EGW vs Extreme Engineering Ignition kit

[bootcamp]

Been doing some research and it seems like both EGW and Extreme Engineering make good ignition kits for the 2011 platform.

 

Which would you guys prefer?  Looking to get about a 2-2.5# crisp trigger pull.  Maybe adjust the sear spring to sub 2# after a bit of seat time.

[Guy Neill]

Both are good.

 

It comes down to your preferences and possibly price.

 

 

[davsco]

haven't tried either, but i put these in a couple of my 2011s and they're pretty nice

 

https://www.1911store.com/Tuned-Trigger-Group-BCG-Brazos-Pro.aspx

 

 

[Maximis228]

They are both great. I prefer the EE kits myself. EGW seems to be the standard for most smiths these days. 

 

+1 for the tuning fork sound the EE hammers make compared to the dull sound of the EGWs hammers. There is no functional different between the two outside the sound they make. 

[CHA-LEE]

Keep in mind that neither are "Drop In" kits. Both will need to be precision fit to the specific gun they are being installed in.

[Seakphotog]

You could also try the Atlas Perfect Match Ignition Kit with Lightened Hammer

 

https://atlasgunworks.com/product-details?id=2267175

[Maximis228]

5 minutes ago, Seakphotog said:

You could also try the Atlas Perfect Match Ignition Kit with Lightened Hammer

 

https://atlasgunworks.com/product-details?id=2267175

That is mostly an EGW kit. 

[Seakphotog]

18 minutes ago, Maximis228 said:

That is mostly an EGW kit. 

Yes, but individually handpicked for proper fit, according to Atlas.  I haven't tried the kit but just wanted to throw it out there as an option. Atlas has a YT video discussing it which may be worthwhile.

[Maximis228]

16 hours ago, Seakphotog said:

Yes, but individually handpicked for proper fit, according to Atlas.  I haven't tried the kit but just wanted to throw it out there as an option. Atlas has a YT video discussing it which may be worthwhile.

Parts need to be fit to the gun. AGW is doing nothing more than creating kits out of parts they like. Thats it. And they most likely sell the parts they don't want to keep for their own builds. 

Edited May 10 by Maximis228

[HOGRIDER]

19 hours ago, bootcamp said:

Been doing some research and it seems like both EGW and Extreme Engineering make good ignition kits for the 2011 platform.

 

Which would you guys prefer?  Looking to get about a 2-2.5# crisp trigger pull.  Maybe adjust the sear spring to sub 2# after a bit of seat time.

Having used several of both, I have found the Brazos' kit to be an excellent pre-tuned drop in kit "IF YOU HAVE A GOOD FRAME"!

 

https://www.1911store.com/Tuned-Trigger-Group-BCG-Brazos-Pro.aspx

 

Bob uses an EE hammer and custom fits an EGW long sear in a 2011 jig; and it flat out works as advertised!

 

Quote

The “Brazos Pro” label denotes the best of the best. We apply this term to our group of trigger parts because each component meets the Brazos Custom standard for reliability and durability. This is not just a bag of parts. The hammer and sear have the angles stoned and fitted and the primary and secondary angles have been cut, and all engagement surfaces have been polished. The sear spring has been pre-bent to be close to a drop-in fit. The group includes the same parts Bob uses in the Brazos Pro line of custom guns:

 

Requires very little after-install tuning:

 

Quote

For best results the sear spring may need to be adjusted and all safety checks will need to be performed.  

 

Edited May 10 by HOGRIDER
update

[bootcamp]

19 hours ago, Guy Neill said:

Both are good.

 

It comes down to your preferences and possibly price.

 

 

 

Thanks!  Yep the price difference between kits is pretty negligble.  

[bootcamp]

18 hours ago, Maximis228 said:

They are both great. I prefer the EE kits myself. EGW seems to be the standard for most smiths these days. 

 

+1 for the tuning fork sound the EE hammers make compared to the dull sound of the EGWs hammers. There is no functional different between the two outside the sound they make. 

Thanks!  That's interesting that the hammers make different sounds!

[bootcamp]

18 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

Keep in mind that neither are "Drop In" kits. Both will need to be precision fit to the specific gun they are being installed in.

 

I think that's the part i'm most excited about.  These guns are all about learning, if you choose to.

[bootcamp]

17 hours ago, Seakphotog said:

You could also try the Atlas Perfect Match Ignition Kit with Lightened Hammer

 

https://atlasgunworks.com/product-details?id=2267175

Thanks!  Will most likely choose between EGW or EE.  I'm just not sure it'll be matched to my frame and i'd rather risk fitting the parts myself.

[bootcamp]

34 minutes ago, HOGRIDER said:

Having used several of both, I have found the Brazos' kit to be an excellent pre-tuned drop in kit "IF YOU HAVE A GOOD FRAME"!

 

https://www.1911store.com/Tuned-Trigger-Group-BCG-Brazos-Pro.aspx

 

Bob uses an EE hammer and custom fits an EGW long sear in a 2011 jig; and it flat out works as advertised!

 

 

Requires very little after-install tuning:

 

 

 

In my extensive research on this site, i've read that Brazos is EE.  But who knows.  For all we know these parts all come out of one factory and get rebranded throughout the industry.

Edited May 10 by bootcamp

[zzt]

Well, I have experience with three of the kits mentioned.   I started with Cylinder and Slide kits.  They are really from EE.  I always have to adjust the hammer hooks, because they are too short at an average of .016".  Other than that, they are fine.  I like their hammer strut better than EGW's.

 

I have used many EGW kits.  They are 'kits" in name only.  They are individual parts dropped into one bag and called a 'kit'.  That being said, they are perfect.  Every one I've installed on good frames required no fitting, except for the HD disco.  That almost always needs fitting.  If the holes are not in the correct places, you'll have fitting to do.  For the last 4 or 5 Trigger jobs I used individual EGW parts with their extended sear.  I put a True Radius on it and cut a secondary. 

 

Just for fun I tried a Brazos trigger kit in a Brazos frame.  Dropped right in with no fitting.  It doesn't come with a disco, so order one with.

 

I get dealer pricing on both the EGW and EE kits, but prefer to use the EGW, because of the long nose sear.  Also, if you fit a TS to an EGW sear and it ever wears out, you can fit an EE sear, then refit the safety.  If you wear it out again, buy a Harrison Design TR sear and refit the safety. 

[HOGRIDER]

2 hours ago, bootcamp said:

 

In my extensive research on this site, i've read that Brazos is EE.  But who knows.  For all we know these parts all come out of one factory and get rebranded throughout the industry.

Don't think your research of EE and EGW went deep enough...........

 

https://egwguns.com/meet-egw

 

[Seakphotog]

3 hours ago, bootcamp said:

Thanks!  Will most likely choose between EGW or EE.  I'm just not sure it'll be matched to my frame and i'd rather risk fitting the parts myself.

Cool. Good luck and have fun with it!

[Seakphotog]

1 hour ago, zzt said:

Well, I have experience with three of the kits mentioned.   I started with Cylinder and Slide kits.  They are really from EE.  I always have to adjust the hammer hooks, because they are too short at an average of .016".  Other than that, they are fine.  I like their hammer strut better than EGW's.

 

I have used many EGW kits.  They are 'kits" in name only.  They are individual parts dropped into one bag and called a 'kit'.  That being said, they are perfect.  Every one I've installed on good frames required no fitting, except for the HD disco.  That almost always needs fitting.  If the holes are not in the correct places, you'll have fitting to do.  For the last 4 or 5 Trigger jobs I used individual EGW parts with their extended sear.  I put a True Radius on it and cut a secondary. 

 

Just for fun I tried a Brazos trigger kit in a Brazos frame.  Dropped right in with no fitting.  It doesn't come with a disco, so order one with.

 

I get dealer pricing on both the EGW and EE kits, but prefer to use the EGW, because of the long nose sear.  Also, if you fit a TS to an EGW sear and it ever wears out, you can fit an EE sear, then refit the safety.  If you wear it out again, buy a Harrison Design TR sear and refit the safety. 

Great info.  Thanks!

[TONY BARONE]

EE makes the lightest parts along with the Koenig hammer.  Koenig hammer, extreme ultra light sear and disconnect and Colt sear spring have given me 18 oz. triggers lasting with no work for in excess of 75,000 rounds. Of course they have to be mated properly. The EE sear is a work of art.

 

[DrewM]

If you want the 'best' trigger none of the kits have the best stuff all together.  And just to be aware of, most of the differences are so minor I'll bet dollars to donuts that if we blindfolded the majority of folks, they couldn't tell the difference between this, a drop in kit, and a "good" factory setup (assuming all are set to the same weight). 

But if you want to humble brag to everybody....

• You want an EE or Koenig hammer if you want the lightest thing possible.
• You want an extra long sear cut down with a true radius tool (or just buy one from John Harrison)
• You want an EGW ball head disco - hopefully it is slight too big for the disco hole or fits 'just right' (the little bit of movement in the disco is felt in the trigger finger - if this fits well it will feel better than having a super-light disco's found in other kits)
• You want an EGW Titanium strut and EGW Ti mainspring plug
• You want a C&S sear spring
• You want whatever trigger tickles your fancy
• You'll probably need a new thumb safety fit the new hammer/sear combo

And then you want to do the following - the idea here is to remove as much friction between the pieces as possible, but you don't want to polish at a level that is removing any material (which is technically impossible) - so there is a give and take, honestly removing rough edges/micro-burrs/etc gets you a huge amount of the way there.  

• You want to polish up every surface on the disco and sear that touch's something else until you can see yourself in it - you can ignore the sear nose if you don't know how to inspect/verify it has good contact with the hammer.  
• You want to mirror polish the back of the trigger bow
• You want to mirror polish the middle leg of the sear spring
• You want to polish the sides of the hammer that contact the frame.
• You want to polish the inside of the frame where the sear and hammer run.
• You want to polish the inside of the mainspring housing.
• You want to polish the trigger track.
• You want lots of lube for all of it.  

Install it all, set a proper amount of pre-travel, set the sear spring to a weight you want, set the over-travel - I like to be conservative with all of these, when you're going for record breaking splits you aren't going to notice a super tight pre and over travel setup, so don't risk a malfunction (or worse) chasing after it.  Also, I don't go crazy low on trigger weight, a really good trigger makes up for some weight.  

 

Do all the safety checks you've heard of - you want to check that you the hammer will hit the half cock hooks, that it has good safety/sear engagement, etc - and then run only 2 rounds in a magazine for the first dozen or so rounds you burn down, then go to 3 rounds in a magazine, etc.  

I don't want to discount the whole 'it's all gotta be fit together' angle, but the reality is that the majority of frames these days are scary in-spec, it doesn't hurt to measure to be sure.  But the majority of 'drop in' kits will work fine in the 'majority' of frames.   The next step past the above happens when you can truly measure the hammer hooks and the size of the sear nose.  

[Effectus Magis Per Minor]

On 5/9/2024 at 12:50 PM, davsco said:

haven't tried either, but i put these in a couple of my 2011s and they're pretty nice

 

https://www.1911store.com/Tuned-Trigger-Group-BCG-Brazos-Pro.aspx

 

 

I am also using two of the Brazos kits along with their polished disconnector and really like them. They have held up great, with 2.5ish lbs trigger pull.

[ltdmstr]

12 hours ago, DrewM said:

If you want the 'best' trigger none of the kits have the best stuff all together.  And just to be aware of, most of the differences are so minor I'll bet dollars to donuts that if we blindfolded the majority of folks, they couldn't tell the difference between this, a drop in kit, and a "good" factory setup (assuming all are set to the same weight). 

But if you want to humble brag to everybody....

• You want an EE or Koenig hammer if you want the lightest thing possible.
• You want an extra long sear cut down with a true radius tool (or just buy one from John Harrison)
• You want an EGW ball head disco - hopefully it is slight too big for the disco hole or fits 'just right' (the little bit of movement in the disco is felt in the trigger finger - if this fits well it will feel better than having a super-light disco's found in other kits)
• You want an EGW Titanium strut and EGW Ti mainspring plug
• You want a C&S sear spring
• You want whatever trigger tickles your fancy
• You'll probably need a new thumb safety fit the new hammer/sear combo

And then you want to do the following - the idea here is to remove as much friction between the pieces as possible, but you don't want to polish at a level that is removing any material (which is technically impossible) - so there is a give and take, honestly removing rough edges/micro-burrs/etc gets you a huge amount of the way there.  

• You want to polish up every surface on the disco and sear that touch's something else until you can see yourself in it - you can ignore the sear nose if you don't know how to inspect/verify it has good contact with the hammer.  
• You want to mirror polish the back of the trigger bow
• You want to mirror polish the middle leg of the sear spring
• You want to polish the sides of the hammer that contact the frame.
• You want to polish the inside of the frame where the sear and hammer run.
• You want to polish the inside of the mainspring housing.
• You want to polish the trigger track.
• You want lots of lube for all of it.  

Install it all, set a proper amount of pre-travel, set the sear spring to a weight you want, set the over-travel - I like to be conservative with all of these, when you're going for record breaking splits you aren't going to notice a super tight pre and over travel setup, so don't risk a malfunction (or worse) chasing after it.  Also, I don't go crazy low on trigger weight, a really good trigger makes up for some weight.  

 

Do all the safety checks you've heard of - you want to check that you the hammer will hit the half cock hooks, that it has good safety/sear engagement, etc - and then run only 2 rounds in a magazine for the first dozen or so rounds you burn down, then go to 3 rounds in a magazine, etc.  

I don't want to discount the whole 'it's all gotta be fit together' angle, but the reality is that the majority of frames these days are scary in-spec, it doesn't hurt to measure to be sure.  But the majority of 'drop in' kits will work fine in the 'majority' of frames.   The next step past the above happens when you can truly measure the hammer hooks and the size of the sear nose.  

 

Wow!  Just so much wrong here.  Aside from polishing all contact areas, etc., which is a given, cutting and polishing the hammer hooks and sear angles is the single biggest factor for getting light, smooth, consistent, long-lasting trigger.  Those angles mean more than the ridiculous light springs most people use to get the pull weights down.  Also, many top level smiths use EGW hammers, sears, discos, and Colt or Wolff springs to produce awesome triggers.  And have been doing so for many years.  Titanium struts and mainspring caps are gimmicks, and usually fail over time.  It's just junk that's to be avoided and has zero impact on pull weight or anything else.  True radius isn't the best way, or really even the proper way, to cut a sear.  And on and on.  But, however you want to do it.  

Edited Friday at 10:43 PM by ltdmstr
typo

[DrewM]

7 hours ago, ltdmstr said:

Wow!  Just so much wrong here.  Aside from polishing all contact areas, etc., which is a given, cutting and polishing the hammer hooks and sear angles is the single biggest factor for getting light, smooth, consistent, long-lasting trigger.  Those angles mean more than the ridiculous light springs most people use to get the pull weights down.  Also, many top level smiths use EGW hammers, sears, discos, and Colt or Wolff springs to produce awesome triggers.  And have been doing so for many years.  Titanium struts and mainspring caps are gimmicks, and usually fail over time.  It's just junk that's to be avoided and has zero impact on pull weight or anything else.  True radius isn't the best way, or really even the proper way, to cut a sear.  And on and on.  But, however you want to do it.  

 

 

The problem is that the majority of folks don't know how nor have the tools available to properly cut, polish and then measure proper sear angles, hammer hooks, etc.  You are correct that those are the most critical in getting the mythical 'perfect trigger', most of the rest is a bunch of small 1% differences that just add up to make a small difference.  It's also a touchy subject to get into the nitty gritty details, I really don't want somebody busting out their have-Dremel-me-gunsmith and polishing the nose of their sear and hammer hooks and then wonder why they made an NFA item.

 

The other angle is that the majority of 'drop in' kits are cut and 'polished' quite well out of the box, all that I have seen/measured have all been cut properly but are relatively conservative in terms of how much of the sear is cut and how big the hammer hooks are.  

 

And nowhere did I say anything bad about EGW, Colt, Wolff, etc they all make quality parts (well, Colt is hit or miss), but the statement was about 'the best', not who makes quality parts.  

As for TI struts and other items, yes they are gimmicky, yes they make the ever so slightest difference, yes they will probably break sooner than a proper steel part.  Same with most of the rest of the stuff - the uber light extreme super-duper-litespeed-blah-blah hammer is going to fail quicker than a normal one, and makes no difference in pull weight or trigger feel.

 

And yes, a true radius cut is not the JMB proper way to cut a sear, but a huge chunk of things done in a 1911/2011 are not the 'proper way'...whatever that means anymore.  But as you noted about other parts, many top level smiths use true radius cut sears to make awesome triggers, and have been doing so for many years.  

[MoNsTeR]

Why on earth would a titanium hammer strut be more likely to fail than a steel one? Titanium is very strong!

 

Has anyone ever actually seen a broken hammer strut of any kind? Or a mainspring cap for that matter! An indestructible part if ever there was one.