decent potential. DougC has theorized that the longer bearing surface of the heavier bullets helps stabilize things after the bullet makes the longer jump to the forcing cone--I'll bet he's exactly right. (By the way, those cone-shaped 147-gr. bullets, both AE and WWB, drop right in easy--didn't seem to slow the reloads down one bit.) On the other hand, if I'm going to be handloading the ammo, I figure I might as well just shoot .38 Super. The real attraction to me of this 9mm "conversion" is the ability to shoot the cheap generic 9mm ammo and give my reloading elbow a rest. I can see a scenario where I might need (or choose) to buy ammo at a match destination--as long as there's a Wal-Mart around, I'm all set! I also intend to check out some of the other cheapie stuff, like Blazer and Wolf. It's all pretty much 115-gr. stuff, though, so I'll bet I wind up with accuracy results very similar to the WWB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 On the other hand, if I'm going to be handloading the ammo, I figure I might as well just shoot .38 Super. The real attraction to me of this 9mm "conversion" is the ability to shoot the cheap generic 9mm ammo and give my reloading elbow a rest. Yeah that makes a lot of sense. I still wish S&W would make a bunch of dedicated 9x19mm revolvers in L-Frame and N-Frame for these purposes... Is the barrel diameter of the .38 super 8-shot .357? If so, when you're going to shoot super, you might want to try reloading it with 158 grain .357s I bet at 125 PF that is one SOFT shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middle Man Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Nice report.It would be cool to see a wheel gun tearing up Production in USPSA... My thought exactly upon reading the Carmoney, Dremel, & Associates report. Not that moi, with only 5 Classifiers and a mint D card, would tear anything up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xuxupecheur Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Mike: You've got it, WWB all the way !!! As I posted the other day, I'm in the market for a 627. If anybody like Randy Lee could do the conversion for me I'll strongly consider the 38 Super version. In case Randy does not accept, who should I check with. Cheers, Julio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
festus1 Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I bought a Ruger speed six in 9MM a year before IDPA disallowed them and sent it off for some work to be done on it. Well, it came back just after IDPA's infamous new rule book took affect. ARGGGGGGG! It was cool gun, but because it did not weigh very much and could not make major I sold it. A 9MM N frame sounds like a great idea though. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R112mercer Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Nice range report, Mike. Makes me want to drop the $1k on one of those Supers... Of course, this is right after I figured out how to duplicate one in my .38/.357 eight shooter with Short Colt brass. And we know what you do.....the "old Caprice" is really last years Porsche that you've discarded for this years model No, it really is an old Caprice. Mike's house servant's old Caprice, but an old Caprice none the less . Mike lets him hold the chrono screens when he checks his loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted February 3, 2006 Author Share Posted February 3, 2006 It's a 1993 Caprice, with 162,000 miles, and it's sitting out in the parking lot right now. (Pretty cool car, actually--it's got the LO5 350 cop motor--runs out pretty good.) I do have a car that's a little newer, but I still like driving the Caprice. My buddies here at the shop call it "the battle cruiser." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
festus1 Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 It's a 1993 Caprice, with 162,000 miles, and it's sitting out in the parking lot right now. (Pretty cool car, actually--it's got the LO5 350 cop motor--runs out pretty good.) I do have a car that's a little newer, but I still like driving the Caprice. My buddies here at the shop call it "the battle cruiser." Wow, the LO5 - talk about sandbagging!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopalong Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Festus 1 You hit the nail on the head !!!!!! His reputation precedes him that is for sure. I'll even wager he has tuned the intake ports on that LO5 with the Dremmell tool !!! Porch Guard ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 I've tuned intake ports, chambered rifles, crowned teeth.....even cut Sam's umbilical cord.....all through the magic of Dremel. It's more than a tool--it's a way of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzShooter Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 After they saw my dremology my friends were kind enough to take my dremel away. Some are artists. Some are barbarians. Power tools and I do not get along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGO Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 The search continues. I found a few boxes of the 147 TCMC WWB ammo and went out to the range. Earlier in the day Frank Glenn long throated the forcing cone in my 627 so I was testing both ammo and that modification. I tried 115 FMJ WWB, 115 JHP WWB, 147 JHP WWB and the 147 TCMC. As before the TCMC stuff shoots much better than anything else. The 115 fmj is terrible. 115 jhp shoots a couple inches at 25 as does the 147 jhp. The 147 TCMC shoots much better so I moved a target out to fifty and shot one 8 round group standing as the sun was going down. I brought that group home and it measure 4.270 inches. I am sure it could bo better from a rested position but it is a moot point since this is good enough for me. I know I can't hold better than this standing. Conclusions. 147 tcmc is the load I have to shoot in the super. None of the others are accurate enough in my 627-4 for the IRC. 115 jhp and 147 jhp shoot well enough for all other fast shooting at closer (25 and in) range. 115 fmj is unusable in this particular gun. My fingers are getting tired from loading and unloading moon clips. I can't shoot my revovlers as fast as I can my autos. Jerry is amazing since he is able to compete with the autos at some event's. I need to keep practicing. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R112mercer Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Rob, Get a demooner to unload (or make one out of a piece of old pipe with a 1/8" ledge cut into it to cam the spent round off) and use a small set of channel-locks to squeeze tight rounds onto the clips. Have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefty45 Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 My conversion is nearly complete. After some work on my main spring to get 100%ignition,I am looking for the brand of factory ammo that fits the Brownells 38 super moonclips the best-Here is what I've tried so far. Remington-- best so far WWB--very tight in the clips Blazer brass-- a little loose in the clips, although very close to Remington S&B--wont fit with out heavy presuure Anybody tried other brand or had different results with the above ammo? All in all, this should be a fun gun to compete with in L-10 minor and ICORE Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted February 11, 2006 Author Share Posted February 11, 2006 Anybody tried other brand or had different results with the above ammo? Phil, with most of my moonclips, the WWB ammo snaps in easily by hand. I have a remooner down there that came with the gun, but I don't need to use it with 9mm. As with any moonclips (except perhaps Hearthco), if they're so tight the cartridge can't turn while it's snapped in the clip, it will cause binding and reload hang-ups. At least that's been my experience. I had a few Brownells moonclips that were pretty tight with WWB stuff, so I simply relieved them with my trusty (quick drum roll, please) Dremel. A quick buzz with the correct grinding stone, and they all give way to my intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 and they all give way to my intentions. Dont think we wont hear that again somewhere..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter-Booth-A43995 Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 Mike, Does the twist in the barrel have anything to do with the accuracy of the different ammo, esspecially the different weight bullets? Some of the 9mm barrels were 1/10, and some were 1/16. the 38 Spec was supposed to 1/18. I know I really improved the accuracy of a 9mm bullseye gun going to 1/16. What is the twist in the S&W 38 super? Hunter/jb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 7. I now have a nice start on getting my revolver trigger finger callous back where it belongs. (Apparently, I've been getting a little soft over the winter.....)Mike You're not as soft as I am. I use a band-aid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted February 12, 2006 Author Share Posted February 12, 2006 Mike, Does the twist in the barrel have anything to do with the accuracy of the different ammo, esspecially the different weight bullets? Some of the 9mm barrels were 1/10, and some were 1/16. the 38 Spec was supposed to 1/18. I know I really improved the accuracy of a 9mm bullseye gun going to 1/16. What is the twist in the S&W 38 super? Hunter/jb John, that's a good question.....any of the technically-inclined folks here know the answer?? (Again, mine's gonna need to work "good enough" with the cheapie 9mm WWW 115-gr. or I'll just revert to .38 Super and be done with it. One nice thing about this "conversion" is you're not burning bridges, no problem going back to--or even mixing in--the original designated caliber.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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